The Decision on Fultz?

[JoshuaPotter]

Up until this season I had hopes that Fultz's 3 would return (or at least get closer to his Wash days) and he would be a borderline all star. While his 3 form looks a little better from when he first got here, it's still not great and there's just something preventing him from wanting to shoot it and it crushes our spacing. I think he can still be a nice player and helpful in some situations, but I'm out on him being a long term solution at PG for us.

Just think of all the havoc Paolo and Franz would wreak if defenses had to worry about the 3 from our starting 2 guards.

Put some good shooters in the back court and it will exponentially make the game easier for Paolo/Franz.

+1 It's amazing what we are witnessing. Franz is already a top 10 finisher at the rim in the league. Likewise Paulo has the skill set to choo-choo his way into the lane and draw the foul even though all the and +1 attempts aren't there just yet, he is getting 4-5+ foul calls on the opponents a game. All while Franz is getting better at the 3 ball this year and Paulo seems to have the green light to shoot more in games which I think is helping him as well.

Now let me sell this thread on a world where both our guards were legit 33%+ 3pt shooters.

I suppose this time next year, the opposite can happen, Paulo and Franz could become sharp shooters and that frees up Fultz to slash. Yet, again off the ball is one of his so called weaknesses.

I do like how there is no general consensus that Cole Anthony should ever come close to starter minutes. At least the forum seems to all agree vast majority in that.

[Nyce_1]

Guys that WON'T shoot don't become good shooters. It's critical, IMO, at every level from HS to NBA to have guys taking 3pt shots...I don't mean JJ Reddick '80% of my shots are threes" guys...If you're clearly trying not to take that shot, you are crumbling your team's offensive spacing by shrinking the court. Even a guy shooting 33% has to get the shots up or the rest of the team is handcuffed. I love everything else about Fultz' game and I think he could get his shot back (to an acceptable, if mediocre %) but if a backcourt player won't shoot, he can't make much of a positive impact because opponents are effectively playing 5 against 4 by sagging off him. A 7' post player like Poeltl, for example, can avoid the perimeter shooting, but not a ball handling guard.

I wish him the best but, as well as he's playing now, I'm afraid we're looking at his ceiling and it's no longer good enough for what we are close to becoming as a team.

Question, is there a difference between a guy that "won't " shoot and someone that passes up not-good shots to hunt for better shots?

I have zero issues with his offense. Wide open set 3s, Markelle takes them; but he knows his release is slow and any disruption to his timing & mechanics, he quickly decides to hunt for something better. Even when players sag, he can still get into the paint to set someone else up for a better look.

A 7' poat player can avoid the perimeter and solely eat inside, but in the modern day, if that same 7' C is hitting 3s, that allows wiggle room to not have to rely on 3s from ball-handling guards.

[Def Swami]

Zach Lowe --

3. Markelle Fultz's story isn't over
Three years ago, Fultz was a bust -- the draft-day wager that derailed The Process. More than that, he was a curiosity: How had he forgotten to shoot? Was it an injury? Did he have the yips? The Philadelphia 76ers gave up, and shipped Fultz to the Orlando Magic for a late first-round pick that became Tyrese Maxey.

In the anonymity of Orlando, Fultz played intermittently. He dabbled in long 2s, but he was choosy, his release slow and uncertain. Then he tore his ACL. He seemed destined to fade away -- a mysterious cautionary tale.

But Fultz fought for his career, and now he is getting it back. He is still fast and athletic, with rare ability to change speed within dribbles. (He reminds me of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in that way.) Without a reliable jumper, Fultz had to learn quirkier methods of getting what he wants. He has turned the recesses of the court -- the corners and the baseline -- into his workshop:


Rajon Rondo was a master at that: If teams went under middle pick-and-rolls, he'd shift to the sidelines, where defenses were more likely to go over screens and push him toward the coffin corner. But that gives Fultz a runway -- a short runway to a tight spot, but a runway nonetheless.

He has an array of tricky finishes with either hand. He might slow almost to a stop, and then quick-shoot on the way up before shot-blockers realize what he's up to. Next time down, he might lull the defense with the same kind of deceleration and then burst upward at full force for a power layup. He even has a nascent post game.

The jumper is recovering. Fultz is at 45% on mid-rangers. He shoots 3s now -- and more corner 3s off passes from Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero. Fultz's release is still a bit slow. Defenses concede jumpers and clog everything else.

But Fultz is just 24. There is a pathway to him becoming a viable starting point guard on a good team. I'm not sure I'd bet on that yet, but there was no such pathway a year ago. If he can hit enough mid-rangers at higher volume, there is hope. And given where Fultz was, that is something to pause and admire.

[fendilim]

Zach Lowe --

3. Markelle Fultz's story isn't over
Three years ago, Fultz was a bust -- the draft-day wager that derailed The Process. More than that, he was a curiosity: How had he forgotten to shoot? Was it an injury? Did he have the yips? The Philadelphia 76ers gave up, and shipped Fultz to the Orlando Magic for a late first-round pick that became Tyrese Maxey.

In the anonymity of Orlando, Fultz played intermittently. He dabbled in long 2s, but he was choosy, his release slow and uncertain. Then he tore his ACL. He seemed destined to fade away -- a mysterious cautionary tale.

But Fultz fought for his career, and now he is getting it back. He is still fast and athletic, with rare ability to change speed within dribbles. (He reminds me of Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in that way.) Without a reliable jumper, Fultz had to learn quirkier methods of getting what he wants. He has turned the recesses of the court -- the corners and the baseline -- into his workshop:


Rajon Rondo was a master at that: If teams went under middle pick-and-rolls, he'd shift to the sidelines, where defenses were more likely to go over screens and push him toward the coffin corner. But that gives Fultz a runway -- a short runway to a tight spot, but a runway nonetheless.

He has an array of tricky finishes with either hand. He might slow almost to a stop, and then quick-shoot on the way up before shot-blockers realize what he's up to. Next time down, he might lull the defense with the same kind of deceleration and then burst upward at full force for a power layup. He even has a nascent post game.

The jumper is recovering. Fultz is at 45% on mid-rangers. He shoots 3s now -- and more corner 3s off passes from Franz Wagner and Paolo Banchero. Fultz's release is still a bit slow. Defenses concede jumpers and clog everything else.

But Fultz is just 24. There is a pathway to him becoming a viable starting point guard on a good team. I'm not sure I'd bet on that yet, but there was no such pathway a year ago. If he can hit enough mid-rangers at higher volume, there is hope. And given where Fultz was, that is something to pause and admire.

Fultz has definitely clawed his way back to existence.

But I do believe if he can’t get that 3point jumper or become a respectable shooter, he is just fool’s gold.

No matter how good he can be replicating Rondo’s game, if he doesn’t improve his range like Rondo did, he wont be a championship point gusrd.

[basketballRob]

Guys that WON'T shoot don't become good shooters. It's critical, IMO, at every level from HS to NBA to have guys taking 3pt shots...I don't mean JJ Reddick '80% of my shots are threes" guys...If you're clearly trying not to take that shot, you are crumbling your team's offensive spacing by shrinking the court. Even a guy shooting 33% has to get the shots up or the rest of the team is handcuffed. I love everything else about Fultz' game and I think he could get his shot back (to an acceptable, if mediocre %) but if a backcourt player won't shoot, he can't make much of a positive impact because opponents are effectively playing 5 against 4 by sagging off him. A 7' post player like Poeltl, for example, can avoid the perimeter shooting, but not a ball handling guard.

I wish him the best but, as well as he's playing now, I'm afraid we're looking at his ceiling and it's no longer good enough for what we are close to becoming as a team.

Question, is there a difference between a guy that "won't " shoot and someone that passes up not-good shots to hunt for better shots?

I have zero issues with his offense. Wide open set 3s, Markelle takes them; but he knows his release is slow and any disruption to his timing & mechanics, he quickly decides to hunt for something better. Even when players sag, he can still get into the paint to set someone else up for a better look.

A 7' poat player can avoid the perimeter and solely eat inside, but in the modern day, if that same 7' C is hitting 3s, that allows wiggle room to not have to rely on 3s from ball-handling guards.

The same people that criticize Fultz for his current 533 TS, love Vuc who has a 543 TS for his career.

Fultz is a way better defender.

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[GANGSTERDOG]

Fultz > Duhon
Idk what anyone says

[eyriq]

Fultz > Duhon
Idk what anyone says

Hahahaha I think we could all agree to that! Or at least I'd hope so.

[Audi]

Fultz > Duhon
Idk what anyone says

Hahahaha I think we could all agree to that! Or at least I'd hope so.

Say what you will about DuDuhon, but nobody brought the ball up court butt-first quite like him.

[pepe1991]

Guys that WON'T shoot don't become good shooters. It's critical, IMO, at every level from HS to NBA to have guys taking 3pt shots...I don't mean JJ Reddick '80% of my shots are threes" guys...If you're clearly trying not to take that shot, you are crumbling your team's offensive spacing by shrinking the court. Even a guy shooting 33% has to get the shots up or the rest of the team is handcuffed. I love everything else about Fultz' game and I think he could get his shot back (to an acceptable, if mediocre %) but if a backcourt player won't shoot, he can't make much of a positive impact because opponents are effectively playing 5 against 4 by sagging off him. A 7' post player like Poeltl, for example, can avoid the perimeter shooting, but not a ball handling guard.

I wish him the best but, as well as he's playing now, I'm afraid we're looking at his ceiling and it's no longer good enough for what we are close to becoming as a team.

Question, is there a difference between a guy that "won't " shoot and someone that passes up not-good shots to hunt for better shots?

I have zero issues with his offense. Wide open set 3s, Markelle takes them; but he knows his release is slow and any disruption to his timing & mechanics, he quickly decides to hunt for something better. Even when players sag, he can still get into the paint to set someone else up for a better look.

A 7' poat player can avoid the perimeter and solely eat inside, but in the modern day, if that same 7' C is hitting 3s, that allows wiggle room to not have to rely on 3s from ball-handling guards.

The same people that criticize Fultz for his current 533 TS, love Vuc who has a 543 TS for his career.

Fultz is a way better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Fultz career TS is 50% lol

It was 50% this year up until last 2 games

Since he does not shoot 3s his 2s have to be so much above average to ever come close to league's efficiency.

As for Vuc, last 6 years his TS is well above 57%. This year 60,6% Critics of Vuc efficiency were valid before 2018, his efficiency was dreadful due his mid range. After that he started shooting 3s and cut off long 2s.

[Skybox]

Guys that WON'T shoot don't become good shooters. It's critical, IMO, at every level from HS to NBA to have guys taking 3pt shots...I don't mean JJ Reddick '80% of my shots are threes" guys...If you're clearly trying not to take that shot, you are crumbling your team's offensive spacing by shrinking the court. Even a guy shooting 33% has to get the shots up or the rest of the team is handcuffed. I love everything else about Fultz' game and I think he could get his shot back (to an acceptable, if mediocre %) but if a backcourt player won't shoot, he can't make much of a positive impact because opponents are effectively playing 5 against 4 by sagging off him. A 7' post player like Poeltl, for example, can avoid the perimeter shooting, but not a ball handling guard.

I wish him the best but, as well as he's playing now, I'm afraid we're looking at his ceiling and it's no longer good enough for what we are close to becoming as a team.

Question, is there a difference between a guy that "won't " shoot and someone that passes up not-good shots to hunt for better shots?

I have zero issues with his offense. Wide open set 3s, Markelle takes them; but he knows his release is slow and any disruption to his timing & mechanics, he quickly decides to hunt for something better. Even when players sag, he can still get into the paint to set someone else up for a better look.

A 7' poat player can avoid the perimeter and solely eat inside, but in the modern day, if that same 7' C is hitting 3s, that allows wiggle room to not have to rely on 3s from ball-handling guards.

The same people that criticize Fultz for his current 533 TS, love Vuc who has a 543 TS for his career.

Fultz is a way better defender.

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Absurd comparison and application of a single advanced stat (as usual). Fultz is a Guard. This is 2023, he needs to shoot more. Vuc's role in the ORL offense was far and away the biggest. He took and made a LOT of shots...Fultz makes a high percentage of his shots, but needs to shoot more -even if his % dips a bit. The threat of getting hot from 3 is almost as important as the makes (I said almost).

I love Fultz's game and his story. I'm rooting for him...he needs to (1)take and, hopefully, make more 3's (2)keep up his defensive improvement & intensity (3)figure out why on Earth a guy who fiercely attacks the rim can't get to the line A LOT.

[swarlesbarkley]

I just want to know if he's telling himself not to shoot the wide open 3s (choosing to catch the ball on the run into the lane) or if the coach is telling him not to shoot it.

I never thought him changing form was a mental thing (it clearly wasn't) but now I'm wondering why he's not shooting it now that he's settled into a form.

Go back and watch Wash/Summer League highlights - dude was shooting off curls and step-backs. He's completely taken those shots out of his game now.

Also...
In the ATL game a few weeks ago he shot his Wash form almost from longest 3 range and, of course, made it. Why not shoot it like that all the time? He's obviously more comfortable with that form since he looks for his midrange shot all game.

If he can shoot that shot in the vid 6 inches inside the longest NBA 3, he's able to shoot that form at the corners, at the very least, since corner 3s are 21 inches closer to the hoop than the rest of the 3s.

Make it make sense.

[VFX]

I think the poll results reflect hire the question was worded — what “will” the front office do, rather than what “should” they do.

Will the front office make bad decisions? I don't know, probably.

Should they do certain things to make the team better for the "forseeable future"? Absolutely.

By the way, for anyone claiming people that point out Fultz' glaringly obvious deficiencies are "haters", just know I will gladly eat a full plate of crow if Fultz learns how to to shoot and get to the line. Not directed at you directly Kingdom.

[Last Guardian]

I just want to know if he's telling himself not to shoot the wide open 3s (choosing to catch the ball on the run into the lane) or if the coach is telling him not to shoot it.

I never thought him changing form was a mental thing (it clearly wasn't) but now I'm wondering why he's not shooting it now that he's settled into a form.

Go back and watch Wash/Summer League highlights - dude was shooting off curls and step-backs. He's completely taken those shots out of his game now.

Also...
In the ATL game a few weeks ago he shot his Wash form almost from longest 3 range and, of course, made it. Why not shoot it like that all the time? He's obviously more comfortable with that form since he looks for his midrange shot all game.

If he can shoot that shot in the vid 6 inches inside the longest NBA 3, he's able to shoot that form at the corners, at the very least, since corner 3s are 21 inches closer to the hoop than the rest of the 3s.

Make it make sense.

Very strange. His form changes when he spots up vs shots off the dribble. It may have nothing to do with range after all. I noticed his free throw looks the same as his spot up 3. But anything off the dribble looks fine, even near 3 point range.

[basketballRob]

Question, is there a difference between a guy that "won't " shoot and someone that passes up not-good shots to hunt for better shots?

I have zero issues with his offense. Wide open set 3s, Markelle takes them; but he knows his release is slow and any disruption to his timing & mechanics, he quickly decides to hunt for something better. Even when players sag, he can still get into the paint to set someone else up for a better look.

A 7' poat player can avoid the perimeter and solely eat inside, but in the modern day, if that same 7' C is hitting 3s, that allows wiggle room to not have to rely on 3s from ball-handling guards.

The same people that criticize Fultz for his current 533 TS, love Vuc who has a 543 TS for his career.

Fultz is a way better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Fultz career TS is 50% lol

It was 50% this year up until last 2 games

Since he does not shoot 3s his 2s have to be so much above average to ever come close to league's efficiency.

As for Vuc, last 6 years his TS is well above 57%. This year 60,6% Critics of Vuc efficiency were valid before 2018, his efficiency was dreadful due his mid range. After that he started shooting 3s and cut off long 2s.

Vuc has a career TS of 543 and Fultz TS this season is 533. Pretty similar but I'll give Fultz the edge because he has a winning record and better defense.

You want to compare Vuc's best years to Fultz career TS. Lol



https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/fultz-career-win-percentage

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[swarlesbarkley]

I just want to know if he's telling himself not to shoot the wide open 3s (choosing to catch the ball on the run into the lane) or if the coach is telling him not to shoot it.

I never thought him changing form was a mental thing (it clearly wasn't) but now I'm wondering why he's not shooting it now that he's settled into a form.

Go back and watch Wash/Summer League highlights - dude was shooting off curls and step-backs. He's completely taken those shots out of his game now.

Also...
In the ATL game a few weeks ago he shot his Wash form almost from longest 3 range and, of course, made it. Why not shoot it like that all the time? He's obviously more comfortable with that form since he looks for his midrange shot all game.

If he can shoot that shot in the vid 6 inches inside the longest NBA 3, he's able to shoot that form at the corners, at the very least, since corner 3s are 21 inches closer to the hoop than the rest of the 3s.

Make it make sense.

Very strange. His form changes when he spots up vs shots off the dribble. It may have nothing to do with range after all. I noticed his free throw looks the same as his spot up 3. But anything off the dribble looks fine, even near 3 point range.

True. But if that were the only factor, then why aren't we running WCJ handoffs to Fultz at the 3 for a one or two dribble pop up 3 as opposed to putting him in the corner when he's not initiating the offense. If he can shoot off dribble from anywhere on the court there are plenty of ways to get him those opportunities without the ball in his hands the whole time.

I am an amateur basketball player who has a pretty decent shot, I can't imagine what it's like to have a different shot form based on how I'm initiating the shot or where I am on the court. It's a testament that he's even somewhat successful on 3s and FTs.

[Knightro]

I never thought him changing form was a mental thing (it clearly wasn't)

Are you sure about that?

[pepe1991]

The same people that criticize Fultz for his current 533 TS, love Vuc who has a 543 TS for his career.

Fultz is a way better defender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Fultz career TS is 50% lol

It was 50% this year up until last 2 games

Since he does not shoot 3s his 2s have to be so much above average to ever come close to league's efficiency.

As for Vuc, last 6 years his TS is well above 57%. This year 60,6% Critics of Vuc efficiency were valid before 2018, his efficiency was dreadful due his mid range. After that he started shooting 3s and cut off long 2s.

Vuc has a career TS of 543 and Fultz TS this season is 533. Pretty similar but I'll give Fultz the edge because he has a winning record and better defense.

You want to compare Vuc's best years to Fultz career TS. Lol



https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/fultz-career-win-percentage

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Comments like this remind me why i kept you on ignore list for a year.

Vuc career TS is 54%. Fultz career ts is 50%

Vuc best year is current one, 60,6%. Fultz best year is current one, 53,3%

So at his apsolute best year Fultz true shooting is worst than Vuc's career average.

That doesn't even take in account that Fultz in his life never sniffed near 15 ppg for single season, where Vuc career numbers are 17 ppg -10,5 rpg and 2,8 apg.

"lol" at the end ... nah i can't deal with this level of nonsense, welcome back to ignore list

[basketballRob]

Fultz career TS is 50% lol

It was 50% this year up until last 2 games

Since he does not shoot 3s his 2s have to be so much above average to ever come close to league's efficiency.

As for Vuc, last 6 years his TS is well above 57%. This year 60,6% Critics of Vuc efficiency were valid before 2018, his efficiency was dreadful due his mid range. After that he started shooting 3s and cut off long 2s.

Vuc has a career TS of 543 and Fultz TS this season is 533. Pretty similar but I'll give Fultz the edge because he has a winning record and better defense.

You want to compare Vuc's best years to Fultz career TS. Lol



https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/fultz-career-win-percentage

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Comments like this remind me why i kept you on ignore list for a year.

Vuc career TS is 54%. Fultz career ts is 50%

Vuc best year is current one, 60,6%. Fultz best year is current one, 53,3%

So at his apsolute best year Fultz true shooting is worst than Vuc's career average.

That doesn't even take in account that Fultz in his life never sniffed near 15 ppg for single season, where Vuc career numbers are 17 ppg -10,5 rpg and 2,8 apg.

"lol" at the end ... nah i can't deal with this level of nonsense, welcome back to ignore list

Vuc shot 533 last season.

Vuc has really always been a loser. Fultz is a winner. Vuc should watch how a winner shoots FTs at the end of the Portland game

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[Skybox]

Vuc has a career TS of 543 and Fultz TS this season is 533. Pretty similar but I'll give Fultz the edge because he has a winning record and better defense.

You want to compare Vuc's best years to Fultz career TS. Lol



https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/fultz-career-win-percentage

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Comments like this remind me why i kept you on ignore list for a year.

Vuc career TS is 54%. Fultz career ts is 50%

Vuc best year is current one, 60,6%. Fultz best year is current one, 53,3%

So at his apsolute best year Fultz true shooting is worst than Vuc's career average.

That doesn't even take in account that Fultz in his life never sniffed near 15 ppg for single season, where Vuc career numbers are 17 ppg -10,5 rpg and 2,8 apg.

"lol" at the end ... nah i can't deal with this level of nonsense, welcome back to ignore list

Vuc shot 533 last season.

Vuc has really always been a loser. Fultz is a winner. Vuc should watch how a winner shoots FTs at the end of the Portland game

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To continue this absurd comparison...how do their rebound numbers compare?

[basketballRob]

Comments like this remind me why i kept you on ignore list for a year.

Vuc career TS is 54%. Fultz career ts is 50%

Vuc best year is current one, 60,6%. Fultz best year is current one, 53,3%

So at his apsolute best year Fultz true shooting is worst than Vuc's career average.

That doesn't even take in account that Fultz in his life never sniffed near 15 ppg for single season, where Vuc career numbers are 17 ppg -10,5 rpg and 2,8 apg.

"lol" at the end ... nah i can't deal with this level of nonsense, welcome back to ignore list

Vuc shot 533 last season.

Vuc has really always been a loser. Fultz is a winner. Vuc should watch how a winner shoots FTs at the end of the Portland game

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To continue this absurd comparison...how do their rebound numbers compare?

Sorry, I'm still looking at the win-loss records.

It'll be funny at the end of this season when Fultz leads us to knock the Bulls out of the play-ins.

Vuc fans will be blaming his teammates for like the 13th straight season.



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