Has it not become overwhelmingly clear (even to management) it's time to blow this up?

[JShuttlesworth]

It was clear a long time ago, this should have happened last summer at the absolute latest.

Masai and Bobby seem to be a little slow footed when it comes to rebuilding. They are avoiding it at all costs, it's bizarre to me

[MAD ROB]

I agree that OKC has found a lot of players outside of the 1st round/Draft that are real contributors (you know like the Raptors use to do). WRT to the quick v. fast re-build that is the whole risk v. reward calculus.

I rather they swing big and sell (especially when OG and Pascal maybe be at their apex of worth) because I'm pretty certain that if they have another season like this next year those guys are walking in FA and then we are really screwed.

[goinrogue]

Masai may want to blow it up and build around Scottie but it’s possible his bosses said no.

[KrazyP]

Theres not much time left for this team to turn this season around. Every game is a must win. If there isnt a clearly defined upward trend by the end-Jan, I think management will blow it up.

The performance against the Hawks was just unacceptable. You're at home, facing the team directly above you who's on a road back-2-back and you start the game down something like 20-2? We dont even know whats wrong here....you can blame management for assembling an unbalanced roster but its the same roster that flirted with 50 wins last year, you can blame Nurse...perhaps opposing teams have all figured out our system or you can blame the players for inconsistent effort and complete no-shows far too often.

Whatever it is, its not working. You can advocate for pushing forward and building on the fly IF you're winning games, have great team chemistry and are developing young players in the best way possible....this team currently is not doing these things.

[Duffman100]

Masai may want to blow it up and build around Scottie but it’s possible his bosses said no.

This is the X factor that many of us don't consider. Even Masai reports to someone and those people have bosses. It's possible he's being strong-handed into a play-in / first round for financial reasons. I'd hope that Masai has more autonomy and control than that..but who knows.

[agkagk]

We’re a 20 minute a night centre and a backup point guard away from being a top ten team.

Blowing it up would be a huge overreaction.

[TorontoBarneys]

Masai may want to blow it up and build around Scottie but it’s possible his bosses said no.

This is the X factor that many of us don't consider. Even Masai reports to someone and those people have bosses. It's possible he's being strong-handed into a play-in / first round for financial reasons. I'd hope that Masai has more autonomy and control than that..but who knows.

I feel like the guy who won them their 1st championship should have enough influence in order to successfully convince them of any plan of his at the moment. Isn't our owner pretty legit?

[Steelo Green]

We kind of sort of maybe look like trash?

[ATLTimekeeper]

I agree that OKC has found a lot of players outside of the 1st round/Draft that are real contributors (you know like the Raptors use to do). WRT to the quick v. fast re-build that is the whole risk v. reward calculus.

I rather they swing big and sell (especially when OG and Pascal maybe be at their apex of worth) because I'm pretty certain that if they have another season like this next year those guys are walking in FA and then we are really screwed.

I've looked at this a whole bunch over the years and the reward is typically the same as just trying to win without blowing it up, so I always think it's better to just try and win with what you have in the constraints of your market. I agree there's risks with Siakam signing that next deal and OG.

[TorontoBarneys]

We’re a 20 minute a night centre and a backup point guard away from being a top ten team.

Blowing it up would be a huge overreaction.

This is an absurd take.

The Raptors need to go 27-12 over their final 39, a .692 pace, or a 57-win season to get to 46 wins. That's good for 6th seed, barely enough to avoid the play-in. The only teams playing at that level are the Celtics, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. It's time to face reality.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

just move on these guys like what the Jays management failed to do with Donaldson, Bautista and Encarnacion.

FVV is on the forefront of this movement. followed by Siakam. somewhere between the two, GTJ as well (if they aren't planning to resign him - i mean if they move FVV, resign GTJ as a possibility)

the half court offense has been quite **** with FVV at the helm. obviously personnel changes are required as well throughout the roster but the lackadaisal season is a reflection of your leaders in FVV and Siakam.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Masai may want to blow it up and build around Scottie but it’s possible his bosses said no.

This is the X factor that many of us don't consider. Even Masai reports to someone and those people have bosses. It's possible he's being strong-handed into a play-in / first round for financial reasons. I'd hope that Masai has more autonomy and control than that..but who knows.

Doubt it. They allowed the Leafs to tank for several seasons in a row. The financial gains of play-in and first round really aren't that much. It gets overrated as an influence on direction. I could see owners being frustrated that Masai's vision has led to two bad seasons, and demanding more accountability (coach firing, executive shuffle), or wanting to shake up the roster a bit.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Masai may want to blow it up and build around Scottie but it’s possible his bosses said no.

This is the X factor that many of us don't consider. Even Masai reports to someone and those people have bosses. It's possible he's being strong-handed into a play-in / first round for financial reasons. I'd hope that Masai has more autonomy and control than that..but who knows.

ya i'm just having some PTSD of the Jays moving slowly on their rebuild and accumulating young assets in the last decade.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Masai may want to blow it up and build around Scottie but it’s possible his bosses said no.

This is the X factor that many of us don't consider. Even Masai reports to someone and those people have bosses. It's possible he's being strong-handed into a play-in / first round for financial reasons. I'd hope that Masai has more autonomy and control than that..but who knows.

Doubt it. They allowed the Leafs to tank for several seasons in a row. The financial gains of play-in and first round really aren't that much. It gets overrated as an influence on direction. I could see owners being frustrated that Masai's vision has led to two bad seasons, and demanding more accountability (coach firing, executive shuffle), or wanting to shake up the roster a bit.

leafs are a different story imho. they suck and people still go watch. Raptors start sucking and they noticeably losing people in seats.

[Boogie_Smooth]

it's been mentioned here multiple times but it takes guts to trade away fan favourites and long time players, an I tend to think that the FO may overvalue our players which gets in the way of meaningfully improving the team through trades.

It would take huge cojones to trade a player like Siakam when he is having the best season of his career, trade value at its highest ever. The issue is there isn't really a team that is going all in, has all their picks (and may be lottery bound), and young players in return.

The Pelicans is the only one that comes to mind, but I'm not sure if they are being pressured to go all in at this point. Maybe in the offseason depending on how close they feel they are.

The Knicks may feel pressured, but their picks and young players are nothing to feel too excited about. Unless they are willing to send over their own picks unprotected, but I wonder how good those would be if you have a Brunson, Siakam, Randall to keep the team above water for the next few years with Kat a potential FA that can come along.

The Suns may be an interesting trade partner, but again with Booker, Siakam, Bridges they may be a long shot to really stink.

Sacramento is an interesting team, and I see a world where there owner meddles with the FO and demands that they go all in this year to ensure the playoffs. Their picks may be good if and when the West gets better, and Murray is a good piece to build around. Their may be something there.

[ItsDanger]

A casual observer from business standpoint would look at the Raptors and conclude management needs to be removed, why isn't action being taken in this situation. If you're honest that is.

[Boogie_Smooth]

Masai has to do something now because he has two pending free agents in FVV and Trent Jr - even though big deals are easier to make in the off-season.

I would trade Fred before the deadline and re-sign Gary this summer.

Agreed, if the team really does want to "blow it up" then it probably makes more sense that FVV and Siakam gets dealt before OG/GTJ. Maybe its time to formally acknowledge the end of the 2019 Raptors and move forward with a new nucleus

[ATLTimekeeper]

it's been mentioned here multiple times but it takes guts to trade away fan favourites and long time players, an I tend to think that the FO may overvalue our players which gets in the way of meaningfully improving the team through trades.

It would take huge cojones to trade a player like Siakam when he is having the best season of his career, trade value at its highest ever. The issue is there isn't really a team that is going all in, has all their picks (and may be lottery bound), and young players in return.

No, fans get over that quickly. Does anyone resent Masai for trading Lowry? DeMar?

It takes some guts to go from winning to losing on purpose, which is why GMs won't do that unless they are taking over a new organization (Utah) or they have horrible ownership (OKC). The issue with trading Siakam is that he's really good and in his prime, and it's hard to get players that are really good. And especially so in a non-FA destination like Toronto. You really can only trade for one, and we've only executed one trade in franchise history for a player better than Siakam is now, or you draft one, and we've only drafted two such players in Toronto's entire history, the last one being in 1998. My guess is if Siakam is content to see what Masai and company can do to get them back on track next year, they should keep him. If he wants out, they should move him.

[bluerap23]

If the teardown is upon us it won't start until the deadline. That's when you get the best return for expiring deals. In the case of Pascal and OG, if they are to be traded it will likely be in the offseason - also because better return.

If we want to lose games that can be accomplished pretty easily either way. Just cut starter minutes down to 30.

[OakleyDokely]

The Raps overachieved last year and won 48 games, finishing 5th in the conference. The idea that the Raps should've blown it up in the offseason after overachieving is a pretty ridiculous notion.