Killian Hayes, most complete PG of the 2020 class

[Big J]

At the time? Absolutely people talked about it. You were in diapers I guess.

You do realize Marcus Smart actually had to get a lot better right? The league average was also 4 points lower back then.

Sooo, prime Rondo would be unplayable in today’s league then?

Yeah, probably.

Teams would sag off him even more now than they did back then, his pick and roll game would be easy to defend with a simple drop-coverage scheme.

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

[Colbinii]

Sooo, prime Rondo would be unplayable in today’s league then?

Yeah, probably.

Teams would sag off him even more now than they did back then, his pick and roll game would be easy to defend with a simple drop-coverage scheme.

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

You were like 8 years old when Rondo was in his prime and I am much older than you.

Rondo never feasted--he was a slightly above average PG. Now, PGs need to be able to attack and score much more and more efficiently to be effective.

Duncan Robinson was very good in 2020 but since then has been unplayable because of his defense due to the requirements of defensive versatility on the wings.

[Big J]

Yeah, probably.

Teams would sag off him even more now than they did back then, his pick and roll game would be easy to defend with a simple drop-coverage scheme.

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

You were like 8 years old when Rondo was in his prime and I am much older than you.

Rondo never feasted--he was a slightly above average PG. Now, PGs need to be able to attack and score much more and more efficiently to be effective.

Duncan Robinson was very good in 2020 but since then has been unplayable because of his defense due to the requirements of defensive versatility on the wings.

Actually Rondo did feast. He was the best player in a series that featured Lebron. Playoff Rondo was a thing. He even got important minutes 3 years ago in the finals as a shell of himself, but prime Rondhe’s unplayable according to you. GTFOH.

[clyde21]

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

You were like 8 years old when Rondo was in his prime and I am much older than you.

Rondo never feasted--he was a slightly above average PG. Now, PGs need to be able to attack and score much more and more efficiently to be effective.

Duncan Robinson was very good in 2020 but since then has been unplayable because of his defense due to the requirements of defensive versatility on the wings.

Actually Rondo did feast. He was the best player in a series that featured Lebron. Playoff Rondo was a thing. He even got important minutes 3 years ago in the finals as a shell of himself, but prime Rondhe’s unplayable according to you. GTFOH.

how do you know? weren't you like 6 when Rondo was in his prime?

[Colbinii]

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

You were like 8 years old when Rondo was in his prime and I am much older than you.

Rondo never feasted--he was a slightly above average PG. Now, PGs need to be able to attack and score much more and more efficiently to be effective.

Duncan Robinson was very good in 2020 but since then has been unplayable because of his defense due to the requirements of defensive versatility on the wings.

Actually Rondo did feast. He was the best player in a series that featured Lebron. Playoff Rondo was a thing. He even got important minutes 3 years ago in the finals as a shell of himself, but prime Rondhe’s unplayable according to you. GTFOH.

I don't think Rondo was better than LeBron in 2010 or 2012.

But the point stands, Point Guards like Rondo are a dying (maybe even dead) breed.

[Big J]

You were like 8 years old when Rondo was in his prime and I am much older than you.

Rondo never feasted--he was a slightly above average PG. Now, PGs need to be able to attack and score much more and more efficiently to be effective.

Duncan Robinson was very good in 2020 but since then has been unplayable because of his defense due to the requirements of defensive versatility on the wings.

Actually Rondo did feast. He was the best player in a series that featured Lebron. Playoff Rondo was a thing. He even got important minutes 3 years ago in the finals as a shell of himself, but prime Rondhe’s unplayable according to you. GTFOH.

how do you know? weren't you like 6 when Rondo was in his prime?

No I was 4 bro.

[Mr Peanut]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

[EvanZ]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

Because those posters were accused of not watching someone that the accuser could not possibly have watched while he was in Kindergarten.

[Colbinii]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

I mean look at what he said...

[Colbinii]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

Big J says this (see bold) but Big J is 21 years old at the oldest. The idea that someone who was 5-10 years old is implying he watched a player is a bit silly.

Sooo, prime Rondo would be unplayable in today’s league then?

Yeah, probably.

Teams would sag off him even more now than they did back then, his pick and roll game would be easy to defend with a simple drop-coverage scheme.

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

[Big J]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

Big J says this (see bold) but Big J is 21 years old at the oldest. The idea that someone who was 5-10 years old is implying he watched a player is a bit silly.

Yeah, probably.

Teams would sag off him even more now than they did back then, his pick and roll game would be easy to defend with a simple drop-coverage scheme.

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

I work as a freelance scout, so yea, I've ground game film from those years.

[Colbinii]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

Big J says this (see bold) but Big J is 21 years old at the oldest. The idea that someone who was 5-10 years old is implying he watched a player is a bit silly.

Lol, you it’s obvious you didn’t watch the league back then. He feasted when guys sagged off of him. It allowed him to get a running start. Everyone knows this. PrImE RoNdO iS UnPlAyAbLe bUt DuNcAn RoBiNsOn Is A gOd!!!

I work as a freelance scout, so yea, I've ground game film from those years.

Thats awesome.

I saw all of Bostons series from 2008-2012 and all of LeBron James series from 2007-2012 as they happened and have done extensive re-watching for multiple RealGM projects due to the ramifications of KG and LeBrons careers.

Trust me when I say this--guards who can't reliable score have a low ceiling in the modern NBA. Guards who can't shoot consistently are nearly non-existant.

[Big J]

Big J says this (see bold) but Big J is 21 years old at the oldest. The idea that someone who was 5-10 years old is implying he watched a player is a bit silly.

I work as a freelance scout, so yea, I've ground game film from those years.

Thats awesome.

I saw all of Bostons series from 2008-2012 and all of LeBron James series from 2007-2012 as they happened and have done extensive re-watching for multiple RealGM projects due to the ramifications of KG and LeBrons careers.

Trust me when I say this--guards who can't reliable score have a low ceiling in the modern NBA. Guards who can't shoot consistently are nearly non-existant.

Got it, most of what makes me think that Killian will be ok is due to his elite defensive ability and playmaking skills. I do expect his shooting numbers to continue improving as shooting is the easiest skill for guys to improve at over time. A lot of young guys take dumb shots to experiment, and they eliminate those shots as over time.

[Mr Peanut]

Big J says this (see bold) but Big J is 21 years old at the oldest. The idea that someone who was 5-10 years old is implying he watched a player is a bit silly.

I work as a freelance scout, so yea, I've ground game film from those years.

Thats awesome.

I saw all of Bostons series from 2008-2012 and all of LeBron James series from 2007-2012 as they happened and have done extensive re-watching for multiple RealGM projects due to the ramifications of KG and LeBrons careers.

Trust me when I say this--guards who can't reliable score have a low ceiling in the modern NBA. Guards who can't shoot consistently are nearly non-existant.

The ol' "I've watched all the games, so therefore my viewpoint is correct and yours isn't". Can't argue with that.

[Big J]

7-10 & 3-3. Take that for TS% mother **** ers.

[Colbinii]

I work as a freelance scout, so yea, I've ground game film from those years.

Thats awesome.

I saw all of Bostons series from 2008-2012 and all of LeBron James series from 2007-2012 as they happened and have done extensive re-watching for multiple RealGM projects due to the ramifications of KG and LeBrons careers.

Trust me when I say this--guards who can't reliable score have a low ceiling in the modern NBA. Guards who can't shoot consistently are nearly non-existant.

The ol' "I've watched all the games, so therefore my viewpoint is correct and yours isn't". Can't argue with that.

You can argue all you want Mr. Peanut Brain.

Big J never presented a reasonable argument. He simply said "You didn't watch him live".

[JRoy]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

It’s a poor debate tactic.

Attack the argument, not the person.

[EvanZ]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

It’s a poor debate tactic.

Attack the argument, not the person.

It's also a poor debate tactic to not read what was actually being said. Big J accused people of "not watching Rondo"...that's not an opinion. It's not even about Killian Hayes. He literally just lobbed an ad hominem attack, and an irrelevant one at that.

*THAT* is why people said he wasn't old enough to have watched Rondo. Because Big J is a freaking dummy. And now you look like a dummy too.

[JRoy]

I might be missing an inside joke, but I'm a bit miffed why posters are resorting to questioning someone's age every time they come across an opinion they disagree with (or worse, one that disproves their argument).

It’s a poor debate tactic.

Attack the argument, not the person.

It's also a poor debate tactic to not read what was actually being said. Big J accused people of "not watching Rondo"...that's not an opinion. It's not even about Killian Hayes. He literally just lobbed an ad hominem attack, and an irrelevant one at that.

*THAT* is why people said he wasn't old enough to have watched Rondo. Because Big J is a freaking dummy. And now you look like a dummy too.

Deflection.

Was talking about the specific tactic of attacking his age, rather than the argument.

Sounds like you gave up on attacking the argument to me, and I don’t have a dog in this fight.

Ad hominem as a tactic just means you cannot formulate a good enough argument to win the debate on the merits of your argument.

[EvanZ]

JRoy give it up man. If you want to discuss Killian Hayes, that's one thing. But defending Big J accusing people of not watching Rondo, when Big J wasn't even born is just lame. If that's the rep you want here, though, I can't stop you.