Truth or False: James Harden is currently a top 10 player again?

[Harry Garris]

No he's not and in playoffs you'll see why

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

They don't matter for the MVP because that is a regular season award. But generally if you ask whether a guy is a "top 10 player" you want to know whether he'll keep that level of play into the playoffs as well.

I hope Harden does maintain his level of play into the playoffs, I'm not rooting against him. We just have a 10 year+ track record of his level of play falling off the second the playoffs begin at this point.

[bisme37]

He's playing very well but not top 10. There are a lot of elite players right now. Sometimes I think a guy must be top 10 and then I count them out and there are more "top 10 players" than spots in the actual top 10 haha.

[NBA4Lyfe]

He's playing very well but not top 10. There are a lot of elite players right now. Sometimes I think a guy must be top 10 and then I count them out and there are more "top 10 players" than spots in the actual top 10 haha.

it just seems like people ignore the advanced stats when it comes to harden, and i dont know why

like harden is still probably the most double teamed player in the league

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en/metrics/double-teams

[GreatWhiteStiff]

for people who havent watched him a lot. I dont think hes a top 10 player, but he has an argument for top 15. Reason being is that he has diversified his game.

Harden has begun to take short jumpshots and do shot creation in the midrange. Sam cassel finally got to him. He is shooting double the volume from what he normally does in his career and is making it at a pretty high level. so hes become less reliant on foul baiting.

Watch on YouTube

hes better on spot shots and being more shot ready, the last 10 ish games especially

he has more burst and lift at the bucket. this version of harden is the least likely to be an offensive dud in the postseason.

I actually predicted Harden would develop a midrange game in a few years, a few years ago, so I'll enjoy these highlights/Harden making midranged shots.

[Lockdown504090]

for people who havent watched him a lot. I dont think hes a top 10 player, but he has an argument for top 15. Reason being is that he has diversified his game.

Harden has begun to take short jumpshots and do shot creation in the midrange. Sam cassel finally got to him. He is shooting double the volume from what he normally does in his career and is making it at a pretty high level. so hes become less reliant on foul baiting.

Watch on YouTube

hes better on spot shots and being more shot ready, the last 10 ish games especially

he has more burst and lift at the bucket. this version of harden is the least likely to be an offensive dud in the postseason.

I actually predicted Harden would develop a midrange game in a few years, a few years ago, so I'll enjoy these highlights/Harden making midranged shots.

if he can get these off in the PO, he will have gone from the goldenchild of paint/3 analytics to proving the value of the in between game.

[youngcrev]

God no, but he's at least back to All Star caliber form which is a major plus.

I don't even know where I'd be comfortable putting him. Top-25? 30?

Even just looking at guards I have a tough time knowing where to place him with guys like Haliburton, SGA, Trae, CP3, Garland, Fox, Edwards, Beal, George, Brunson, Brown, Kyrie...

Throw in DeRozan, JJJ, Sabonis, Ingram, Siakam, KAT, Go Gobert...

He's been brilliant at times running the offense, but he also has these head scratching lapses at times where he basically just gives the ball away. The step back has looked great, but he still struggles to get by guys (particularly if teams can just switch the PnR). And the defense is what it is.

I think he's one of the toughest guys in the league to put a finger on in terms of how to rank him, and I'm never sure what's smoke and mirrors and what's actually going to carry through to the postseason with him.

Guys I think there's no debate on presuming health: Giannis, Joker, Luka, Embiid, Tatum, KD, Curry, Butler, Mitchell, Booker, Lebron, Kawhi, AD, Dame, Zion... After that the waters get pretty murky in general, particularly with Harden. I could see like 20, but someone could say like 35 and I'd find it completely reasonable.

[youngcrev]

He's playing very well but not top 10. There are a lot of elite players right now. Sometimes I think a guy must be top 10 and then I count them out and there are more "top 10 players" than spots in the actual top 10 haha.

it just seems like people ignore the advanced stats when it comes to harden, and i dont know why

like harden is still probably the most double teamed player in the league

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en/metrics/double-teams

That stat doesn't really pass the eye test to me. I'd be curious on what they use as their criteria for a double team. Presumably a lot of standard pick and roll coverages (anything but a switch) end up qualifying based on the numbers they have.

I think that's a little different then say, Embiid, who frequently gets doubled the second he catches the ball inside of the 3 point line.

Teams aren't throwing 2 guys at Harden just to get the ball out of his hands.

[Jadoogar]

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Jokic was the best player on the floor in the playoffs last year. His team lost...but his was spectacular.

STOP Jokic was literally taken off the court late in the 4th quarter of multiple playoff games because Poole and curry we’re destroying him on switches

Playoffs don’t matter in context to mvp and all nba selections

How many centers does Curry not destroy in switches? He dropped 40 on elite Celtics defense in the finals.

[tsherkin]

I actually predicted Harden would develop a midrange game in a few years, a few years ago, so I'll enjoy these highlights/Harden making midranged shots.

It's about bloody time. Hope it helps him come the playoffs, too, because that's where he his traditional variance is the most problematic.

[Uncle Mxy]

Harden is again one of the top 10 players on his team, yes.

[dhsilv2]

I actually predicted Harden would develop a midrange game in a few years, a few years ago, so I'll enjoy these highlights/Harden making midranged shots.

It's about bloody time. Hope it helps him come the playoffs, too, because that's where he his traditional variance is the most problematic.

What is crazy to me is that I've seen him go down and post someone up in his rocket days, it was an effortless 2 points and then he wouldn't do it again for a month...

[GeorgeSears]

10 players better than Harden right now:

Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Tatum, Durant, Steph, AD, Shai, Zion, Ja.

I wouldn't take him over any of those guys.

Is he top 20? That's a much more interesting discussion.

[Karate Diop]

Because defense is a thing, no. Doesn't really matter though, he's still a fantastic regular season player.

[BelgradeNugget]

Playoffs don’t matter in this discussion when ranking players, if they did jokic certainly wouldnt be on pace to winning his 3rd straight mvp after almost being swept in the 1st round last year when he won it.

Im strictly saying will James harden make an all nba team this year. I could care less about the playoffs

Jokic was the best player on the floor in the playoffs last year. His team lost...but his was spectacular.

STOP Jokic was literally taken off the court late in the 4th quarter of multiple playoff games because Poole and curry we’re destroying him on switches

Playoffs don’t matter in context to mvp and all nba selections

Lie alert, lie alert, BS on horizon.

game 1 - Jokic was taken off the court with Nuggets down 20 and 3 mins left. Coaches do that every time when game is lost
https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401429875

game 2 - ejected with 7 mins left
https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401430247

game 3 - close game on court in cluch
https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401430250

game 4,5 - replaced for one switch all defend 3 defensive position, right back in after timeout
https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401430253
https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401430255

You know which coach also replaced his centar for one swich all defensive position in POs? Popovic with Duncan. So unlike your favorite player and team Jokic never disappointed in POs. Harden and 76ers disappoint year after year.

Back to topic, Harden is playing great, if 76ers find way to get maximum production from Harden, Embiid and Maxey at the same time, they could be one of the best teams in the league.

[NBA4Lyfe]

He's playing very well but not top 10. There are a lot of elite players right now. Sometimes I think a guy must be top 10 and then I count them out and there are more "top 10 players" than spots in the actual top 10 haha.

it just seems like people ignore the advanced stats when it comes to harden, and i dont know why

like harden is still probably the most double teamed player in the league

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en/metrics/double-teams

That stat doesn't really pass the eye test to me. I'd be curious on what they use as their criteria for a double team. Presumably a lot of standard pick and roll coverages (anything but a switch) end up qualifying based on the numbers they have.

I think that's a little different then say, Embiid, who frequently gets doubled the second he catches the ball inside of the 3 point line.

Teams aren't throwing 2 guys at Harden just to get the ball out of his hands.

See this kind of response is what I’m talking about. You see the stat but because it doesn’t fit your narrative you don’t accept it. This is why harden is not a 3 time mvp and hasn’t made all nba in 3 years. This bias among certain or most nba voters hurts players like harden in the long run. And cost them potential supermax contracts

[NBA4Lyfe]

10 players better than Harden right now:

Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Tatum, Durant, Steph, AD, Shai, Zion, Ja.

I wouldn't take him over any of those guys.

Is he top 20? That's a much more interesting

discussion.

IMO Hardens advanced stats are better than Mitchell’s and currys

Will harden be robbed of all nba and another supermax . Stay tuned for scenes from the next episode of dragonball z

[youngcrev]

it just seems like people ignore the advanced stats when it comes to harden, and i dont know why

like harden is still probably the most double teamed player in the league

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en/metrics/double-teams

That stat doesn't really pass the eye test to me. I'd be curious on what they use as their criteria for a double team. Presumably a lot of standard pick and roll coverages (anything but a switch) end up qualifying based on the numbers they have.

I think that's a little different then say, Embiid, who frequently gets doubled the second he catches the ball inside of the 3 point line.

Teams aren't throwing 2 guys at Harden just to get the ball out of his hands.

See this kind of response is what I’m talking about. You see the stat but because it doesn’t fit your narrative you don’t accept it. This is why harden is not a 3 time mvp and hasn’t made all nba in 3 years. This bias among certain or most nba voters hurts players like harden in the long run. And cost them potential supermax contracts

What narrative would that be? I watch him play every game. I wouldn't say he gets doubled anywhere near as frequently as Embiid, so I'm questioning what they consider a double team. Their criteria seems extremely loose based on the percentages they have for most of those guys.

[NZB2323]

I think there’s a clear top 7 this year of Jokic, Doncic, Curry, Giannis, Tatum, Durant, and Embiid.

I think that AD, Shai, Zion, Butler, Lebron, Dame, Sabonis, Morant, Mitchell, Haliburton, Markkanen, and Booker all have arguments over Harden, but he’s in that group.

So someone in the 8-20 range. His advanced stats are good but he’s not the best offensive player on his own team and he’s been bad defensively.

[dhsilv2]

He's playing very well but not top 10. There are a lot of elite players right now. Sometimes I think a guy must be top 10 and then I count them out and there are more "top 10 players" than spots in the actual top 10 haha.

it just seems like people ignore the advanced stats when it comes to harden, and i dont know why

like harden is still probably the most double teamed player in the league

https://nbacourtoptix.nba.com/en/metrics/double-teams

18th in VORP, 18th in WS, 14th in BPM, 10th in WS/48, 18th in PER, 8th in RPM, 31st in RPM WINS...

He's missed a lot of games. His box metrics don't make a case for top 10. The real plus minus stuff is likely too small a sample with him to get much. The general view is his defense is terrible this year.

Nobody is ignore stats with Harden.

[Bum Adebayo]

He has finally surpassed Melton as our 2nd best player, I think he is just top 20-ish though.