The Decision on Fultz?

[eyriq]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2023/01/13/2023-orlando-magic-second-quarter-mvp-markelle-fultz-signaled-stability/

Fultz as the Q2 MVP for our team? Bold take. I approve!

[JoshuaPotter]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2023/01/13/2023-orlando-magic-second-quarter-mvp-markelle-fultz-signaled-stability/

Fultz as the Q2 MVP for our team? Bold take. I approve!

Let it never be said I that I don't respect your energy Eyriq because I most certainly do.

[eyriq]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2023/01/13/2023-orlando-magic-second-quarter-mvp-markelle-fultz-signaled-stability/

Fultz as the Q2 MVP for our team? Bold take. I approve!

Let it never be said I that I don't respect your energy Eyriq because I most certainly do.

I've been quite energized. Mostly due to Paolo!

[Rainwater]

My god 39 people see Fultz as a long-term starter. That is truly wild to me especially when both guard positions are the weakest positions for the magic. He is a solid role player best suited for the bench. Would love him in a Shawn Livingston Role. I feel like the board has a tendency to overrate players.

[VFX]

My god 39 people see Fultz as a long-term starter. That is truly wild to me especially when both guard positions are the weakest positions for the magic. He is a solid role player best suited for the bench. Would love him in a Shawn Livingston Role. I feel like the board has a tendency to overrate players.

What can you say about Magic fans.

The best point guard we’ve ever had is Penny. Then it’s a huge drop off and then maybe Jameer Nelson… Not sure if a lot of this fan base watches other teams regularly.

[Rainwater]

My god 39 people see Fultz as a long-term starter. That is truly wild to me especially when both guard positions are the weakest positions for the magic. He is a solid role player best suited for the bench. Would love him in a Shawn Livingston Role. I feel like the board has a tendency to overrate players.

What can you say about Magic fans.

The best point guard we’ve ever had is Penny. Then it’s a huge drop off and then maybe Jameer Nelson… Not sure if a lot of this fan base watches other teams regularly.

Yeah, I really don't think they do.

[Skybox]

It’s a case of…
“If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one your with”

[pepe1991]

It’s a case of…
“If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one your with”

Or just settling for mediocirty because it's aveliable.

Knicks last year without any PG had 37-45 record. This year addition of Brunson set them to 24-19 record and first good Knicks season since 2013.

Return of Murray for Nuggets is difference between 48-34 season and pace to 60 wins and best record on West.

Haliburton keeps Pacers relevant by himself.

Celtics only roster change from lost finals was...addition of another point guard. They might win 65 games this year.

Bulls downfall started with... fall of PG. DItto to Suns.

It's such an obvious thing that Magic are held back by awful PGs for decade now that i feel like i'm taking crazy pills every time i engage into random Fultz, Payton, Napier , CJ Watson conversations. Magic lacked starting PG so much that even DJ Augustin was massive improvment. With him as starter Magic won 42 games
Did he do something amazing? Apsolutley no. Spaced floor and moved the ball, and wasn't turnover prone. Mindblowing.

[Skybox]

It’s a case of…
“If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one your with”

Or just settling for mediocirty because it's aveliable.

That’s what I meant

[zaymon]

I agree that thinking Fultz is a starter is wild. Right now he passes open 3s, passes out of slightly contested layups ( and blows most of easy opportunities he gets). He almost exclusively scoring in transition. Smaller Ben Simmons. 76ers were consistent with drafting.

[Audi]

I agree that thinking Fultz is a starter is wild. Right now he passes open 3s, passes out of slightly contested layups ( and blows most of easy opportunities he gets). He almost exclusively scoring in transition. Smaller Ben Simmons. 76ers were consistent with drafting.

Cole and Suggs love shooting 3s. Which one should start over Fultz?

[Bergmaniac]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2023/01/13/2023-orlando-magic-second-quarter-mvp-markelle-fultz-signaled-stability/

Fultz as the Q2 MVP for our team? Bold take. I approve!

This article is a peak example of the "Feels before reals" mentality which is so prevailing in so many Fultz discussions. The author acknowledges that neither Fultz's individual stats nor his impact stats show him to be anywhere near worthy of being the MVP of the team during this period, but he feels Fultz deserve it anyway.

You can't be the MVP when you are putting pedestrian individual numbers and your team is better when you are off the court. Especially when you have a teammate who is absolutely crushing you both in individual numbers and impact stats. Fultz has no case whatsover over Franz. None.

Probably the most telling stat about the difference in their impact during the period in question is this - https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612753&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628365,1630532&OnlyCommonGames=true

In the games they have both played (which imclude virtually all games during the period covered in the article), we are getting destroyed when Fultz has been on the court without Franz (-22.34 net rating, with boh DRTG and ORTG being terrible). On the other hand, the lineups with Franz on and Fultz off are doing quite well (2.60 net rating). What's Fultz's case for MVP again?

[VFX]

I agree that thinking Fultz is a starter is wild. Right now he passes open 3s, passes out of slightly contested layups ( and blows most of easy opportunities he gets). He almost exclusively scoring in transition. Smaller Ben Simmons. 76ers were consistent with drafting.

Cole and Suggs love shooting 3s. Which one should start over Fultz?

On the team now? Suggs.

If not, then I’m taking a point guard in the draft with one of the two picks and I’m moving Fultz regardless because of his contract.

[VFX]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2023/01/13/2023-orlando-magic-second-quarter-mvp-markelle-fultz-signaled-stability/

Fultz as the Q2 MVP for our team? Bold take. I approve!

This article is a peak example of the "Feels before reals" mentality which is so prevailing in so many Fultz discussions. The author acknowledges that neither Fultz's individual stats nor his impact stats show him to be anywhere near worthy of being the MVP of the team during this period, but he feels Fultz deserve it anyway.

You can't be the MVP when you are putting pedestrian individual numbers and your team is better when you are off the court. Especially when you have a teammate who is absolutely crushing you both in individual numbers and impact stats. Fultz has no case whatsover over Franz. None.

Probably the most telling stat about the difference in their impact during the period in question is this - https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612753&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628365,1630532&OnlyCommonGames=true

In the games they have both played (which imclude virtually all games during the period covered in the article), we are getting destroyed when Fultz has been on the court without Franz (-22.34 net rating, with boh DRTG and ORTG being terrible). On the other hand, the lineups with Franz on and Fultz off are doing quite well (2.60 net rating). What's Fultz's case for MVP again?

I laughed at the summary of the article:

“But Fultz’s real value is not in his scoring or how he puts the ball in the basket. It is not even about his statistics. It is truly about the stability he brings. That permeates everywhere on the roster. It is a recognizable thing but also an unseen thing.”

Empty platitudes that mean absolutely nothing as usual by Philip Rossman-Reich.

[eyriq]

The funny thing is that Philip mirrors my view on Fultz perfectly. Does he have a history of brilliant analysis? I'm quite enjoying his podcast as well.

Anyway, expert(?) opinions aside, the eye test is strong for Fultz supporters, feelz for the win. But that is changing more and more. Box score stats are starting to back up that he's the best guard on the team and our 4th best player. I'm actually surprised to see this so soon. Not that 4th on our depth chart is epic but still, that's a positive development. It's happening.

[Bergmaniac]

I laughed at the summary of the article:

“But Fultz’s real value is not in his scoring or how he puts the ball in the basket. It is not even about his statistics. It is truly about the stability he brings. That permeates everywhere on the roster. It is a recognizable thing but also an unseen thing.”

Empty platitudes that mean absolutely nothing as usual by Philip Rossman-Reich.

I somehow missed the bolded sentence on my first read. It's really is the cherry on top for this article.

The funny thing is that Philip mirrors my view on Fultz perfectly.

So you agree that he is been more valuable than Franz in the period in question? Or is that a step too far for you?

[eyriq]

I laughed at the summary of the article:

“But Fultz’s real value is not in his scoring or how he puts the ball in the basket. It is not even about his statistics. It is truly about the stability he brings. That permeates everywhere on the roster. It is a recognizable thing but also an unseen thing.”

Empty platitudes that mean absolutely nothing as usual by Philip Rossman-Reich.

I somehow missed the bolded sentence on my first read. It's really is the cherry on top for this article.

The funny thing is that Philip mirrors my view on Fultz perfectly.

So you agree that he is been more valuable than Franz in the period in question? Or is that a step too far for you?

I don't think its outlandish. I'd have to check who has the most points from the Sweater Vest threads!

[GelbeWand09]

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2023/01/13/2023-orlando-magic-second-quarter-mvp-markelle-fultz-signaled-stability/

Fultz as the Q2 MVP for our team? Bold take. I approve!

This article is a peak example of the "Feels before reals" mentality which is so prevailing in so many Fultz discussions. The author acknowledges that neither Fultz's individual stats nor his impact stats show him to be anywhere near worthy of being the MVP of the team during this period, but he feels Fultz deserve it anyway.

You can't be the MVP when you are putting pedestrian individual numbers and your team is better when you are off the court. Especially when you have a teammate who is absolutely crushing you both in individual numbers and impact stats. Fultz has no case whatsover over Franz. None.

Probably the most telling stat about the difference in their impact during the period in question is this - https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612753&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628365,1630532&OnlyCommonGames=true

In the games they have both played (which imclude virtually all games during the period covered in the article), we are getting destroyed when Fultz has been on the court without Franz (-22.34 net rating, with boh DRTG and ORTG being terrible). On the other hand, the lineups with Franz on and Fultz off are doing quite well (2.60 net rating). What's Fultz's case for MVP again?

I laughed at the summary of the article:

“But Fultz’s real value is not in his scoring or how he puts the ball in the basket. It is not even about his statistics. It is truly about the stability he brings. That permeates everywhere on the roster. It is a recognizable thing but also an unseen thing.”

Empty platitudes that mean absolutely nothing as usual by Philip Rossman-Reich.

Yeah, for me he is terrible too. I'm used to almost all Magic podcasts being pretty clueless, but most of them at least admit that they are homerish fanboys. He always gives the impression to me that he thinks he knows everything, but knows nothing.

[GelbeWand09]

About Fultz: Like i said before. I hope he is gone next season. A Guard who cant shoot or get to the freethrowline is pretty useless. All his impact stats are negative. Only positive surprise is his improved defense but Suggs is still (much) better at it.
You can't start a worse passing Andre Miller in 2023 as your PG. Even less when your 2 cornerstones are no high volume/36+% 3P shooters themselves (Franz at least least is on his way).

[Audi]

This article is a peak example of the "Feels before reals" mentality which is so prevailing in so many Fultz discussions. The author acknowledges that neither Fultz's individual stats nor his impact stats show him to be anywhere near worthy of being the MVP of the team during this period, but he feels Fultz deserve it anyway.

You can't be the MVP when you are putting pedestrian individual numbers and your team is better when you are off the court. Especially when you have a teammate who is absolutely crushing you both in individual numbers and impact stats. Fultz has no case whatsover over Franz. None.

Probably the most telling stat about the difference in their impact during the period in question is this - https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612753&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628365,1630532&OnlyCommonGames=true

In the games they have both played (which imclude virtually all games during the period covered in the article), we are getting destroyed when Fultz has been on the court without Franz (-22.34 net rating, with boh DRTG and ORTG being terrible). On the other hand, the lineups with Franz on and Fultz off are doing quite well (2.60 net rating). What's Fultz's case for MVP again?

I laughed at the summary of the article:

“But Fultz’s real value is not in his scoring or how he puts the ball in the basket. It is not even about his statistics. It is truly about the stability he brings. That permeates everywhere on the roster. It is a recognizable thing but also an unseen thing.”

Empty platitudes that mean absolutely nothing as usual by Philip Rossman-Reich.

Yeah, for me he is terrible too. I'm used to almost all Magic podcasts being pretty clueless, but most of them at least admit that they are homerish fanboys. He always gives the impression to me that he thinks he knows everything, but knows nothing.

Say what you will about PRR, but since he is media he does actually get to spend time talking with the players and we don’t. Maybe the “unseen stability” he’s referring to is something he’s heard from members of the team?