Starting a new team today, young KG or young Jokic

dygaction · Post #1 » by **dygaction** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:59 pm

Both are available at 20 yr old and you can draft one to start a new team.

To me they are the two opposite players. Jokic in an offensive genius with below average defense among ATG players while KG is a defensive genius with below average offense among ATG players (apparently this is controversial to some). Who do you want and why?

Colbinii · Post #2 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:19 pm

Jokic defense isn't below average compared to ATG centers--its horrible.

KG's offense is much closer to Russell/Hakeem than Jokic defense.

Statlanta · Post #3 » by **Statlanta** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:22 pm

Young KG had more skills to work with which is why he was drafted high.

Give me him just for the novelty of seeing him in this era

dygaction · Post #4 » by **dygaction** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:29 pm

Colbinii wrote:Jokic defense isn't below average compared to ATG centers--its horrible.

KG's offense is much closer to Russell/Hakeem than Jokic defense.

The thing is offense and defense do not carry the same weight. One great offensive player can almost guarantee great offense, like Magic, Nash, Dirk, Harden, Luka and Jokic. They do not miss playoffs unless injured. A great defensive player is not enough to guarantee good defense, or a good bottom of a team, like Rodman, Ben Wallace, Mutombo, Gobert, or KG's TWolves.

Do you think KG could carry last year's Nuggets to #6? Would Jokic miss playoffs with the TWolves? Would Jokic win championships in 08 with Allen and Pierce on his side?

SeattleJazzFan · Post #5 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:37 pm

jokic is just a better player. that's no knock on kg, but jokic is just that great.

maxwellcu · Post #6 » by **maxwellcu** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:48 pm

I have a seriously difficult time imagining KG "shutting down" players like Jokic or Giannis or Embiid, all three of which are bigger than KG and also either more skilled (Jokic, Embiid) or much more athletic (Giannis). If he can't stop guys like that, then where is his advantage? I don't see it.

parsnips33 · Post #7 » by **parsnips33** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:05 am

maxwellcu wrote:I have a seriously difficult time imagining KG "shutting down" players like Jokic or Giannis or Embiid, all three of which are bigger than KG and also either more skilled (Jokic, Embiid) or much more athletic (Giannis). If he can't stop guys like that, then where is his advantage? I don't see it.

Value of a player like KG is not in shutting a guy down, it's in making it harder to score for the whole team

maxwellcu · Post #8 » by **maxwellcu** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:12 am

parsnips33 wrote:
maxwellcu wrote:I have a seriously difficult time imagining KG "shutting down" players like Jokic or Giannis or Embiid, all three of which are bigger than KG and also either more skilled (Jokic, Embiid) or much more athletic (Giannis). If he can't stop guys like that, then where is his advantage? I don't see it.

Value of a player like KG is not in shutting a guy down, it's in making it harder to score for the whole team

I appreciate that but the guys I mentioned are quite heliocentric. I don't know. I think KG struggles to slow down a well constructed team lead by any of them.

KGtabake · Post #9 » by **KGtabake** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:21 am

Yeah i won't vote on that one lol
Can't pick one.

Post #10 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:21 am

Colbinii wrote:KG's offense is much closer to Russell/Hakeem than Jokic defense.

Odd pairing, Russell and Hakeem, offensively. Olajuwon was considerably better than Russell on that end of the floor...

MyUniBroDavis · Post #11 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:43 am

tsherkin wrote:
Colbinii wrote:KG's offense is much closer to Russell/Hakeem than Jokic defense.

Odd pairing, Russell and Hakeem, offensively. Olajuwon was considerably better than Russell on that end of the floor...

He probably meant defense

MyUniBroDavis · Post #12 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:47 am

I’m extremely low on him in an all time sense compared to most, but KG today would be incredible

The fact that Jokic’s playoff defense thus far has been historically bad and KGs is historically good and would only be better now would prolly make me pick him, just a safer choice

eminence · Post #13 » by **eminence** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:00 am

KG, pretty straightforward for me, the only player I'd take over him in a hypothetical like this is LeBron.

I agree that the offense of the best players is more valuable (in the modern game) than the defense of the best players and I think that applies here. But KGs offense is miles ahead of Jokics defense.

dygaction · Post #14 » by **dygaction** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:00 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:I’m extremely low on him in an all time sense compared to most, but KG today would be incredible

The fact that Jokic’s playoff defense thus far has been historically bad and KGs is historically good and would only be better now would prolly make me pick him, just a safer choice

Why do you think KG would be more impactful defensively nowadays? With 5 out, the area to cover is so much larger, which limits one player's impact.

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:06 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Colbinii wrote:KG's offense is much closer to Russell/Hakeem than Jokic defense.

Odd pairing, Russell and Hakeem, offensively. Olajuwon was considerably better than Russell on that end of the floor...

He probably meant defense

Maybe. Problematic phrasing in the end, I guess.

Post #16 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:06 am

dygaction wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:I’m extremely low on him in an all time sense compared to most, but KG today would be incredible

The fact that Jokic’s playoff defense thus far has been historically bad and KGs is historically good and would only be better now would prolly make me pick him, just a safer choice

Why do you think KG would be more impactful defensively nowadays? With 5 out, the area to cover is so much larger, which limits one player's impact.

Maybe because teams and people in general have a better appreciation for the value of the type of D he brought instead of being a classical shot blocker?

maxwellcu · Post #17 » by **maxwellcu** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:16 am

Come to think of it, the most interesting thing about a hypothetical matchup here is whether or not KG would be foolish enough to pull his usual antics on NJ. :lol:

Post #18 » by **Texas Chuck** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:18 am

If I'm starting a team, its definitely Jokic. It's just easier to build a consistent contender around an elite offensive player than a defensive player in the mold of KG. Remember in Minnesota those were very average defenses. Just having KG doesn't make you a defensive power.

Now if I'm going to Process it until I get my offensive star, then maybe you do take KG. And KG is certainly going to be easier to Process with than Jokic who will raise your floor too high too quickly.

Colbinii · Post #19 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:19 am

tsherkin wrote:
Colbinii wrote:KG's offense is much closer to Russell/Hakeem than Jokic defense.

Odd pairing, Russell and Hakeem, offensively. Olajuwon was considerably better than Russell on that end of the floor...

OP said this:

Jokic in an offensive genius with below average defense among ATG players while KG is a defensive genius with below average offense among ATG players

My statement is clear: KG's offense is significantly closer to that of other All-time great big men than Jokic's defense.

Colbinii · Post #20 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:21 am

Texas Chuck wrote:If I'm starting a team, its definitely Jokic. It's just easier to build a consistent contender around an elite offensive player than a defensive player in the mold of KG. Remember in Minnesota those were very average defenses. Just having KG doesn't make you a defensive power.

Now if I'm going to Process it until I get my offensive star, then maybe you do take KG. And KG is certainly going to be easier to Process with than Jokic who will raise your floor too high too quickly.

What?

KG had the Wolves at 40-42 in his 2nd year, Age 20 season...

Hard to imagine one of the most emotional player in NBA History wanting to "process it".

Starting a new team today, young KG or young Jokic, both 20 yr old