Should the Utah Jazz go for Josh Giddey?

[Inigo Montoya]

Jazz should trade Luari, Conley and Clarkson and tank to get Victor or Scoot. Get more picks, they aren't going anywhere with this roster. Currently in 9th place, just bottom out and move on.

Conley and Clarkson should be moved but Markkanen isn't going anywhere, he's a building block.

[BlazersBroncos]

OKC is going to pivot to trying to win games, not accumulate more draft capital. Josh isnt going anywhere - kid started slow but is killing it since early DEC.

I think the roles are reversed, OKC is in a position to use draft capital for a roster improvement as they already have a franchise guy in SGA - Utah should be the team moving players for draft capital.

Salary ballast and 3-4 FRP for Lauri.

[TacoLord]

lol OKC doesn't want Sexton and that contract.

[Syugo]

Jeez I'm super surprised at some of the replies here. My first thought was OKC says no, not the other way around. Lots of you seem pretty down on a 20 year old 6 foot 8 pg doing 15/8/6 playing alongside shai who is pretty ball dominant.

Again, it’s not because what he’s doing isn’t impressive, and he’s quite a good playmaker. But he has major deficiencies that aren’t able to be fixed with more reps. His first step will always remain very slow, which really curbs his potential as a lead guard in the league. He can’t penetrate and collapse a defense. He’s not good in the post and his weakness there makes him have to take low-efficiency floaters.

He can be a better shooter, but he has a pretty hard cap on his ceiling because of his lack of quickness, poor separation ability, and poor defense.

reads like a 2017 scouting report on luka

Just kidding of course, its no comparison at all but I really think his age should really play a part in evaluating whether or not he can improve. He is 20. I can see him getting better year over year and I disagree about your remarks about what can or can't be worked on. The way he plays the game and his height are things that cannot be taught; more efficient shooting, a more athletic body, and more knowledgeable defense are all things that can be and will be worked on. I can see Kidd as a good comparison.

Here's 20y/o giddey vs 21y/o Kidd

[jazzfan1971]

Same idea but cheaper: How about Jose Alvarado? I liked what I saw out of him when I saw him play. He looks to be having a sophomore slump so maybe he could be had rather cheaply?

Just one of my weird targets.

[QingJames]

Jeez I'm super surprised at some of the replies here. My first thought was OKC says no, not the other way around. Lots of you seem pretty down on a 20 year old 6 foot 8 pg doing 15/8/6 playing alongside shai who is pretty ball dominant.

Again, it’s not because what he’s doing isn’t impressive, and he’s quite a good playmaker. But he has major deficiencies that aren’t able to be fixed with more reps. His first step will always remain very slow, which really curbs his potential as a lead guard in the league. He can’t penetrate and collapse a defense. He’s not good in the post and his weakness there makes him have to take low-efficiency floaters.

He can be a better shooter, but he has a pretty hard cap on his ceiling because of his lack of quickness, poor separation ability, and poor defense.

Not sure if you watched him lately but he's been very good since Dec 1st. Averaging 16.6 PPG 8.4 RPG 5.8 APG next to a ball dominant SGA. He's stopped taking weak floaters and has made an emphasis to get to the rim and it's been paying off. Made a decent leap as a scorer. He's made dramatic shooting improvements as well.

Hes also just 20 years old, so not sure what you were expecting.

Well let's break down how he's getting there. Since December first he's shooting 42% from 3, but this is on a mere 3.4 attempts per game. This season he has averaged 3.2 attempts per game. This means on the whole, he has gone from making 1.1 shots on 3.2 attempts per game to making 1.4 on 3.4 attempts, which is good enough for an 8(!)% increase in his statistical 3 point shooting. Additionally, this increase is almost entirely coming from catch and shoot attempts. He has not been better at self-creating perimeter shots over the last 20 games. Given the extremely low volume, I'm not taking this past month and a half as a sign he has suddenly become an elite 3-point shooter.

Giddey's self-creation in general has been quite poor in the stretch you're citing. About 75% of his shots come from within the arc, and of that 75%, 15% of his shots come after 7 or more dribbles and he has converted those at an abysmal 30% from the field. Not what you're looking for in a lead ball handler.

His pull-ups and close shots (<10 feet) over the past 1.5 months are in line with his season averages. 36.6% on pull-ups (bad) vs 33.5% on the season. 54% on close shots vs 55% on the season. He's also still averaging 2.5 turnovers in those games, which is a positive comedown from the 3.1 he's averaging on the season, but still troublesome as (by your own admission) he is playing off ball more.

Basically Giddey's past month and a half have been fueled by slightly better shooting than normal, but the numbers don't show any serious or believable improvements in his areas of limitation. Maybe the better question to ask is what kind of player you think Giddey will be in the league? If you're asking a team to pay multiple firsts for this prospect, you should be able to project him as a star or top-end started, right? I just don't see it. He has deficiencies which make him a poor lead guard and he's not a good enough shooter to be a combo guard. I don't see the path to stardom for Giddey unless he somehow becomes a lot more athletic.

[payton2kemp]

Same idea but cheaper: How about Jose Alvarado? I liked what I saw out of him when I saw him play. He looks to be having a sophomore slump so maybe he could be had rather cheaply?

Just one of my weird targets.

Pelicans are in win now mode. They have plenty of picks was well from the Lakers and Bucks. Don't see them trading for picks.

[3toheadmelo]

Again, it’s not because what he’s doing isn’t impressive, and he’s quite a good playmaker. But he has major deficiencies that aren’t able to be fixed with more reps. His first step will always remain very slow, which really curbs his potential as a lead guard in the league. He can’t penetrate and collapse a defense. He’s not good in the post and his weakness there makes him have to take low-efficiency floaters.

He can be a better shooter, but he has a pretty hard cap on his ceiling because of his lack of quickness, poor separation ability, and poor defense.

Not sure if you watched him lately but he's been very good since Dec 1st. Averaging 16.6 PPG 8.4 RPG 5.8 APG next to a ball dominant SGA. He's stopped taking weak floaters and has made an emphasis to get to the rim and it's been paying off. Made a decent leap as a scorer. He's made dramatic shooting improvements as well.

Hes also just 20 years old, so not sure what you were expecting.

Well let's break down how he's getting there. Since December first he's shooting 42% from 3, but this is on a mere 3.4 attempts per game. This season he has averaged 3.2 attempts per game. This means on the whole, he has gone from making 1.1 shots on 3.2 attempts per game to making 1.4 on 3.4 attempts, which is good enough for an 8(!)% increase in his statistical 3 point shooting. Additionally, this increase is almost entirely coming from catch and shoot attempts. He has not been better at self-creating perimeter shots over the last 20 games. Given the extremely low volume, I'm not taking this past month and a half as a sign he has suddenly become an elite 3-point shooter.

Giddey's self-creation in general has been quite poor in the stretch you're citing. About 75% of his shots come from within the arc, and of that 75%, 15% of his shots come after 7 or more dribbles and he has converted those at an abysmal 30% from the field. Not what you're looking for in a lead ball handler.

His pull-ups and close shots (<10 feet) over the past 1.5 months are in line with his season averages. 36.6% on pull-ups (bad) vs 33.5% on the season. 54% on close shots vs 55% on the season. He's also still averaging 2.5 turnovers in those games, which is a positive comedown from the 3.1 he's averaging on the season, but still troublesome as (by your own admission) he is playing off ball more.

Basically Giddey's past month and a half have been fueled by slightly better shooting than normal, but the numbers don't show any serious or believable improvements in his areas of limitation. Maybe the better question to ask is what kind of player you think Giddey will be in the league? If you're asking a team to pay multiple firsts for this prospect, you should be able to project him as a star or top-end started, right? I just don't see it. He has deficiencies which make him a poor lead guard and he's not a good enough shooter to be a combo guard. I don't see the path to stardom for Giddey unless he somehow becomes a lot more athletic.

So you're basically down on him because he's not a scorer who can create his own shot at all times? That's never who he's been. To expect that from Giddey is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Giddey changed his jumper since OKC hired Chip Engelland (coach who fixed Kawhi and Tony Parkers jumper) Changing your jumper is obviously going to come with some struggles to start the season. But now you're starting to see the results. And no one is calling him an elite shooter, but he's made big improvements. He's even shooting 80% from the line now which is a big improvement over last year.

So even though Giddey has been putting up stellar numbers next to a ball dominant player like SGA, you're down on him because he can't hit jumpers off the dribble, even though he's made improvements everywhere else in his game.

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It's funny cause I was actually low on Giddey in his draft, but he absolutely exceeded my expectations. He's been getting better as the season goes on. If he keeps improving at this rate, he can be an all star one day for sure.

[slick_watts]

yeah, the 'december 1' run from giddey he's shooting dream percentages from everywhere which has amounted to improved scoring efficiency (for him) but still below league average. QingJames points out, correctly, that this is due to low 3pt volume (and FT volume). 40% from 3 and 90% from the line aren't really that impactful if you're attempting 3 threes and 2 free throws per game.

the shots that giddey creates for himself are difficult and he's not converting a high percentage of those even during this stretch. i find that in any discussion on giddey with a fan of his always takes the goal posts from whether or not giddey is good in an absolute sense (which, he is not, yet) to whether or not giddey is good relative to expectations (which, imo, does not matter).

[hippesthippo]

OKC isn’t flipping productive players for pure draft picks at this stage and Utah doesn’t have any guys that would be an upgrade, so I think they would decline.

I don't think that Giddey is the best fit next to SGA, but I think the people commenting that he has a low ceiling are wrong. I think he'd show out on a team like Utah. I'd want proper compensation if I were OKC and that means a young starter+. OKC should be looking to compete next year IMO, so I agree that flipping him for just picks makes little sense.

What about a package built around Vanderbilt? I'm pretty sure Poku's future MVP run died off this season. Vandy might be a nice fit next to Chet and feels like an OKC kind of guy.

SGA
Jalen Williams
Lu Dort
Vanderbilt
Chet

[celticfan42487]

Meh

[MrGoat]

How many picks would Ainge want to take on Giddey's contract?

[Nate505]

Jazz should trade Luari, Conley and Clarkson and tank to get Victor or Scoot.

Oh yeah, trade an all-star level player on insane efficiency to hopefully move up from a 2% chance to hit the lottery to a 14% chance. Brilliant.

[Nate505]

Salary ballast and 3-4 FRP for Lauri.

The point of getting picks is to get a player like Lauri, not to trade him for a bunch of picks that may or may not get you a player of his caliber.

I swear, this NBA mindset is **** bizarro world sometimes.

[WillyJakkz]

Defeats the purpose of what Ainge is doing, he wouldn't trade picks to get Giddy

[3toheadmelo]

yeah, the 'december 1' run from giddey he's shooting dream percentages from everywhere which has amounted to improved scoring efficiency (for him) but still below league average. QingJames points out, correctly, that this is due to low 3pt volume (and FT volume). 40% from 3 and 90% from the line aren't really that impactful if you're attempting 3 threes and 2 free throws per game.

the shots that giddey creates for himself are difficult and he's not converting a high percentage of those even during this stretch. i find that in any discussion on giddey with a fan of his always takes the goal posts from whether or not giddey is good in an absolute sense (which, he is not, yet) to whether or not giddey is good relative to expectations (which, imo, does not matter).

You seem to be in the minority then that does not think he has been good

[BlazersBroncos]

Salary ballast and 3-4 FRP for Lauri.

The point of getting picks is to get a player like Lauri, not to trade him for a bunch of picks that may or may not get you a player of his caliber.

I swear, this NBA mindset is **** bizarro world sometimes.

But the OP literally did the exact same but in reverse. Why not call that out as well.

OKC isnt moving Josh for picks. He is one of their cornerstones. As is Lauri in Utah.

[threethehardway]

I don't see the appeal of Josh Giddey as a player.

He's a tall, slow, guard that needs the ball to be effective, but shouldn't have the ball because he isn't a threat to score effectively.

I would be looking to trade Josh Giddey if I was OKC.

On an ideal championship team, Josh Giddey would be used as a utility forward off the bench. He makes a few nice passes here. He helps keeps the offense running. He hits a few corner 3s. He plays 25 minutes a game.

i would not build a team, or an offense around Josh Giddey.

If it wasn't for Shai, Josh Giddey would look like one of the worst players in the league because he really really really really really needs to play with someone that can draw defensive attention and score at will.

And I don't think Shai is a ball dominant guard, he's just better than everyone else on a crappy team whose second best perimeter player is a guy that has the athleticism of a 40 year old YMCA hoops vet.

[payton2kemp]

Jazz should trade Luari, Conley and Clarkson and tank to get Victor or Scoot.

Oh yeah, trade an all-star level player on insane efficiency to hopefully move up from a 2% chance to hit the lottery to a 14% chance. Brilliant.

Jazz are a lottery team. How are you getting another star to play along him.

[bradybunch]

So 20 year old very solid Giddey has peaked, eh?

Oof.

Kid is pretty damn good.