The Decision on Fultz?

[fendilim]

I like Fultz, I think he is a really good player. But i question his effectiveness in the playoffs. The guy doesn’t/cant make perimeter shots at a respectable clip. He literally will be left wide open and his defender will likely just clog the paint.

I’d rather us invest on Suggs since we can get a good two guard by trading both of our picks or drafting one.

Suggs would then be trained to be our Marcus Smart. His tenacity and motor can be vital to a championship team especially if he develops that jumper of his.

[fendilim]

I laughed at the summary of the article:

“But Fultz’s real value is not in his scoring or how he puts the ball in the basket. It is not even about his statistics. It is truly about the stability he brings. That permeates everywhere on the roster. It is a recognizable thing but also an unseen thing.”

Empty platitudes that mean absolutely nothing as usual by Philip Rossman-Reich.

Yeah, for me he is terrible too. I'm used to almost all Magic podcasts being pretty clueless, but most of them at least admit that they are homerish fanboys. He always gives the impression to me that he thinks he knows everything, but knows nothing.

Say what you will about PRR, but since he is media he does actually get to spend time talking with the players and we don’t. Maybe the “unseen stability” he’s referring to is something he’s heard from members of the team?

Well, he does bring some stability on the offense tbh. Compared to Cole Anthony lol

[pepe1991]

i wrote my take on that article week ago (or similar article , can't recall) but decided to not publish it. It wasn't so much my take on Fultz rather my take on Orlando Magic Daily-as*licking for acess and living in deepest hole of every front office.

During 2016-18 it drew me mad seeing Magic getting beaten up badly and Philip in particular would just randomlly gave B+ grades to everybody players he liked ( naimly young players ).
Article named "Deconstructing Elfrid Payton’s disastrous defense" arived at very convenient time. 40 days before he was traded.

I don't want to be consiparcy theorist guy but i assume they were given information that Payton is gonner so they could do demage control over pending trade so they publised "negative" article.

And similar thing was with Gordon.
In October of 2020 Philip publishes article "Aaron Gordon is the central figure to the Orlando Magic’s 2021 season"

Several months later other writer published article "2021 Orlando Magic Player Evaluations: Aaron Gordon never took the step to being an All-Star" in aftermath of trades.

It's just... bad, subjective writing and being fanboy who lacks credibility to publish anything that could even be considered controversial. It's everything but journalism.


Fultz article... lol...just lol

At the end of a day it's just lack of basketball knowledge and nothing more. Imagine reading article how excellent Josh Richardson is because he "brings stability " compared to who? Romeo Langford? No s***. That still doesn't take in account fact that those guys play in NBA and should be evaluated upon their opposition as competition, not inner roster replacments. It's same bull*** people used to defend Payton. "But he is better than CJ Watson, Napier, Brandon Jennings" ... Yes, because people who brought those players to "challenge " him did it on purpose to enable him, and protect own draft decision . With Fultz situation is even more frustrating because Magic drafted Suggs and it seems like front office tapped out on him after a year.

[VFX]

About Fultz: Like i said before. I hope he is gone next season. A Guard who cant shoot or get to the freethrowline is pretty useless. All his impact stats are negative. Only positive surprise is his improved defense but Suggs is still (much) better at it.
You can't start a worse passing Andre Miller in 2023 as your PG. Even less when your 2 cornerstones are no high volume/36+% 3P shooters themselves (Franz at least least is on his way).

I’ll take an Andre Miller 10/10 times over Fultz. He averaged 10.9 assists one year and never missed a game.

Still a liability in 2023, but I agree that you just don’t trade a guy like Suggs when his defense is insane in just his second year. Take last nights game for example. If Clarkson has 22 points and getting hot in the 4th why isn’t Suggs on him? Mosey took him out for Cole and the defensive intensity just drops immediately.

[Audi]

i wrote my take on that article week ago (or similar article , can't recall) but decided to not publish it. It wasn't so much my take on Fultz rather my take on Orlando Magic Daily-as*licking for acess and living in deepest hole of every front office.

During 2016-18 it drew me mad seeing Magic getting beaten up badly and Philip in particular would just randomlly gave B+ grades to everybody players he liked ( naimly young players ).
Article named "Deconstructing Elfrid Payton’s disastrous defense" arived at very convenient time. 40 days before he was traded.

I don't want to be consiparcy theorist guy but i assume they were given information that Payton is gonner so they could do demage control over pending trade so they publised "negative" article.

And similar thing was with Gordon.
In October of 2020 Philip publishes article "Aaron Gordon is the central figure to the Orlando Magic’s 2021 season"

Several months later other writer published article "2021 Orlando Magic Player Evaluations: Aaron Gordon never took the step to being an All-Star" in aftermath of trades.

It's just... bad, subjective writing and being fanboy who lacks credibility to publish anything that could even be considered controversial. It's everything but journalism.


Fultz article... lol...just lol

At the end of a day it's just lack of basketball knowledge and nothing more. Imagine reading article how excellent Josh Richardson is because he "brings stability " compared to who? Romeo Langford? No s***. That still doesn't take in account fact that those guys play in NBA and should be evaluated upon their opposition as competition, not inner roster replacments. It's same bull*** people used to defend Payton. "But he is better than CJ Watson, Napier, Brandon Jennings" ... Yes, because people who brought those players to "challenge " him did it on purpose to enable him, and protect own draft decision . With Fultz situation is even more frustrating because Magic drafted Suggs and it seems like front office tapped out on him after a year.

Lol Pepe - what do you expect? You think the org is going to hand out press passes to someone who is going to trash the team and be hyper-critical of everything?

[eyriq]

To piggey back on the ranking PG's thought project and just using PG's as designated by Basketball Reference and only using box score stats here is the list that spit out. Sort of interesting. Curry is having a downish year, Trae Young is still a stud, and Chris Paul is finally falling off. I curious where Fultz finishes on this list at the end of the season.

Spoiler:

1. Luka Doncic
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
3. Ja Morant
4. Trae Young
5. Stephan Curry
6. Damian Lillard
7. James Harden
8. De'Aaron Fox
9. Kyrie Irving
10. LaMelo Ball
11. Jalen Brunson
12. Tyrese Haliburton
13. Cade Cunningham
14. Darius Garland
15. Kevin Porter Jr.
16. Jrue Holiday
17. Russell Westbrook
18. Jordan Poole
19. Jamal Murray
20. Fred VanVleet
21. D'Angelo Russell
22. Chris Paul
23. Malcolm Brogdon
24. Tre Jones
25. Markelle Fultz
26. Spencer Dinwiddie
27. John Wall
28. Bones Hyland
29. Cameron Payne
30. Kyle Lowry

[swarlesbarkley]

i wrote my take on that article week ago (or similar article , can't recall) but decided to not publish it. It wasn't so much my take on Fultz rather my take on Orlando Magic Daily-as*licking for acess and living in deepest hole of every front office.

During 2016-18 it drew me mad seeing Magic getting beaten up badly and Philip in particular would just randomlly gave B+ grades to everybody players he liked ( naimly young players ).
Article named "Deconstructing Elfrid Payton’s disastrous defense" arived at very convenient time. 40 days before he was traded.

I don't want to be consiparcy theorist guy but i assume they were given information that Payton is gonner so they could do demage control over pending trade so they publised "negative" article.

And similar thing was with Gordon.
In October of 2020 Philip publishes article "Aaron Gordon is the central figure to the Orlando Magic’s 2021 season"

Several months later other writer published article "2021 Orlando Magic Player Evaluations: Aaron Gordon never took the step to being an All-Star" in aftermath of trades.

It's just... bad, subjective writing and being fanboy who lacks credibility to publish anything that could even be considered controversial. It's everything but journalism.


Fultz article... lol...just lol

At the end of a day it's just lack of basketball knowledge and nothing more. Imagine reading article how excellent Josh Richardson is because he "brings stability " compared to who? Romeo Langford? No s***. That still doesn't take in account fact that those guys play in NBA and should be evaluated upon their opposition as competition, not inner roster replacments. It's same bull*** people used to defend Payton. "But he is better than CJ Watson, Napier, Brandon Jennings" ... Yes, because people who brought those players to "challenge " him did it on purpose to enable him, and protect own draft decision . With Fultz situation is even more frustrating because Magic drafted Suggs and it seems like front office tapped out on him after a year.

It's not uncommon for trash stories to appear after a player has left the organization. It's not just Orlando. But I agree in general that the Magic have the media in their pockets hence why we get no real updates on JI for 2 years.

[Skybox]

I agree that thinking Fultz is a starter is wild. Right now he passes open 3s, passes out of slightly contested layups ( and blows most of easy opportunities he gets). He almost exclusively scoring in transition. Smaller Ben Simmons. 76ers were consistent with drafting.

Cole and Suggs love shooting 3s. Which one should start over Fultz?

A much improved Suggs or, more realistically, a player to be named later.

[zaymon]

I agree that thinking Fultz is a starter is wild. Right now he passes open 3s, passes out of slightly contested layups ( and blows most of easy opportunities he gets). He almost exclusively scoring in transition. Smaller Ben Simmons. 76ers were consistent with drafting.

Cole and Suggs love shooting 3s. Which one should start over Fultz?

A much improved Suggs or, more realistically, a player to be named later.

Suggs. His shooting form isnt broken, he is better getting all the way to the rim, he is better defender and he is younger. If we were a good playoff team Suggs should come of the bench and both Fultz and Anthony should be out of or at the end of rotation. I was always down on Cole and seeing how limited of a player Fultz still is after all these years i would void his contract after the season.

[Skybox]

Cole and Suggs love shooting 3s. Which one should start over Fultz?

A much improved Suggs or, more realistically, a player to be named later.

Suggs. His shooting form isnt broken, he is better getting all the way to the rim, he is better defender and he is younger. If we were a good playoff team Suggs should come of the bench and both Fultz and Anthony should be out of or at the end of rotation. I was always down on Cole and seeing how limited of a player Fultz still is after all these years i would void his contract after the season.

I could see Suggs at either guard spot...as SG/lockdown specialist, next to Scoot/Jordan Poole/FVV type at PG
or, at PG, next to Huerter/ Dick, GTJ/Herro type

...either way, Suggs must become more reliable. If he would just develop a reliable 3 from 1 or 2 spots (corner?) and continue his general improvement. He has struggled, but I wouldn't consider trading him without a serious return. I keep saying he's got the "IT" factor. If he can stay healthy, I expect to be significantly better this year (not just 3 years from now).

[JTG_92940618]

To piggey back on the ranking PG's thought project and just using PG's as designated by Basketball Reference and only using box score stats here is the list that spit out. Sort of interesting. Curry is having a downish year, Trae Young is still a stud, and Chris Paul is finally falling off. I curious where Fultz finishes on this list at the end of the season.

Spoiler:

1. Luka Doncic
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
3. Ja Morant
4. Trae Young
5. Stephan Curry
6. Damian Lillard
7. James Harden
8. De'Aaron Fox
9. Kyrie Irving
10. LaMelo Ball
11. Jalen Brunson
12. Tyrese Haliburton
13. Cade Cunningham
14. Darius Garland
15. Kevin Porter Jr.
16. Jrue Holiday
17. Russell Westbrook
18. Jordan Poole
19. Jamal Murray
20. Fred VanVleet
21. D'Angelo Russell
22. Chris Paul
23. Malcolm Brogdon
24. Tre Jones
25. Markelle Fultz
26. Spencer Dinwiddie
27. John Wall
28. Bones Hyland
29. Cameron Payne
30. Kyle Lowry

I get that this is just what the system has to spit out but Garland's position reminds me of something I heard on a podcast recently. "The Cavs are Mitchell's team now and you have to wonder how long Garland will be happy with that".

I think the timing of it will mean that we don't manage to get him but it's worth keeping an eye on.

[eyriq]

To piggey back on the ranking PG's thought project and just using PG's as designated by Basketball Reference and only using box score stats here is the list that spit out. Sort of interesting. Curry is having a downish year, Trae Young is still a stud, and Chris Paul is finally falling off. I curious where Fultz finishes on this list at the end of the season.

Spoiler:

1. Luka Doncic
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
3. Ja Morant
4. Trae Young
5. Stephan Curry
6. Damian Lillard
7. James Harden
8. De'Aaron Fox
9. Kyrie Irving
10. LaMelo Ball
11. Jalen Brunson
12. Tyrese Haliburton
13. Cade Cunningham
14. Darius Garland
15. Kevin Porter Jr.
16. Jrue Holiday
17. Russell Westbrook
18. Jordan Poole
19. Jamal Murray
20. Fred VanVleet
21. D'Angelo Russell
22. Chris Paul
23. Malcolm Brogdon
24. Tre Jones
25. Markelle Fultz
26. Spencer Dinwiddie
27. John Wall
28. Bones Hyland
29. Cameron Payne
30. Kyle Lowry

I get that this is just what the system has to spit out but Garland's position reminds me of something I heard on a podcast recently. "The Cavs are Mitchell's team now and you have to wonder how long Garland will be happy with that".

I think the timing of it will mean that we don't manage to get him but it's worth keeping an eye on.

That is a great thought. I wonder what it would take to get Garland.

[RookieStar]

To piggey back on the ranking PG's thought project and just using PG's as designated by Basketball Reference and only using box score stats here is the list that spit out. Sort of interesting. Curry is having a downish year, Trae Young is still a stud, and Chris Paul is finally falling off. I curious where Fultz finishes on this list at the end of the season.

Spoiler:

1. Luka Doncic
2. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
3. Ja Morant
4. Trae Young
5. Stephan Curry
6. Damian Lillard
7. James Harden
8. De'Aaron Fox
9. Kyrie Irving
10. LaMelo Ball
11. Jalen Brunson
12. Tyrese Haliburton
13. Cade Cunningham
14. Darius Garland
15. Kevin Porter Jr.
16. Jrue Holiday
17. Russell Westbrook
18. Jordan Poole
19. Jamal Murray
20. Fred VanVleet
21. D'Angelo Russell
22. Chris Paul
23. Malcolm Brogdon
24. Tre Jones
25. Markelle Fultz
26. Spencer Dinwiddie
27. John Wall
28. Bones Hyland
29. Cameron Payne
30. Kyle Lowry

I get that this is just what the system has to spit out but Garland's position reminds me of something I heard on a podcast recently. "The Cavs are Mitchell's team now and you have to wonder how long Garland will be happy with that".

I think the timing of it will mean that we don't manage to get him but it's worth keeping an eye on.

That is a great thought. I wonder what it would take to get Garland.

You would think they wanna recoup some of the assets they gave out to get DON. So don't expect a fair deal.

[basketballRob]

I personally don't feel that Fultz plays for stats. That's a rare thing for a young player.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Skybox]

I personally don't feel that Fultz plays for stats. That's a rare thing for a young player.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Agree…I really hope not because, if he was, he’d be out of the league. I’d like to see him try to score 20ppg and not be a position we need to upgrade.

[basketballRob]

I personally don't feel that Fultz plays for stats. That's a rare thing for a young player.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Agree…I really hope not because, if he was, he’d be out of the league. I’d like to see him try to score 20ppg and not be a position we need to upgrade.

Yeah, I think about 10% of Magic fans agree with you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Skybox]

I personally don't feel that Fultz plays for stats. That's a rare thing for a young player.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Agree…I really hope not because, if he was, he’d be out of the league. I’d like to see him try to score 20ppg and not be a position we need to upgrade.

Yeah, I think about 10% of Magic fans agree with you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

You might want to re-read the thread Rob, particularly the consistent responses to your posts

[basketballRob]

Agree…I really hope not because, if he was, he’d be out of the league. I’d like to see him try to score 20ppg and not be a position we need to upgrade.

Yeah, I think about 10% of Magic fans agree with you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

You might want to re-read the thread Rob, particularly the consistent responses to your posts

You just said it was a position we need to upgrade and the majority don't agree with you.

It's funny to me that a couple of posters here wants a PG that can shoot 3's but for years be happy with a center that couldn't play defense.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Bergmaniac]

Well, since the majority says so, the debate is over. Wait, that's not how it works. Most people are clueless and this is especially true for sports fans online.

I got downvoted on Reddit for stating the undeniable fact that Fultz is a draft bust and won't be in the Top 10 in a redraft. That's the majority for you. They think Fultz is a star because he makes a fancy layup once in a while and was a former 1 pick.

[fendilim]

A much improved Suggs or, more realistically, a player to be named later.

Suggs. His shooting form isnt broken, he is better getting all the way to the rim, he is better defender and he is younger. If we were a good playoff team Suggs should come of the bench and both Fultz and Anthony should be out of or at the end of rotation. I was always down on Cole and seeing how limited of a player Fultz still is after all these years i would void his contract after the season.

I could see Suggs at either guard spot...as SG/lockdown specialist, next to Scoot/Jordan Poole/FVV type at PG
or, at PG, next to Huerter/ Dick, GTJ/Herro type

...either way, Suggs must become more reliable. If he would just develop a reliable 3 from 1 or 2 spots (corner?) and continue his general improvement. He has struggled, but I wouldn't consider trading him without a serious return. I keep saying he's got the "IT" factor. If he can stay healthy, I expect to be significantly better this year (not just 3 years from now).

To me, I’d rather have Suggs at PG and draft someone like Miller or a lengthy SG. We’ve already got something going with lengthy playmakers, moving Suggs to the SG and adding a new PG might just bring us back to where we started. I think we got something with this long, lengthy disruptive lineup that can play offense and defense. No need to go back.