NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[bradybunch]

The regular season MVP is great. Big accomplishment.

But I'd still take a completely healthy Curry over Luka and Jokic in the playoffs because of his off ball movement and overall impact off the ball.

Curry draws so much attention and makes the simple passes that lead to constant 4 on 3 play. (Doesn't play for the assist)

[Duke4life831]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I just want to get this straight.

14/11/16 on 110 TS% (yes not a typo)

In a win is considered a trash game and this was an example why he shouldn’t be mvp? That’s the argument you’re making?

[BigGargamel]

Page 52 is beautiful. Historically amazing stats in black and white that you just can’t argue against.

[Kurtz]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I just want to get this straight.

14/11/16 on 110 TS% (yes not a typo)

In a win is considered a trash game and this was an example why he shouldn’t be mvp? That’s the argument you’re making?

I'm going to back Mickey on this one as I had a parlay going that needed 25 points from the Joker last night

Really though, he had a total of 5 fga last night. It does seem that with everyone healthy Denver is much deeper and more balanced than the Mavs, and that Joker really doesn't care about the award.

[Sgt Major]

I know Mickey from another forum. The guy is obsessed with Jokic's personal stats and that's the only thing he cares about, so whenever Nikola casually strolls through a game, even though he's dishing dimes left and right, this guy goes nuts. He prefers taking 30 shots over winning and making teammates better.

Can't understand how he's not getting tired after years and years of the same complaints and Jokic still not giving a rat's ass about his numbers.

[Duke4life831]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I just want to get this straight.

14/11/16 on 110 TS% (yes not a typo)

In a win is considered a trash game and this was an example why he shouldn’t be mvp? That’s the argument you’re making?

I'm going to back Mickey on this one as I had a parlay going that needed 25 points from the Joker last night

Really though, he had a total of 5 fga last night. It does seem that with everyone healthy Denver is much deeper and more balanced than the Mavs, and that Joker really doesn't care about the award.

Haha ya I can see you being angry with Jokic if you had him in fantasy or on a parlay.

But ya I cant see how anyone can watch that game last night and come away thinking, ouch that one hurts him in the MVP race. You know those triple double on 110TS% in wins is a pretty big stain for your MVP resume haha.

[Inspektor1312]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I kinda get where you're coming from, but you can't say that a guy who put up 14/11/16 on 100% shooting played like "trash", especially in a blowout lmao
Games like these are a great opportunity for him to take a step back and let his recovering teammates find their rhythm (Jamal had his season high)

are u sure ur a Nuggets fan? did u watch the game or are u going by the boxscore?

Jokic had an insane game, his defense was the among the best i've ever seen from him - he was disrupting everything
on offense, he was constantly attacking, rushing the ball from the backcourt, setting screen after screen, a motion offense fueled by screens and handoffs, seriously sweet stuff tbh

his attacks were delibarate constantly putting pressure on the defense, creating holes and passing lanes, commanding a double team and finding the open man (and boy did he)
yes, he was clearly more intreseted in finding guys in their shooting spots (or for an easy one) and not with scoring

so what?

he literally had one of the best games I could think of, just so much fun to watch

I find it impossible to believe that u actually watched the game and ur take is that he had a "meh" game
or that it's ok that his level of effort was meh because it was a very easy game

Lakers actually fought pretty well with what they had and Jokic was putting max effort
no way u watched the game

When did I say that he had a "meh" game? I'm not really sure how you and Cobra misunderstood my post, since I was literally laughing at the statement that Jokić had a "trash" game. Y'all seem very sensitive for some reason.
I said that I "kinda understand" where Mickey is coming from, because I like when Nikola takes more shots, and I know that NBA media (and by extension fans) value ppg over everything else. And I did watch the game, he was playing at like 30% effort on offense (which is a compliment).

P.S I'm not a fan of the Nuggets per se, I've been following them because of Jokić. In a vacuum, I'd say my favorite NBA team is SAS. (what I'd give to see Jokić under coach Pop...)

[iggymcfrack]

I know Mickey from another forum. The guy is obsessed with Jokic's personal stats and that's the only thing he cares about, so whenever Nikola casually strolls through a game, even though he's dishing dimes left and right, this guy goes nuts. He prefers taking 30 shots over winning and making teammates better.

Can't understand how he's not getting tired after years and years of the same complaints and Jokic still not giving a rat's ass about his numbers.

I actually thought maybe he was just joking and everyone here was missing the joke or something. Honestly though, the way Jokic is playing is absolutely perfect to help the team. He’s finding his teammates all through the regular season, building their confidence for when it really matters. Joker already knows he can score at will, there’s no reason to try to make a big deal out of it in January when he could be making Murray feel like he’s back to his old self or making Bruce Brown feel like an important part of the offense or convincing KCP he’s one of the best shooters in the NBA.

The time will come for Jokic to take over scoring the ball, and that’s gonna be in a Game 5 against the Warriors or a Game 6 against the Grizzlies or a Game 7 against the Celtics. For now, he’s doing the absolute perfect thing to make this offense reach the highest level possible.

[timO]

Is Doncic, mavs are lottery team without him.

Jokic needs +60 win to 3peat, denver is on pace for only 54-55 wins.

[Duke4life831]

Is Doncic, mavs are lottery team without him.

Jokic needs +60 win to 3peat, denver is on pace for only 54-55 wins.

Does win total matter? Say he finishes with averaging the 25ppg triple double on 70 TS% and Denver wins 55 games and is the #1 seed. I think that gets him locked in for the award.

Assuming everyone continues their level of play, I think if Denver finishes with the #1 seed in the West, its Jokic's award.

[AleksandarN]

Is Doncic, mavs are lottery team without him.

Jokic needs +60 win to 3peat, denver is on pace for only 54-55 wins.

Does win total matter? Say he finishes with averaging the 25ppg triple double on 70 TS% and Denver wins 55 games and is the #1 seed. I think that gets him locked in for the award.

Assuming everyone continues their level of play, I think if Denver finishes with the #1 seed in the West, its Jokic's award.

Him having averaging a triple double in the process then I can see him winning the mvp.

[rocketsfan100]

Top 5 passers and playmaking guards, Wings and Centers in the nba currently

1:Jokic
2:Harden
3:Haliburton
4:Luka
5:Lebron

Yes I still have Lebron because of his insane court vision
On the bubble
Sabonis
Trae Young
Mike Conley
Morant



Yes a 7 foot 1 not very coordinated dude from Serbia is the best passer playmaker in the NBA

[Cubbies2120]

Is Doncic, mavs are lottery team without him.

Maybe he should stop taking back2back's off due to 'soreness'...how is out of shape fatboi Jokic not sore? He is, he plays through it...

Jokic needs +60 win to 3peat, denver is on pace for only 54-55 wins.

They're at a 70% win rate in games that he plays. 60 is such a weird cutoff...for example if they win 58, and the next best team in the West wins 50...it's not enough?

Hmm...

[MarcusBrody]

Top 5 passers and playmaking guards, Wings and Centers in the nba currently

1:Jokic
2:Harden
3:Haliburton
4:Luka
5:Lebron

Yes I still have Lebron because of his insane court vision
On the bubble
Sabonis
Trae Young
Mike Conley
Morant



Yes a 7 foot 1 not very coordinated dude from Serbia is the best passer playmaker in the NBA

Not very coordinated? Jokic might not be graceful, but he's one of the most coordinated players you'll ever see. That's pretty much his major advantage over players: exceptional coordination. It's why he can swipe balls from drivers, put a spinning pass right in the perfect place, and hit those insane, awkward looking flip shots.

[Mickey8]

Jokic can three peat if his team ends up as one of the two teams with the best record in the league. I think that will be hard task for them, right now Denver is playing bunch of home games , so they are winning games that they are supposed to win, but the schedule will get tougher soon enough and Denver is an average road team this season. Personally I don't have him as the MVP candidate this season , but he's still ranking high,so Denver needs to be the best ranking team in the Western Conference at least , to have a chance to win it this season.

[Mickey8]

Top 5 passers and playmaking guards, Wings and Centers in the nba currently

1:Jokic
2:Harden
3:Haliburton
4:Luka
5:Lebron

Yes I still have Lebron because of his insane court vision
On the bubble
Sabonis
Trae Young
Mike Conley
Morant



Yes a 7 foot 1 not very coordinated dude from Serbia is the best passer playmaker in the NBA

Not very coordinated? Jokic might not be graceful, but he's one of the most coordinated players you'll ever see. That's pretty much his major advantage over players: exceptional coordination. It's why he can swipe balls from drivers, put a spinning pass right in the perfect place, and hit those insane, awkward looking flip shots.

He has great coordination as you said. He lacks any explosiveness, so people immediately jump to conclusion that he's somehow clumsy, awkward etc. He has great post up moves,spin moves, can drive the basketball etc.

[Mickey8]

The regular season MVP is great. Big accomplishment.

But I'd still take a completely healthy Curry over Luka and Jokic in the playoffs because of his off ball movement and overall impact off the ball.

Curry draws so much attention and makes the simple passes that lead to constant 4 on 3 play. (Doesn't play for the assist)

I think if Curry was on Denver team last season instead of Jokic, Denver would not made it to the post season.

[Sgt Major]

Jokic is a once-in-a-lifetime basketball phenomenon. As a back-to-back MVP who would probably win the award a couple more times if it were decided by voter-fatigue-proof robots instead of narrative-seeking human beings, he’s straight up, without equivocation, the best player on the planet. 

A hyperefficient scorer who makes everyone around him (at least) 15 percent better, Jokic is Denver’s compass. He humbles opposing big men with ox-like strength, then dismantles help defenders as they offer support with passes that transcend anticipation. With his back to the basket and his neck bent just enough to see the entire court, he detects what others can’t until the following morning’s film session. 

The sport has never seen anyone like Jokic. He’s an unconventional combination of grace, mystique, and persistent motion. The only box left to check will come in the playoffs, when his (underrated and misunderstood) defense will be tested by teams that wrap half their gameplan around trying to exhaust and expose him in space. But so long as his top teammates are healthy, that strategy is likely to be a shallow one. 

https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

[Petergrifindor]

Again, the MVP right now should be Doncic. He is out there busting his ass to make Dallas win a place in the playoffs, and he is playing better than anyone.

In comparison Jokic is just coasting. Of course it is amazing that he can be this good without giving 100%, and I agree that it might even be a good strategy for Denver that he defers to his teammates right now and save strength for the playoffs; after all the Nuggets can afford that.

But this kind of effort doesn't deserve the MVP when there is other candidate that is playing as good if not better than him while scoring 9!!! more points per game, and putting his whole team on his back night after night. It's way easier to be ultra efficient when you can win games while taking only 5 shots as the leader of the team.

To be honest, I don't see it as a close race. It's not the same caliber of a season.

[Mickey8]

That is some god awful list from the Ringer. While I dont think Jokic is the MVP front runner this season, Denver without him would be in play in zone, if not worse . He's still most valuable player on his team by far.