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Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1421 » by Ruzious » Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:36 pm

trast66 wrote:Its been my position that based on Tommy's past that he will not trade Kuzma unless he is asked by Kyle to do so. They want to resign him and KP for $60M+/yr combined. They would need to trade Gafford and not sure could keep Rui (both by next years deadline unless they are in top 4 in the east Ted may then pay tax).

At this trade deadline the only potential deal Tommy will consider is Barton.

We know they won't keep keep everyone - keeping Beal, Kuzma, and Rui would put a losing team into the lux tax (assuming they keep Porz - which is pretty safe). You gotta figure they're going to keep Rui for the market he's created, so that leaves either Beal or Kuz as the likely gone guys. So it's up to Tommy to actually make a trade. Otherwise, we'll probably lose Kuzma for nothing. I don't care much for Kuzma (thought that was a pretty shot last night), but it doesn't make sense to lose him for nothing when they could have gotten something.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1422 » by payitforward » Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:21 pm

TGW wrote:If that is true, it is obvious that this front office is as terrible as its predecessor.

And yes PIF, "effing moron" applies here.

Look...
I'd find it kind of hard to argue for the competency of this franchise. & since I've already argued, many times, that it is the opposite -- incompetent (at least at the single most important responsibility of a FO: managing the draft effectively). IOW, I would be an unlikely candidate to defend Ted & his troops.

"...as terrible as its predecessor..."?
Well, I suppose if you manage to make no progress whatever in 4 full seasons, then you deserve any criticism you get. Certainly, I can't think of a FO that has performed worse than the Wizards in that stretch of time. We're still heading for 35 wins -- not significantly better than we were when Tommy took the reins.

OTOH, we did face some one of a kind problems. That's why the expression "effing moron" applied to one guy, Tommy Sheppard, rubbed me the wrong way & caused me to over-react.

For two reasons: the first is that I think the source of our problems is, almost exclusively, Ted Leonsis not Tommy.

The second is that Tommy managed to unload the worst contract in the league (John Wall's contract) without it hurting us too much -- & then managed to move Russ in a very creative & complicated deal.

To put it another way, he turned John Wall's awful contract & a heavily protected R1 pick into KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, & an unprotected R1 pick. That was utterly brilliant; there's no other word for it.

He also traded a guy we absolutely had to get rid of & managed to snag KP & a R2 pick for the guy -- while getting rid of another awful contract (Bertans' -- a problem wch admittedly he had created himself). Also brilliant.

Not to mention that he signed Wright, acquired Gafford at low cost, & found Jordan Goodwin.

IOW, almost exclusively, Tommy's failure has been in managing the draft -- & for better or worse I put a lot of that failure on Ted -- though Tommy has to share the blame too.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1423 » by AFM » Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:08 pm

payitforward wrote:
TGW wrote:If that is true, it is obvious that this front office is as terrible as its predecessor.

And yes PIF, "effing moron" applies here.

Look...
I'd find it kind of hard to argue for the competency of this franchise. & since I've already argued, many times, that it is the opposite -- incompetent (at least at the single most important responsibility of a FO: managing the draft effectively). IOW, I would be an unlikely candidate to defend Ted & his troops.

"...as terrible as its predecessor..."?
Well, I suppose if you manage to make no progress whatever in 4 full seasons, then you deserve any criticism you get. Certainly, I can't think of a FO that has performed worse than the Wizards in that stretch of time. We're still heading for 35 wins -- not significantly better than we were when Tommy took the reins.

OTOH, we did face some one of a kind problems. That's why the expression "effing moron" applied to one guy, Tommy Sheppard, rubbed me the wrong way & caused me to over-react.

For two reasons: the first is that I think the source of our problems is, almost exclusively, Ted Leonsis not Tommy.

The second is that Tommy managed to unload the worst contract in the league (John Wall's contract) without it hurting us too much -- & then managed to move Russ in a very creative & complicated deal.

To put it another way, he turned John Wall's awful contract & a heavily protected R1 pick into KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, & an unprotected R1 pick. That was utterly brilliant; there's no other word for it.

He also traded a guy we absolutely had to get rid of & managed to snag KP & a R2 pick for the guy -- while getting rid of another awful contract (Bertans' -- a problem wch admittedly he had created himself). Also brilliant.

Not to mention that he signed Wright, acquired Gafford at low cost, & found Jordan Goodwin.

IOW, almost exclusively, Tommy's failure has been in managing the draft -- & for better or worse I put a lot of that failure on Ted -- though Tommy has to share the blame too.



I've heard this a hundred times on here with zero proof. We have no idea how handson of an owner Ted is. He certainly doesn't speak or act like he is very involved.
Matter of fact, this past summer Ted said that "Tommy has a complete green light. Every move he's made, I've never said no". That's a quote. Did you know this?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1424 » by Frichuela » Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:23 pm

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1425 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:07 am



Troy Haliburton says the Wizards are going to be buyers and sellers at the deadline.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1426 » by payitforward » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:52 am

AFM wrote:
payitforward wrote:
TGW wrote:If that is true, it is obvious that this front office is as terrible as its predecessor.

And yes PIF, "effing moron" applies here.

Look...
I'd find it kind of hard to argue for the competency of this franchise. & since I've already argued, many times, that it is the opposite -- incompetent (at least at the single most important responsibility of a FO: managing the draft effectively). IOW, I would be an unlikely candidate to defend Ted & his troops.

"...as terrible as its predecessor..."?
Well, I suppose if you manage to make no progress whatever in 4 full seasons, then you deserve any criticism you get. Certainly, I can't think of a FO that has performed worse than the Wizards in that stretch of time. We're still heading for 35 wins -- not significantly better than we were when Tommy took the reins.

OTOH, we did face some one of a kind problems. That's why the expression "effing moron" applied to one guy, Tommy Sheppard, rubbed me the wrong way & caused me to over-react.

For two reasons: the first is that I think the source of our problems is, almost exclusively, Ted Leonsis not Tommy.

The second is that Tommy managed to unload the worst contract in the league (John Wall's contract) without it hurting us too much -- & then managed to move Russ in a very creative & complicated deal.

To put it another way, he turned John Wall's awful contract & a heavily protected R1 pick into KCP, Kuzma, Harrell, & an unprotected R1 pick. That was utterly brilliant; there's no other word for it.

He also traded a guy we absolutely had to get rid of & managed to snag KP & a R2 pick for the guy -- while getting rid of another awful contract (Bertans' -- a problem wch admittedly he had created himself). Also brilliant.

Not to mention that he signed Wright, acquired Gafford at low cost, & found Jordan Goodwin.

IOW, almost exclusively, Tommy's failure has been in managing the draft -- & for better or worse I put a lot of that failure on Ted -- though Tommy has to share the blame too.



I've heard this a hundred times on here with zero proof. We have no idea how handson of an owner Ted is. He certainly doesn't speak or act like he is very involved.
Matter of fact, this past summer Ted said that "Tommy has a complete green light. Every move he's made, I've never said no". That's a quote. Did you know this?

I read "I haven't said no to anything." Not the rest of it.

But, if the whole of that is true, literally, dating back to Tommy taking the reins, then sure... it's on Tommy Sheppard not Ted Leonsis.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1427 » by Jay81 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:59 am

i hate this team. This team has made me hate what i used to love. I hate how Ted runs things and dosent care. I hate how Tommy messes up everything and cant draft to save his life. I hate how our fans cheer when we win. I hate when we win...i hate when we score baskets and try to win. The only thing that will get me back is a full tank. Trading Beal and Kuzma and winning the lottery. F yall
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1428 » by payitforward » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:10 am

Jay81 wrote:i hate this team. This team has made me hate what i used to love. I hate how Ted runs things and dosent care. I hate how Tommy messes up everything and cant draft to save his life. I hate how our fans cheer when we win. I hate when we win...i hate when we score baskets and try to win. The only thing that will get me back is a full tank. Trading Beal and Kuzma and winning the lottery. F yall

Yeah but come on... how do you really feel?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1429 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:25 am

Jay81 wrote:i hate this team. This team has made me hate what i used to love. I hate how Ted runs things and dosent care. I hate how Tommy messes up everything and cant draft to save his life. I hate how our fans cheer when we win. I hate when we win...i hate when we score baskets and try to win. The only thing that will get me back is a full tank. Trading Beal and Kuzma and winning the lottery. F yall

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1430 » by payitforward » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:32 am

payitforward wrote:
AFM wrote:...this past summer Ted said that "Tommy has a complete green light. Every move he's made, I've never said no". That's a quote. Did you know this?

I read "I haven't said no to anything." Not the rest of it.

It's this, right?
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TBH, I don't know what to make of this.

For example -- trading Wall was entirely Tommy's idea? Had nothing to do with Ted?

In the end, however, it doesn't really matter. We're in Tommy's 4th season as GM, & we're no better than we were on the day Ernie was fired.

No matter how many terrific things I find that Tommy has done, unless the team gets better he's a failure.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1431 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jan 13, 2023 5:25 am

Jay81 wrote:i hate this team. This team has made me hate what i used to love. I hate how Ted runs things and dosent care. I hate how Tommy messes up everything and cant draft to save his life. I hate how our fans cheer when we win. I hate when we win...i hate when we score baskets and try to win. The only thing that will get me back is a full tank. Trading Beal and Kuzma and winning the lottery. F yall


Welcome to the party. Ive been banging my head against the wall ever since, ironically enough, Wall stumbled out of the shower and blew out his Achilles four years ago. Screaming every offseason and deadline for these ----ing morons to get a clue and blow it up, and trade Beal while he had max value for picks in a legit draft class to no effect whatsoever (of course). 35+ years of supporting these losers preceding that w/no pay off whatsoever (and to be fair, after the Webber trade I pretty much lost my faith entirely that anything would ever change, so other than the Wall-Beal rebuild, I've had very little confidence in anything ever since).

These guys don't deserve our attention, our interest, or our dollars. Luckily I give them very little of the 3. Nothing will ever change until these idiots sell or die. They are so mind bogglingly stupid it beggars' belief. Don't give them any attention whatsoever if you can avoid it, if you can't help yourself, so be it, but don't encourage them and their idiocy.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1432 » by TGW » Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:08 am

Jay81 wrote:i hate this team. This team has made me hate what i used to love. I hate how Ted runs things and dosent care. I hate how Tommy messes up everything and cant draft to save his life. I hate how our fans cheer when we win. I hate when we win...i hate when we score baskets and try to win. The only thing that will get me back is a full tank. Trading Beal and Kuzma and winning the lottery. F yall


Welcome back, Ji. :lol:
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1433 » by 9 and 20 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:42 am

How can you not blame Terd for this. The buck gotta stop somewhere, and it stops with the orange man. The other orange man, Teddy the Greek.

Can't blame Grunfeld for not quitting if Terd's not firing him. Can't blame Tommy for being out of his depth if he didn't hire himself. Can't blame for Beal for taking the quarter billion when it's offered.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1434 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:49 pm

Tommy is not a bad gm by any means if he was given the keys I'm sure he would do a lot better.


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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1435 » by Dat2U » Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:35 pm

gambitx777 wrote:Tommy is not a bad gm by any means if he was given the keys I'm sure he would do a lot better.


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:nonono:

A roster thats up against a luxury tax and well below .500. None of the draft picks standout and the most recent lottery pick is the 4th SG on the roster.

But lets give him the keys lol!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1436 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:48 pm

Dat2U wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Tommy is not a bad gm by any means if he was given the keys I'm sure he would do a lot better.


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:nonono:

A roster thats up against a luxury tax and well below .500. None of the draft picks standout and the most recent lottery pick is the 4th SG on the roster.

But lets give him the keys lol!
You nor I have any idea how much Ted messes with the draft or the scouting department. I am 90% sure Tommy would have traded beal if left up to him. I don't put that stuff on Tommy. He's made some very good moves and he's dealing with a very hands on owner.

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1437 » by Dark Faze » Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:54 pm

Just a reminder that Sengun was picked one spot after Kispert lul.

I find it weird that people think the first we moved for Wall won't convey eventually:

first round pick protected top 14 in 2023, top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026

Any season where we chase mediocrity will be a season that threatens losing the pick. Next year in particular I could see us landing at 13/14.

Hell even this year. If the Bulls and Raptors decide to be sellers at the deadline, that'll push us into the play in, and it wouldn't take much to get a matchup of the Pacers or Knicks. If you win both those play in games then you lose the pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1438 » by TGW » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:23 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Just a reminder that Sengun was picked one spot after Kispert lul.

I find it weird that people think the first we moved for Wall won't convey eventually:

first round pick protected top 14 in 2023, top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026

Any season where we chase mediocrity will be a season that threatens losing the pick. Next year in particular I could see us landing at 13/14.

Hell even this year. If the Bulls and Raptors decide to be sellers at the deadline, that'll push us into the play in, and it wouldn't take much to get a matchup of the Pacers or Knicks. If you win both those play in games then you lose the pick.


Exactly. Some of the TS supporters are claiming this pick will never convey. Why wouldn't it? They have a middle build strategy which means their goal is to convey that pick.

Again, the Sheppard supporters have a disconnect from reality.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1439 » by Frichuela » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:49 pm

TGW wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Just a reminder that Sengun was picked one spot after Kispert lul.

I find it weird that people think the first we moved for Wall won't convey eventually:

first round pick protected top 14 in 2023, top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026

Any season where we chase mediocrity will be a season that threatens losing the pick. Next year in particular I could see us landing at 13/14.

Hell even this year. If the Bulls and Raptors decide to be sellers at the deadline, that'll push us into the play in, and it wouldn't take much to get a matchup of the Pacers or Knicks. If you win both those play in games then you lose the pick.


Exactly. Some of the TS supporters are claiming this pick will never convey. Why wouldn't it? They have a middle build strategy which means their goal is to convey that pick.

Again, the Sheppard supporters have a disconnect from reality.


Agreed. This pick is highly likely to convey sooner than later...hence trading Kuzma and tanking the rest of the season is key!

And even better if a trade is arranged with the Knicks in which we offload Kuzma+Wright or Morris and get our pick back+ Quickley + 1 extra year of Fournier.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XLIV 

Post#1440 » by Frichuela » Fri Jan 13, 2023 4:56 pm

Trading Kuzma and tanking is so key as there is a lot of talent in the top half of the lottery in the upcoming draft: a generational talent (French freak), a likely all-star (Scoot) plus another bunch of good prospects in the top 10 where hopefully Tommy can not miss.

And I only say trading Kuzma because this idiotic front office and ownership group won't contemplate a Beal trade...

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