Political Roundtable Part XXXI

[Pointgod]

Horrible Democrats bringing inflation down.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Bonscott]

Democrats when Trump had secret documents without proper security "String him up"
Democrats when the idiot in the WH does almost the same thing but much worse "Meh, it's ok no big deal"
2024 can't get here fast enough

[TGW]

I love when stuff like this happens. Then I can watch the pompom waiving liberals make excuses, deflect, use whataboutisms, and show their overall hypocrisy. No accountability whatsoever.

[Kanyewest]

Initially, the case against Trump is different given his unwillingness to hand over the documents initially compared to Biden. Probably the more culpable offense for Trump is his role in January 6th which may be tougher to get criminal charges.

[pancakes3]

"does almost the same thing but much worse." - Trump has hacked your speech pattern.

and tgw, you really don't know what the word hypocrisy means. or at least you're choosing to use it incorrectly. the term you're searching for is "double standard" but i get that screaming "HYPOCRITE" makes you feel better so... go off i guess.

but yall right. biden's evil. libs dumb. its' definitely the guy who is wasting taxpayer dollars fighting a lawsuit that's already dragged on for 6 months, after spending 2 years of refusing to return documents that has the moral high ground. Not the guy who's already returned the documents despite finding out about the docs last week. very smart, guys. definitely thought it through. not speaking out of your a$$ at all and definitely very critical thinkers with intact, unbroken brains who can't rationally cope with their emotions.

[bsilver]

I think this finishes Biden as a candidate in 2024. Even if he had nothing to do with having the documents in his possession, that's all we'll hear about, like Hillary with the mail server, which may have cost her the election. She certainly deserved the criticism. With Biden, have to wait and see his culpability.

[dckingsfan]

Then I can watch the pompom waiving liberals make excuses

Link? Who has said this isn't a sloppy and bad look for Biden?

deflect

I think the deflection is on your side trying to tie Biden to your guy Trump.

whataboutisms

No difference? Biden has already returned the documents and cooperated with the Justice Department? Or maybe that is lost on you in your support for Trump?

hypocrisy

Hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess.

Which virtues do the evil liberals profess but not believe in the case of these documents? Any links or are you just making this up? Most everything I am reading with respect to liberals says that this is a bad and sloppy look for Biden. In this thread alone you see folks who say he shouldn't run in 2022 because of this.

No accountability whatsoever.

See Special Council appointed.

Basically, I see your post as another drive-by trying to protect your guy Trump.

[Pointgod]

Then I can watch the pompom waiving liberals make excuses

Link? Who has said this isn't a sloppy and bad look for Biden?

deflect

I think the deflection is on your side trying to tie Biden to your guy Trump.

whataboutisms

No difference? Biden has already returned the documents and cooperated with the Justice Department? Or maybe that is lost on you in your support for Trump?

hypocrisy

Hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess.

Which virtues do the evil liberals profess but not believe in the case of these documents? Any links or are you just making this up? Most everything I am reading with respect to liberals says that this is a bad and sloppy look for Biden. In this thread alone you see folks who say he shouldn't run in 2022 because of this.

No accountability whatsoever.

See Special Council appointed.

Basically, I see your post as another drive-by trying to protect your guy Trump.

TGW has had his brain broken by following rose Twitter and grifters like Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore. He sounds like an insane person arguing against a position that he’s entirely made up.

Literally no Liberal has spoken out against Biden being investigated. No Liberal has been against the special council. Just my personal prediction but this WILL be a nothingburger because there’s zero evidence that goes to intent or the fact that Biden even knew there were classified documents. Once they were found his lawyers REACHED out to the national archives to tell them about the documents.

By all means if there’s any wrong doing by Biden then guess what, prosecute him just like Trump should be prosecuted for his obvious criminal activity. The guy purposely took 15 boxes of classified documents, refused to return them, lied about returning them and had his lawyers perjure themselves, obstructed Justice in the process and continues to make it obvious that he knowingly took classified documents by being a complete idiot. For a guy who claims he’s not a Trump supporter TGW is always twisting himself into knots to low key defend him.

[Pointgod]

I think this finishes Biden as a candidate in 2024. Even if he had nothing to do with having the documents in his possession, that's all we'll hear about, like Hillary with the mail server, which may have cost her the election. She certainly deserved the criticism. With Biden, have to wait and see his culpability.

Wrong. This won’t be in the news cycle two weeks from now. And it’s not something that Republicans actually want to draw attention to because if you believe this should end Biden then there’s no way in hell you can excuse actual criminal behavior from Trump, much worse behavior. By 2024, Trump might actually be facing trial while running for President.

[TGW]

"does almost the same thing but much worse." - Trump has hacked your speech pattern.

and tgw, you really don't know what the word hypocrisy means. or at least you're choosing to use it incorrectly. the term you're searching for is "double standard" but i get that screaming "HYPOCRITE" makes you feel better so... go off i guess.

I know exactly what I was saying, but thanks for trying to incorrectly correct me. HYPOCRITES...but if you want to add double standard, go right ahead. Both apply in this situation.

[dckingsfan]

Then I can watch the pompom waiving liberals make excuses

Link? Who has said this isn't a sloppy and bad look for Biden?

deflect

I think the deflection is on your side trying to tie Biden to your guy Trump.

whataboutisms

No difference? Biden has already returned the documents and cooperated with the Justice Department? Or maybe that is lost on you in your support for Trump?

hypocrisy

Hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess.

Which virtues do the evil liberals profess but not believe in the case of these documents? Any links or are you just making this up? Most everything I am reading with respect to liberals says that this is a bad and sloppy look for Biden. In this thread alone you see folks who say he shouldn't run in 2022 because of this.

No accountability whatsoever.

See Special Council appointed.

Basically, I see your post as another drive-by trying to protect your guy Trump.

TGW has had his brain broken by following rose Twitter and grifters like Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore. He sounds like an insane person arguing against a position that he’s entirely made up.

Literally no Liberal has spoken out against Biden being investigated. No Liberal has been against the special council. Just my personal prediction but this WILL be a nothingburger because there’s zero evidence that goes to intent or the fact that Biden even knew there were classified documents. Once they were found his lawyers REACHED out to the national archives to tell them about the documents.

By all means if there’s any wrong doing by Biden then guess what, prosecute him just like Trump should be prosecuted for his obvious criminal activity. The guy purposely took 15 boxes of classified documents, refused to return them, lied about returning them and had his lawyers perjure themselves, obstructed Justice in the process and continues to make it obvious that he knowingly took classified documents by being a complete idiot. For a guy who claims he’s not a Trump supporter TGW is always twisting himself into knots to low key defend him.

If it walks like a duck...

[Pointgod]

Link? Who has said this isn't a sloppy and bad look for Biden?

I think the deflection is on your side trying to tie Biden to your guy Trump.

No difference? Biden has already returned the documents and cooperated with the Justice Department? Or maybe that is lost on you in your support for Trump?

Hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess.

Which virtues do the evil liberals profess but not believe in the case of these documents? Any links or are you just making this up? Most everything I am reading with respect to liberals says that this is a bad and sloppy look for Biden. In this thread alone you see folks who say he shouldn't run in 2022 because of this.

See Special Council appointed.

Basically, I see your post as another drive-by trying to protect your guy Trump.

TGW has had his brain broken by following rose Twitter and grifters like Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore. He sounds like an insane person arguing against a position that he’s entirely made up.

Literally no Liberal has spoken out against Biden being investigated. No Liberal has been against the special council. Just my personal prediction but this WILL be a nothingburger because there’s zero evidence that goes to intent or the fact that Biden even knew there were classified documents. Once they were found his lawyers REACHED out to the national archives to tell them about the documents.

By all means if there’s any wrong doing by Biden then guess what, prosecute him just like Trump should be prosecuted for his obvious criminal activity. The guy purposely took 15 boxes of classified documents, refused to return them, lied about returning them and had his lawyers perjure themselves, obstructed Justice in the process and continues to make it obvious that he knowingly took classified documents by being a complete idiot. For a guy who claims he’s not a Trump supporter TGW is always twisting himself into knots to low key defend him.

If it walks like a duck...

He gets mighty defensive when he gets called a Trump supporter so I’ll protect his feelings. I’m just I don’t believe I’ve ever even see this guy criticize Trump in the past 6 years. Like legitimately criticize him for something. I could be wrong but I don’t think he had much to say Jan 6th or you know months ago when it was confirmed Trump knowingly took classified docs

[Zonkerbl]

What does TGW stand for? He's just a reactionary, tearing down other people's work without doing anything constructive himself. A lightweight. A nobody. A hater.

[popper]

I didn't know that VP's or retired diplomats or senators were allowed to take confidential documents after they leave government. I know presidents are in coordination with the National Archives. Maybe someone here knows.

[pancakes3]

"does almost the same thing but much worse." - Trump has hacked your speech pattern.

and tgw, you really don't know what the word hypocrisy means. or at least you're choosing to use it incorrectly. the term you're searching for is "double standard" but i get that screaming "HYPOCRITE" makes you feel better so... go off i guess.

I know exactly what I was saying, but thanks for trying to incorrectly correct me. HYPOCRITES...but if you want to add double standard, go right ahead. Both apply in this situation.

it would be HYPOCRITICAL to criticize republicans for voting for Trump, but ended up voting for Trump themselves. it's a DOUBLE STANDARD when dems criticize Trump for behavior that they justify for Biden.

Because dems aren't the ones who kept confidential documents, dems are not engaging in hypocrisy; if anyone, Biden would be the hypocrite as he's the one who took the criticized action. Biden supporters are applying a double standard.

but words, facts, and nuance don't seem to really carry any significance with you. you've made up your mind already, and you have seemingly, closed your mind to ideas inconsistent with whatever's already swimming inside your head.

[pancakes3]

I didn't know that VP's or retired diplomats or senators were allowed to take confidential documents after they leave government. I know presidents are in coordination with the National Archives. Maybe someone here knows.

there's no distinction between president and vice president - neither are permitted to retain confidential documents after leaving office and both presidents and vice presidents are in coordination with the National Archives re: document retention.

[pancakes3]

I think this finishes Biden as a candidate in 2024. Even if he had nothing to do with having the documents in his possession, that's all we'll hear about, like Hillary with the mail server, which may have cost her the election. She certainly deserved the criticism. With Biden, have to wait and see his culpability.

Wrong. This won’t be in the news cycle two weeks from now. And it’s not something that Republicans actually want to draw attention to because if you believe this should end Biden then there’s no way in hell you can excuse actual criminal behavior from Trump, much worse behavior. By 2024, Trump might actually be facing trial while running for President.

this is the problem of being the party of "when they go low, we go high" and constantly trying to situate the dem party as the one of moral superiority.

if dems ran less on "orange man bad" this wouldn't be as big an issue. if dems ran on "wage equality, job creation, anti-corporation" they can keep hammering on that. but sticking with "orange man bad" just invites, rightfully or wrongfully, criticisms of "joe bad too"

at least that's how it appears to "moderates" and swing voters anyway. it's pretty easy for you and me to see the differences between the situations but yet ::gestures at the thread:: look at all these pearl clutchers

[bsilver]

I didn't know that VP's or retired diplomats or senators were allowed to take confidential documents after they leave government. I know presidents are in coordination with the National Archives. Maybe someone here knows.

Is this a real question or do you already know the answer?
Anyway, I was at the CIA for 18 years, so know a lot about the rules. Your use of “confidential” is ambiguous. There’s confidential in the general sense and then there’s CONFIDENTIAL as one of the 3 main classifications that also include SECRET and TOP SECRET. If some material is classified then it will have one of these ratings. The classification should be plainly seen at the top of the document. There may be additional markings such as SCI (special compartmentalized information) or NOFORN (no non-US citizens). Just because someone has a TOP SECRET clearance doesn’t mean they can see all TOP SECRET information if there are additional markings like SCI. There’s also the concept of “need to know”. If you don’t need to see information for your job, then you shouldn’t be looking at it, but I don’t believe it’s against the law if you have the clearance.

No one is entitled to take classified information and store it in an insecure location. It has to be stored in a secure location called a SCIF (sensitive compartmented information facility). Any classified information that is removed from a SCIF has to be specially wrapped and marked so that if it falls in the wrong hands that person can know it should be turned in. Also if classified information is removed from a SCIF, it cannot be left unattended.

Biden and Trump were clearly breaking the law. However, intent is also important. Classified information may have been taken and stored unintentionally. If so, prosecution is far less likely.

[Pointgod]

What does TGW stand for? He's just a reactionary, tearing down other people's work without doing anything constructive himself. A lightweight. A nobody.

Correct

[Zonkerbl]

I didn't know that VP's or retired diplomats or senators were allowed to take confidential documents after they leave government. I know presidents are in coordination with the National Archives. Maybe someone here knows.

This is an interesting question.

https://www.archives.gov/isoo/faqs

"How does Classified Information end up in Private Collections?

Former government officials and contractors have been known to retain papers containing classified national security information and eventually donate them to private archives. Often, it is not until these records are formally processed that archivists realize a collection contains classified information. If an archive or a library has not received Federal approval to store classified materials, continuing to store the records in an unapproved area could be endangering national security. In these instances, the institution should contact the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) at the National Archives and arrange for these records to be securely stored. ISOO will maintain temporary custody of the records through the declassification process."

Apparently this is a thing that happens a lot. You're not *allowed* to retain such papers but you are not necessarily committing a crime by holding onto them by accident. The archives routinely work with people who have discovered they are unintentionally holding classified information they should not and as long as they cooperate, everything is fine.

What Trump did was not a big deal at first, being POTUS is a fast paced, chaotic job, you generate and hold a lot of classified documents, and Trump is a particularly scatterbrained and incompetent person, so it is, well, not ok, but not a crime that he had a bunch of classified docs where he was working. He should have been a better leader and taken it seriously and insisted his staff handle the docs better but he didn't, because he's an idiot. Fine. That wasn't the problem. The archives bent over backwards to accommodate him. It was his months and months of continual refusal to cooperate that was the problem.

Which also would have been fine if they hadn't found oodles of docs after the raid. If he insisted he didn't have any docs and he was right, again, no big deal. Or if the ones they found weren't top secret, that also would have been fine. It was the lying for months and months about having highly sensitive docs that was the problem.