ImageImageImage

Trade deadline thread

Moderators: Snakebites, dVs33, Cowology, theBigLip

Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#81 » by Kalamazoo317 » Sun Jan 8, 2023 10:43 pm

Cowology wrote:I'm not sure I even care about the Lakers pick. Westbrook for Bojan/Bagley/Burks/CoJo. Reset the deck. Clear the vets and some future salary. Hopefully he's a bit smarter than Westbrook, but that doesn't mean Ivey can't possibly learn from the veteran former MVP. *shrug* **** it.


What in the world does this accomplish for us? We get rid of all of our reliable vets that can help the young guys learn, we lose the potential of Bagley, to ... open up cap space when we already have a ton and nothing to really spend it on? Why? Like, great trade for the Lakers, but negative value trade for us.
Cowology
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 41,298
And1: 4,739
Joined: Sep 05, 2004

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#82 » by Cowology » Mon Jan 9, 2023 12:56 am

Kalamazoo317 wrote:
Cowology wrote:I'm not sure I even care about the Lakers pick. Westbrook for Bojan/Bagley/Burks/CoJo. Reset the deck. Clear the vets and some future salary. Hopefully he's a bit smarter than Westbrook, but that doesn't mean Ivey can't possibly learn from the veteran former MVP. *shrug* **** it.


What in the world does this accomplish for us? We get rid of all of our reliable vets that can help the young guys learn, we lose the potential of Bagley, to ... open up cap space when we already have a ton and nothing to really spend it on? Why? Like, great trade for the Lakers, but negative value trade for us.
Honestly, just fed up with the complete lack of defense. I'm basically at the point where Cade, Hayes, Diallo, Stewart & Duren are the only players worth keeping. If I could trade Casey I would.
Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#83 » by Kalamazoo317 » Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:15 am

I could understand that. I think a lot of it is just being a young team. But, yeah, Bogie's definitely a minus defender.
Cowology
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 41,298
And1: 4,739
Joined: Sep 05, 2004

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#84 » by Cowology » Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:05 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:I could understand that. I think a lot of it is just being a young team. But, yeah, Bogie's definitely a minus defender.
Yeah, part of it is being young but it's also a reflection of the talent we've acquired and certainly an indictment on our coach.

I'm being overly dramatc and clearly we aren't having a fire sale, but I don't much see the point in having veterans like CoJo, Burks & Bojan. Their "scoring" isn't helping us win games and just from a culture standpoint I'm pushing for a minute restriction on guys who aren't playing hard on the defensive end. That get's complicated with a guy like Bogdonovic who is 33 yrs old and on a $20 mil extension. Moving him makes it easier to hold the young guys accountable for their effort/defense. To a lesser extent that extends to Burks as well.

If we are looking ahead to next year and thinking about who's going to help us win games, I'm still not sure having those guys around is a good idea. At 34 this feels more like Blakes trajectory than Grants. I think we've seen the best of Bojan. And unfortunately we are still further away than we'd like. The Cade injury sets us back, but then depending on how the draft goes we may be looking at another very young piece. With the East strengthening we've got an uphill battle to climb.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with having a couple of vets. I just don't know that any of these guys are the type of veteran leader we actually need. CoJo sure as **** isn't Lindsey Hunter and both BoJan/Burks are really journeymen specialists who belong on the bench of a playoff team. Bagley got wrapped up in my nonsense unfairly because I needed $10 mil to match salaries. I actually do like him despite his flaws.

I dunno, this team needs some grit. I don't think he's the guy, but I understand why somebody would look at Dillion Brooks. More than that though we need some on-court leadership at both ends of the floor. Cade can hopefully take care of the offensive end. He should be able to settle us down and get us those necessary buckets down the stretch. But who's the emotional leader of the team? Who's patrolling guys for things like effort? Right now it's basically a free for all with our vets padding their stats for their next contract and our young guys still looking completely lost in terms of in-game execution.
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 32,945
And1: 9,758
Joined: Jun 22, 2001

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#85 » by bstein14 » Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:17 pm

Cowology wrote:
Kalamazoo317 wrote:I could understand that. I think a lot of it is just being a young team. But, yeah, Bogie's definitely a minus defender.
Yeah, part of it is being young but it's also a reflection of the talent we've acquired and certainly an indictment on our coach.

I'm being overly dramatc and clearly we aren't having a fire sale, but I don't much see the point in having veterans like CoJo, Burks & Bojan. Their "scoring" isn't helping us win games and just from a culture standpoint I'm pushing for a minute restriction on guys who aren't playing hard on the defensive end. That get's complicated with a guy like Bogdonovic who is 33 yrs old and on a $20 mil extension. Moving him makes it easier to hold the young guys accountable for their effort/defense. To a lesser extend that extends to Burks as well.

If we are looking ahead to next year and thinking about who's going to help us win games, I'm still not sure having those guys around is a good idea. At 34 this feels more like Blakes trajectory than Grants. I think we've seen the best of Bojan. And unfortunately we are still further away than we'd like. The Cade injury sets us back, but then depending on how the draft goes we may be looking at another very young piece. With the East strenghening we've got an uphill battle to climb.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with having a couple of vets. I just don't know that any of these guys are the type of veteran leader we actually need. CoJo sure as **** isn't Lindsey Hunter and both BoJan/Burks are really journeymen specialists who belong on the bench of a playoff team. Bagley got wrapped up in my nonsense unfairly because I needed $10 mil to match salaries. I actually do like him despite his flaws.

I dunno, this team needs some grit. I don't think he's the guy, but I understand why somebody would look at Dillion Brooks. More than that though we need some on-court leadership at both ends of the floor. Cade can hopefully take care of the offensive end. He should be able to settle us down and get us those necessary buckets down the stretch. But who's the emotional leader of the team? Who's patrolling guys for things like effort? Right now it's basically a free for all with our vets padding their stats for their next contract and our young guys still looking completely lost in terms of in-game execution.



This year has been a sharp drop off because the last 20 games of last season we were actually pretty ok defensively (near middle of the road in the NBA over the last quarter of the season last year after starting the season near the bottom). I'm not sure if we'll turn it on again or not. You certainly can appreciate the a player like Bojan being a release valve on offense for the young guys, but on the flip side he's not leading by example on the defensive side of the ball and you need guys like Ivey, Bey, Duren, etc to see the important of playing hard on that side and getting rewarded with shots on the other end because of the work you're putting in defensively.

Bad teams have their worst defensive players also taking the bulk of their shots, because the rest of the team isn't going to go all out and buy-in to a defensive system if your #1 guy on offense isn't buying into it. It's why the younger version of Harden and the Rockets were bad. It's why a team like Atlanta has so many issues with Trae not putting in the work on defense. It's why Chicago has had locker room issues this year with LaVine not working hard on defense.

If we're going to have someone that is good on offense not play hard/good on defense, I'd much rather they be in an off the bench high # of shots per minute role like a Lou Williams type player. Bojan would be great for that role as well but we're just not completely there with everything else to have a player of his caliber come off the bench in a microwave type role.
Cowology
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 41,298
And1: 4,739
Joined: Sep 05, 2004

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#86 » by Cowology » Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:21 pm

bstein14 wrote:
Cowology wrote:
Kalamazoo317 wrote:I could understand that. I think a lot of it is just being a young team. But, yeah, Bogie's definitely a minus defender.
Yeah, part of it is being young but it's also a reflection of the talent we've acquired and certainly an indictment on our coach.

I'm being overly dramatc and clearly we aren't having a fire sale, but I don't much see the point in having veterans like CoJo, Burks & Bojan. Their "scoring" isn't helping us win games and just from a culture standpoint I'm pushing for a minute restriction on guys who aren't playing hard on the defensive end. That get's complicated with a guy like Bogdonovic who is 33 yrs old and on a $20 mil extension. Moving him makes it easier to hold the young guys accountable for their effort/defense. To a lesser extend that extends to Burks as well.

If we are looking ahead to next year and thinking about who's going to help us win games, I'm still not sure having those guys around is a good idea. At 34 this feels more like Blakes trajectory than Grants. I think we've seen the best of Bojan. And unfortunately we are still further away than we'd like. The Cade injury sets us back, but then depending on how the draft goes we may be looking at another very young piece. With the East strenghening we've got an uphill battle to climb.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with having a couple of vets. I just don't know that any of these guys are the type of veteran leader we actually need. CoJo sure as **** isn't Lindsey Hunter and both BoJan/Burks are really journeymen specialists who belong on the bench of a playoff team. Bagley got wrapped up in my nonsense unfairly because I needed $10 mil to match salaries. I actually do like him despite his flaws.

I dunno, this team needs some grit. I don't think he's the guy, but I understand why somebody would look at Dillion Brooks. More than that though we need some on-court leadership at both ends of the floor. Cade can hopefully take care of the offensive end. He should be able to settle us down and get us those necessary buckets down the stretch. But who's the emotional leader of the team? Who's patrolling guys for things like effort? Right now it's basically a free for all with our vets padding their stats for their next contract and our young guys still looking completely lost in terms of in-game execution.



This year has been a sharp drop off because the last 20 games of last season we were actually pretty ok defensively (near middle of the road in the NBA over the last quarter of the season last year after starting the season near the bottom). I'm not sure if we'll turn it on again or not. You certainly can appreciate the a player like Bojan being a release valve on offense for the young guys, but on the flip side he's not leading by example on the defensive side of the ball and you need guys like Ivey, Bey, Duren, etc to see the important of playing hard on that side and getting rewarded with shots on the other end because of the work you're putting in defensively.

Bad teams have their worst defensive players also taking the bulk of their shots, because the rest of the team isn't going to go all out and buy-in to a defensive system if your #1 guy on offense isn't buying into it. It's why the younger version of Harden and the Rockets were bad. It's why a team like Atlanta has so many issues with Trae not putting in the work on defense. It's why Chicago has had locker room issues this year with LaVine not working hard on defense.

If we're going to have someone that is good on offense not play hard/good on defense, I'd much rather they be in an off the bench high # of shots per minute role like a Lou Williams type player. Bojan would be great for that role as well but we're just not completely there with everything else to have a player of his caliber come off the bench in a microwave type role.
That was well said. I think I agree in it's entirety.
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 12,281
And1: 5,259
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#87 » by Kilo » Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:53 pm

This team needs two years of Thibs.
Weaver = Hinkie
VW to Portland :pray:
Cowology
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 41,298
And1: 4,739
Joined: Sep 05, 2004

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#88 » by Cowology » Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:28 pm

Kilo wrote:This team needs two years of Thibs.

He can be this teams Rick Carlisle. :lol:
Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#89 » by Kalamazoo317 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:51 pm

You both make good points. Here's hoping we can trade Bojan/Burks for defensive culture setters and draft picks. Something like Beverly and Laker picks or, if we get into crazy town, Draymond?
Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#90 » by Kalamazoo317 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:16 pm

Bey for Mo Bamba with whatever salary fillers on either side. Who says no?
User avatar
GreekAlex
Analyst
Posts: 3,224
And1: 1,827
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
       

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#91 » by GreekAlex » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:19 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:Bey for Mo Bamba with whatever salary fillers on either side. Who says no?


If the Pistons are dealing Bey, I’d rather get a 1st.

The unknown is way more intriguing than Bamba.
Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#92 » by Kalamazoo317 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:42 pm

Who’s trading a first for Bey right now?
User avatar
GreekAlex
Analyst
Posts: 3,224
And1: 1,827
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
       

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#93 » by GreekAlex » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:46 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:Who’s trading a first for Bey right now?


Then just keep him. I don’t see him harming anyone’s development. Some nights he doesn’t even get many shots.

There’s no urgency to deal him. I don’t believe in shuffling the deck just for the sake of it.
chrbal
RealGM
Posts: 21,618
And1: 2,052
Joined: Mar 02, 2001
Contact:

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#94 » by chrbal » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:58 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:Who’s trading a first for Bey right now?


First off, just keep him then. But also, the Knicks traded a first round pick to get Cam Reddish and the barely used him pre-injury or whatever reason he missed the end of last season .

I’m not saying Bey will be in high demand, but you just need one franchise to think they can fix him
Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#95 » by Kalamazoo317 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:10 pm

I like Bey and I'm not champing at the bit to trade him, but I am starting to question if he fills a role for this team when we're actually trying to win. The lack of progress on defense or as a rebounder coupled with streaky shooting and iso ball approach on offense makes it hard to figure out how he fits when we're healthy and loading up for a run at the play-in. What's his skill set that helps this team when they're trying to be competitive?
User avatar
zeebneeb
RealGM
Posts: 19,686
And1: 13,235
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: ANGERVILLE: Population 1
 

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#96 » by zeebneeb » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:23 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:I like Bey and I'm not champing at the bit to trade him, but I am starting to question if he fills a role for this team when we're actually trying to win. The lack of progress on defense or as a rebounder coupled with streaky shooting and iso ball approach on offense makes it hard to figure out how he fits when we're healthy and loading up for a run at the play-in. What's his skill set that helps this team when they're trying to be competitive?
That is a GREAT question. I originally applauded his game development, as whats wrong with a more well rounded player?

The problem is two-fold. I firmly believe his approach to weight-lifting has ruined his shot, by making it harder for him to raise, and release his shot. His flexibility is ruined, and he needs to shed some pounds. He is NOT a post playing PF. He is a 3-D SF, or least that's what he looked like his first year.

Secondly, he has worked his ass of to be a better ball-handler, and getting into the lane, but his apparent belief that he had to become Arnold Schwarzenegger combined with that, has turned him into an oversized meatball, with arms, thus him crashing into the lane awkwardly, and turning it over because his flexibility sucks.

Bey has basically self-sabotaged what would have been a guaranteed starting position, and a hefty contract, by pumping iron, and not focusing on what he was actually good at, and good for the team.

He has become close to useless, most of the time.
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 32,945
And1: 9,758
Joined: Jun 22, 2001

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#97 » by bstein14 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:32 pm

Bey has been better on defense the last 20 games than he was the first 25 games. Part of that is likely coming off the bench a bit more but he hasn't been bottom 20 of the league bad the last month or so like he was to start the season.
mattao313
General Manager
Posts: 9,587
And1: 4,464
Joined: Aug 29, 2014
       

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#98 » by mattao313 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:08 pm

Kalamazoo317 wrote:Bey for Mo Bamba with whatever salary fillers on either side. Who says no?
I'd rather have bey then Bamba

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app
Championships
Kalamazoo317
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,381
And1: 2,319
Joined: Nov 23, 2018
   

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#99 » by Kalamazoo317 » Fri Jan 13, 2023 11:29 pm

Bey FG 40.1% this year, 39.6% last year; 3-point FG 32.7% this year (217 attempts), 34.6% last year (610 attempts); 120 defensive rating this year; 115.8 defensive rating last year; 4.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.2 blocks, 1.1 turnovers per game this year in 28.5 minutes per game

Bamba 49.2% this year, 48% last year; 3-point FG 37% this year (92 attempts), 38.1% last year (281 attempts); 112.2 defensive rating this year; 108.2 defensive rating last year; 5.0 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 0.3 steals, 1.1 blocks, 0.6 turnovers in 18.3 games this year

Bamba is only 25 and 7’0 tall and is better floor spacer, defender, rebounder, and offers more size than Bey.

So two questions for you:

1. What does Bey do better than Bamba?
2. What does Bey do that this team needs better than Bamba?
breezypeezy
Pro Prospect
Posts: 838
And1: 535
Joined: Dec 30, 2014
       

Re: Trade deadline thread 

Post#100 » by breezypeezy » Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:40 am

Whomever Weaver adds through trade, draft or FA, I hope durability is a major consideration. Injury prone guys are just too big a disruption to the entire rotation, player development, team chemistry, all of it really.

Its next to impossible to build a championship defense with missing pieces. Weve got to build a roster of guys that come to work all season. The ones that are constantly nursing something never seem to change.

Return to Detroit Pistons