Players you’ve “come around on”

ceiling raiser · Post #1 » by **ceiling raiser** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:52 am

Biggest current player for me is probably Tatum. Didn’t like him the last few years, and preferred Brown, Horford, Smart on the team for a while, but I think he’s clearly one of the best players of this generation and has a tremendous trajectory.

In terms of older guys, have become a fan of Isiah Thomas. Really think he’s a guy who would shine in +/- stats if we had them in his era (though Laimbeer likely would be the best on the team).

Statlanta · Post #2 » by **Statlanta** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:39 am

Devin Booker.

I thought he was empty stats, but clearly he is the only thing with a pulse in Arizona.

rk2023 · Post #3 » by **rk2023** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:44 am

LeBron for me, was by no means a fan during his early Miami tenure but I think I gained a newfound appreciation the very last Heat season - only spiraling upwards since he joined the Cavs in 2014/15. I think seeing the 2015 finals reinforced this for me.

Playing around all the scrutiny and breaking barriers is what does it for me, I think LBJ encapsulates this. To each their own

LukaTheGOAT · Post #4 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:32 am

Kareem-I didn't recognize how good his peak was. Per Backpicks ScoreVal Metric, Kareem has the #1 3-year Scoring Peak ever.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the playoffs from 1974 to 1980 (53 playoff games) scored 28.6 inflation-adjusted points p/75 on +9.9 opp. adjusted efficiency.

When you consider it was a high pace era where Kareem was not benefitting from scoring on fastbreaks as a big, that he played so many minutes and scored at that rate, and efficiently scoring was so hard to come by...

Kareem has a Top 2 scoring prime of all-time and maybe the greatest 1v1 scorer ever, and the GOAT half-court scorer.

Also,

3-year playoff stretches above +2 in ScoreVal

Kareem 7x (10x in RS)
Jordan 7x (7x in RS)
Shaq 7x (7x in RS)
Miller 7x (7x in RS)
West 7x (2x in RS)

Hakeem

From 93-95, the Rockets were about a 1 point better than the defenses they faced in the regular season. But in 57 playoff games, with Hakeem improving his play, Houston was 5.3 points better than the defenses it faced. The Rockets went from basically around a 50-win level team or so during the season, to posting an SRS comparable to a 62-win pace. (Summarized from Backpicks.com article on Hakeem).

Hakeem's improvement offensively from the RS to the PS, has a ton to do with that.

Also:

Hakeem Olajuwon in the 1993 and 1994 postseasons (inflation-adjusted):

➤ 27.6 points/75
➤ 11.8 rebounds/75 (3.0 orb.)
➤ 4.4 assists/75
➤ 1.7 steals/75
➤ 4.2 blocks/75
➤ 57.1% TS% (+4.8 rTS%)
➤ Faced off against -2.4 defenses on average (Just so you know this astronomically high average in terms of the quality of defense)

Also, an older version him showed that he could thrive when giving more talent on the offensive end and it makes me wonder how a younger version of him could potentially look if he got to join up with Barkley and Clyde earlier.

1995-97 Houston Rockets in the PS: +6.7 rORTG (all-time kind of stuff)

46 GP
1 Ring
2 WCFs

Notable Players:
Hakeem Olajuwon
Clyde Drexler
Charles Barkley

95-97 Playoff Scoring:
Hakeem: 28/+4
Clyde: 20/+3

They were surrounded by shooters such as Elie, Horry, Cassell and K. Smith until Chuck came in 97. When healthy, the 97 Rockets team was the best regular season team Hakeem ever played on (57-win pace).

parsnips33 · Post #5 » by **parsnips33** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:59 pm

Donovan Mitchell for me - seriously had my doubts about a super undersized 2 guard. But the guy can flat out score at the highest level

CharityStripe34 · Post #6 » by **CharityStripe34** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:04 pm

Donovan Mitchell. Change of scenery proved that he is a winning player and not just a chucker.

Post #7 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:17 pm

Dwight Powell

Colbinii · Post #8 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:40 pm

CharityStripe34 wrote:Donovan Mitchell. Change of scenery proved that he is a winning player and not just a chucker.

Im confused?

We already knew he was a winning player in Utah given his playoff performances. He also had better regular season success in Utah than he is having in Cleveland.

What exactly did you learn in the first 40 games of this year?

CharityStripe34 · Post #9 » by **CharityStripe34** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:43 pm

Colbinii wrote:
CharityStripe34 wrote:Donovan Mitchell. Change of scenery proved that he is a winning player and not just a chucker.

Im confused?

We already knew he was a winning player in Utah given his playoff performances. He also had better regular season success in Utah than he is having in Cleveland.

What exactly did you learn in the first 40 games of this year?

He was putting up big-time numbers, but it seemed like he was tired of Utah those last two seasons or so. I always thought he was talented but barely tried on defense and apparently hated Gobert, lol.

parsnips33 · Post #10 » by **parsnips33** » Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:49 pm

Colbinii wrote:
CharityStripe34 wrote:Donovan Mitchell. Change of scenery proved that he is a winning player and not just a chucker.

Im confused?

We already knew he was a winning player in Utah given his playoff performances. He also had better regular season success in Utah than he is having in Cleveland.

What exactly did you learn in the first 40 games of this year?

I know it was in the bubble, but his 2020 playoff performance is when things shifted for me. Even at his size, defense can't really turn the faucet off on this guy

dygaction · Post #11 » by **dygaction** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:36 am

Kobe, LeBron, Durant

dooki667 · Post #12 » by **dooki667** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:24 am

Jimmy Butler I didn't blame him as a team cancer or anything I liked him I just thought he was really overated but those finals holy **** srry Jimmy I was wrong

uberhikari · Post #13 » by **uberhikari** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:44 am

Kobe. I used to think he was extremely overrated as an inefficient chucker. But the more I looked into his offense the more impressed I became. I did almost a complete 180 on him over about 5 years. Still think he's highly overrated on defense but that's another story.

Pharmacist · Post #14 » by **Pharmacist** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:44 am

I guess it's Tatum for me as well, wasn't big on him at first. Also kinda Lebron, I never liked James like ever, but realizing that he's 38 now and still performing at such a high level, made me appreciate him more especially since I feel like he's gonna retire at 40.

parsnips33 · Post #15 » by **parsnips33** » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:20 pm

Oh yeah, how could I forget Andrew Wiggins

KGtabake · Post #16 » by **KGtabake** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:45 am

Kyle Lowry.

Post #17 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:52 pm

ceiling raiser wrote:Biggest current player for me is probably Tatum. Didn’t like him the last few years, and preferred Brown, Horford, Smart on the team for a while, but I think he’s clearly one of the best players of this generation and has a tremendous trajectory.

Tatum's a good one. He really still seems more effective than anyone thinks he should be.

For me guys like Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett & Bill Russell are the first guys I think of. People probably rolling their eyes because all this happened over a decade ago, but these were not guys I was always high on.

Post #18 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:53 pm

parsnips33 wrote:Oh yeah, how could I forget Andrew Wiggins

Well, thing is, for most of his NBA career it was objectively correct to say he wasn't all that valuable.

Post #19 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:54 pm

KGtabake wrote:Kyle Lowry.

Similar for Lowry - my impression is still that his attitude early in his career held him back.

Colbinii · Post #20 » by **Colbinii** » Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:04 pm

Steph Curry

I always liked him and his game but for a while thought of him as a Tier 2 Offensive GOAT. I think it is clear [to me] that he is in Tier 1.