Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Whole Truth]

Saw a post I want to piggy back on.

Top 3 Pels scorers

- CJ = 806
- Zion = 754
- Jonas = 624

Efficiency -

29 GS - Zion = 469 FGA's (61%)
43 GS - Jonas = 454 FGA's (53%)
38 GS - CJ = 699 FGA's (43%)

takeaways -

Jonas dip in career 60% efficiency = being asked to stretch the floor
CJ played 9 more games than Zion for + 230 FGA's, Who's the #1 option again ?
Took CJ 245 more FGA's than Jonas to put up 182 more points.
Despite teams building Walls & Zion's level of defensive focus, he's still extremely efficient with what has been poor spacing so far.
Ingram is missing from this list.
If Zion & BI were more healthy, would CJ still be topping this list in FGA's on lesser efficiency ? I'd say yes.

[Whole Truth]

With the Pels not being healthy all yr.. they should be avoiding risky trades.

Minimal risk, buy low, potential high reward.

As most posting here know, I've been on the Poeltl trade wagon since the offseason but appearantly the price is wrong for the expiring centre.

Sacramento Kings - Richard Holmes is being made available, cost 2, 2nd rounders & matching salary..

He signed a four-year, $46 million contract in the 2021 offseason. But the 29-year-old has played in just 26 of Sacramento’s 40 games so far this season and is averaging 2.7 points, 2.0 rebounds, and 0.2 assists in nine minutes.

Pels trade - (Devonte Graham, Hermangomez, cash considerations, 2 2nds) for (Holmes).

[Whole Truth]

Another potential cheap target IMO-

Raptors - Boucher 12.7m

- same salary package of Hermangomez & Graham depending on pick/value compensation. Boucher can potentially stretch the floor with some defensive. When Jonas forces teams to go small, he should be able to advantage that. His weakness is his strength in the post, not his versatility.

[Duke4life831]

Another potential cheap target IMO-

Raptors - Boucher 12.7m

- same salary package of Hermangomez & Graham depending on pick/value compensation. Boucher can potentially stretch the floor with some defensive. When Jonas forces teams to go small, he should be able to advantage that. His weakness is his strength in the post, not his versatility.

I like the Boucher name drop. My only issue with Boucher is it seems like he lost his shot or 2021 was just an outlier year. But wouldnt be against it if they made the move to trade for him.

Ive been watching a lot of Magic this year, I still think Bamba can be a solid backup 5 to trade for. 38% from 3 last year and this year so far. Also only making 10 mil so an easy contract to find the salaries to match.

I do think there are 2 spots that can be upgraded in the rotation.

1. What we've been talking about with the backup 5 spot. Ideally in that Boucher/Bamba realm of athletic bigs that can block shots and hit 3s.

2. A replacement for Graham. An off ball guard that is a catch and shoot threat. The issue with Graham is he is tiny and he is only shooting 33% from 3 in a Pels uniform. If they can get a legit 2 guard who can move off the ball and be a legit 3pt shooter (38-40%), that could be a nice valuable upgrade. Because there is very little perimeter shooting once you get outside of BI, CJ and Trey. And like weve said multiple times, CJ and BI are much more dribble and shoot guys. Then with Trey, he is off ball but much more of a set catch and shoot guy. Someone that can run off screens and shoot on the move would be a nice addition.

[Whole Truth]

Another potential cheap target IMO-

Raptors - Boucher 12.7m

- same salary package of Hermangomez & Graham depending on pick/value compensation. Boucher can potentially stretch the floor with some defensive. When Jonas forces teams to go small, he should be able to advantage that. His weakness is his strength in the post, not his versatility.

I like the Boucher name drop. My only issue with Boucher is it seems like he lost his shot or 2021 was just an outlier year.

Ive been watching a lot of Magic this year, I still think Bamba can be a solid backup 5 to trade for. 38% from 3 last year and this year so far. Also only making 10 mil so an easy contract to find the salaries to match.

I do think there are 2 spots that can be upgraded in the rotation.

1. What we've been talking about with the backup 5 spot. Ideally in that Boucher/Bamba realm of athletic bigs that can block shots and hit 3s.

2. A replacement for Graham. An off ball guard that is a catch and shoot threat. The issue with Graham is he is tiny and he is only shooting 33% from 3 in a Pels uniform. If they can get a legit 2 guard who can move off the ball and be a legit 3pt shooter (38-40%), that could be a nice valuable upgrade. Because there is very little perimeter shooting once you get outside of BI, CJ and Trey. And like weve said multiple times, CJ and BI are much more dribble and shoot guys. Then with Trey, he is off ball but much more of a set catch and shoot guy. Someone that can run off screens and shoot on the move would be a nice addition.

Yes men like Holmes, Bamba, Boucher... I mean Holmes can give starters minutes with an asking price of 2 2nds.. & the other 2 ability to stretch r a better fit.. but it comes down to asking price.

[Duke4life831]

Another potential cheap target IMO-

Raptors - Boucher 12.7m

- same salary package of Hermangomez & Graham depending on pick/value compensation. Boucher can potentially stretch the floor with some defensive. When Jonas forces teams to go small, he should be able to advantage that. His weakness is his strength in the post, not his versatility.

I like the Boucher name drop. My only issue with Boucher is it seems like he lost his shot or 2021 was just an outlier year.

Ive been watching a lot of Magic this year, I still think Bamba can be a solid backup 5 to trade for. 38% from 3 last year and this year so far. Also only making 10 mil so an easy contract to find the salaries to match.

I do think there are 2 spots that can be upgraded in the rotation.

1. What we've been talking about with the backup 5 spot. Ideally in that Boucher/Bamba realm of athletic bigs that can block shots and hit 3s.

2. A replacement for Graham. An off ball guard that is a catch and shoot threat. The issue with Graham is he is tiny and he is only shooting 33% from 3 in a Pels uniform. If they can get a legit 2 guard who can move off the ball and be a legit 3pt shooter (38-40%), that could be a nice valuable upgrade. Because there is very little perimeter shooting once you get outside of BI, CJ and Trey. And like weve said multiple times, CJ and BI are much more dribble and shoot guys. Then with Trey, he is off ball but much more of a set catch and shoot guy. Someone that can run off screens and shoot on the move would be a nice addition.

Yes men like Holmes, Bamba, Boucher... I mean Holmes can give starters minutes with an asking price of 2 2nds.. & the other 2 ability to stretch r a better fit.. but it comes down to asking price.

Ya Holmes would probably be the cheapest option. Not bad, but ya I would hope if they do make a move for another big that he has legit floor spacing potential. I like the idea of the athletic floor spacer coming off the bench. And I hope Griff would be willing to give up a little more to get that.

[Whole Truth]

Ya Holmes would probably be the cheapest option. Not bad, but ya I would hope if they do make a move for another big that he has legit floor spacing potential. I like the idea of the athletic floor spacer coming off the bench. And I hope Griff would be willing to give up a little more to get that.

It will be key to making Herb's defense playable. Zion can handle Herbs man sagging if Jonas man is not camping in the paint too. I like Green but It hasn't been often I've liked the balance of his rotations & I'm sure salary, rep among other things complicate things.. Doesn't help that CJ had been struggling to shoot, leaving Herb with BI out the only real floor spacer & even he has been off on the road aswell.

Men **** on Graham yesterday vs Cavs with CJ going 2-9 with 2 TO's to 1 assist in the first half. Green not challenging that Mitchell foul on Jonas rebound for the TO was the difference between the team going up 10 on that possession vs closing up only 3, it was a momentum shift Green had a chance to squash.

I've been reading trade talk on the boards & I'm simply going to say to management... DO NOT entertain trading Herb.

Remain on the same page as u... this team needs another defensive stretch 4/5, Jax's development is seemingly just too far away for where this team is at & this team has not been fully healthy to fully guage the wing/guard rotation.

Lakers have looked better but I'm weary about trading any of the Lakers picks.. Relatively healthy, they still remain in range of landing Wemba with their schedule getting tougher for the 2nd half.. Would u entertain floating that potential 23 pick with Hayes & Graham for something like OG & Boucher ? hope for something tangible to making this team markedly better now..

I wouldn't want to be making that call but OG & Boucher would round out this teams holes nicely. Not a chance I would have Herb n that deal.. (Do not trade the 24/25 pick). but to keep Herb, utilize the remaing picks because this team at some point will need to consolidate both their bench depth & picks.. Herb is a keeper & his offense will bounce back. Like Jose , he hasn't been right since injury. Time heals all wounds.

Patience is key.

[Whole Truth]

Men talking about Jonas rim protection vs Suns PO's last yr. Suns had Ayton top of the key to draw Jonas in space & away from the boards he was dominating for the series, lol. Ayton rarely created his own offense. Like Mcgree the majority of their offense came off an assist. CP3 got to all his spots that Green had to try & put Herb on him leaving Bridges to go off. Reason for drafting a big defensive gaurd in Daniels.

Suns had no drop off from Ayton to McGee. Apparently to these posters, Jonas was guarding both starter & bench, lol. The difference between Ayton/Mcgee & Jonas/Pels bigmen... Suns had CP3 assisting all their buckets while Pels had CJ shooting 30% on volume & not shifting the D for the series. Game 3 which Ayton dominated with Booker out, Jonas had 5 FGA's mostly off his offensive rebounding, so Ayton got ample rest on defense from a lack of involvement. Game 4 Pels made an effort to get Jonas more involved, Pels as a direct result, won game 4 in a blow out.

Part of me would like to see a Jonas/Ayton swap, lol.

.

[TorontoBarneys]

Seen it a few times on the Raps' board and the T&T board but would you guys do it?

OG for Daniels and Graham+LAL 1st

Do you like OG enough to pay that price?

[Duke4life831]

Seen it a few times on the Raps' board and the T&T board but would you guys do it?

OG for Daniels and Graham+LAL 1st

Do you like OG enough to pay that price?

I think thats probably a little steep (in the Pels POV, overall value seems pretty dead on though), but I guess it really depends where that LA pick ends up. Dyson was a top 10 pick and I dont think he has done anything so far this year to lower his value. Id probably do it with a protection on the LA pick (top 5 maybe). But I know Ive been slightly lower on Dyson's long term fit with this team than most Pels fans, so I think most Pels fans would say no to this. But Im sure any protections would make TOR walk and I wouldnt blame them.

[Duke4life831]

Ya Holmes would probably be the cheapest option. Not bad, but ya I would hope if they do make a move for another big that he has legit floor spacing potential. I like the idea of the athletic floor spacer coming off the bench. And I hope Griff would be willing to give up a little more to get that.

It will be key to making Herb's defense playable. Zion can handle Herbs man sagging if Jonas man is not camping in the paint too. I like Green but It hasn't been often I've liked the balance of his rotations & I'm sure salary, rep among other things complicate things.. Doesn't help that CJ had been struggling to shoot, leaving Herb with BI out the only real floor spacer & even he has been off on the road aswell.

Men **** on Graham yesterday vs Cavs with CJ going 2-9 with 2 TO's to 1 assist in the first half. Green not challenging that Mitchell foul on Jonas rebound for the TO was the difference between the team going up 10 on that possession vs closing up only 3, it was a momentum shift Green had a chance to squash.

I've been reading trade talk on the boards & I'm simply going to say to management... DO NOT entertain trading Herb.

Remain on the same page as u... this team needs another defensive stretch 4/5, Jax's development is seemingly just too far away for where this team is at & this team has not been fully healthy to fully guage the wing/guard rotation.

Lakers have looked better but I'm weary about trading any of the Lakers picks.. Relatively healthy, they still remain in range of landing Wemba with their schedule getting tougher for the 2nd half.. Would u entertain floating that potential 23 pick with Hayes & Graham for something like OG & Boucher ? hope for something tangible to making this team markedly better now..

I wouldn't want to be making that call but OG & Boucher would round out this teams holes nicely. Not a chance I would have Herb n that deal.. (Do not trade the 24/25 pick). but to keep Herb, utilize the remaing picks because this team at some point will need to consolidate both their bench depth & picks.. Herb is a keeper & his offense will bounce back. Like Jose , he hasn't been right since injury. Time heals all wounds.

Patience is key.

I agree Herb shouldnt be traded. Worst case scenario is you just flip Trey and Herb in the rotations. Because defenses have basically been playing Herb like they do with Thybulle. And as of right now, the spacing with Jonas and Herb causes a lot of issues. Because even with Jonas hitting a respectable 36% from 3, he's only taking 2 a game and he still really isnt warping defenses. Defenses are living with Jonas taking 3s (unless he has a game where he makes his first couple then we see defenses adjust). So that combination as of right now makes things tough. Its tough for Zion but also even tougher for CJ and BI when he returns. Because Zion's man is going to be in the paint and JOnas and Herb's man wont hesitate to crash in and help.

Of course I really like OG on this team, but like the other poster on here mentioned an OG trade. At minimum I do think Daniels would have to be tossed in on the trade. OG has plenty of trade value right now. So to get OG I think Dyson would be a requirement and the LA pick would be as well. I think the conversation really turns into can you put some kind of protection on it and still get OG. But ya the idea of OG in that starting lineup solves a bunch of possible issues. Defenses cant leave OG alone and OG still provides that elite defense like Herb does.

[Duke4life831]

I do see on the wiretap that the Pels might be interested in Bojan. Damn I hope they hop on that. He is pretty much that ideal off ball 3pt sharpshooter ive been talking about that this team could really use.

[Whole Truth]

I do see on the wiretap that the Pels might be interested in Bojan. Damn I hope they hop on that. He is pretty much that ideal off ball 3pt sharpshooter ive been talking about that this team could really use.

What's his asking price ?.

I like his game too but there's some considerable negatives to this move.

- age, he's 33
- contract, he's expiring at 33
- defense. He can playmake & shoot. The fact there's interest in this particular rental IMO speaks to BI's injury & reliability..

IMO This ttrade target is a final piece to a legit contender, Pels have played 5-10 games fully healthy.

If Pels were to make a move at the deadline, it should have long term viability, like an OG.. Problem is after acquiring CJ, someone like OG puts this team in the tax to retain. If Raptors are asking 3 picks, get Boucher thrown in the deal if not a small seperate move if OG is too expensive.

[Duke4life831]

I do see on the wiretap that the Pels might be interested in Bojan. Damn I hope they hop on that. He is pretty much that ideal off ball 3pt sharpshooter ive been talking about that this team could really use.

What's his asking price ?.

I like his game too but there's some considerable negatives to this move.

- age, he's 33
- contract, he's expiring at 33
- defense. He can playmake & shoot. The fact there's interest in this particular rental IMO speaks to BI's injury & reliability..

IMO This ttrade target is a final piece to a legit contender, Pels have played 5-10 games fully healthy.

If Pels were to make a move at the deadline, it should have long term viability, like an OG.. Problem is after acquiring CJ, someone like OG puts this team in the tax to retain. If Raptors are asking 3 picks, get Boucher thrown in the deal if not a small seperate move if OG is too expensive.

1st round, which is no doubt pretty expensive for him. Just fit wise would be really nice.

I said his name before and I’ll mention it again, if they can upgrade Graham’s spot with Grayson Allen that would be a great move. Only 27 so age wise he’s fine, cheap contract for this year and next. And fits wise he is ideal to come off the bench and be that off ball mover and sniper without being bad on the defensive end. And reports already reported that Milwaukee is open to move him. The only issue there is probably a 3rd team would be needed, I know Milwaukee wants a quality wing player in return.

[Whole Truth]

Don't hold back AD. Call it what it is, fake trash.

[Whole Truth]

Pels announcer just salvaged this night, lol..

Down 30 with the game out of reach, 1 min left, ref finally calls a travel on Miami who were travelling all night. Man say, "you don't see that often"", despite noting all the clear travel violations during the game, LMAO.

Hard to find a rythym in a game refs let a team defend by fouling, get to the line while throwing intentional elbows, clearly travell without violation while the other team is called for them & stepping out of bounds as if boundries don't exist ... lol.

Chicken/egg.. Did the Pels play this bad or was it partly due to refs controlling the flow of the game ? Notice whenever Pels got close to getting this game into single digits there was a series of bad calls & or non calls that helped Miami open back up their lead.

Not sure Pels would have won this one if the game was called down the line but I tip my cap to corrupt, manipulated ****. If the league is not behind it, this reffing crew should be looking for a new profession.

[Duke4life831]

Refs or not, they werent going to win that game. You can only expect role players to play above their role for so long until they fall back to what they really are. Tonight I think was a perfect example of this. CJ dropped 21 on solid shooting, Jonas went 18/10 on elite efficiency. Then there was no one else. And to be clear this isnt me bashing those guys, they arent supposed to have this role.

Trey is super inconsistent with at least 2 of trio out there. Dyson's just not there on offense yet. You dont want Naji taking double digit shots. All of these guys are asking to play roles above their heads and ya, you miss your top 2 players its going to start to take a toll on the W-L record.

I will say this as probably his biggest defender on this site. It went from being day to day right after the injury, to now it seems like we are getting close to a month now since reports of BI's toe being healed but its just a confidence thing now. I have to assume frustration levels within that team/front office has to start getting pretty high.

[Whole Truth]

Refs or not, they werent going to win that game. You can only expect role players to play above their role for so long until they fall back to what they really are. Tonight I think was a perfect example of this. CJ dropped 21 on solid shooting, Jonas went 18/10 on elite efficiency. Then there was no one else. And to be clear this isnt me bashing those guys, they arent supposed to have this role.

Trey is super inconsistent with at least 2 of trio out there. Dyson's just not there on offense yet. You dont want Naji taking double digit shots. All of these guys are asking to play roles above their heads and ya, you miss your top 2 players its going to start to take a toll on the W-L record.

I will say this as probably his biggest defender on this site. It went from being day to day right after the injury, to now it seems like we are getting close to a month now since reports of BI's toe being healed but its just a confidence thing now. I have to assume frustration levels within that team/front office has to start getting pretty high.

Don't get ne wrong.. I agree & said as much to end my post. However, basketball is a game of confidence/rythym & the refs controlled that.. What happens to young role players & a team missing 3 starters, when things don't go their way ? ya see what I'm saying.. Lakers without Lebron & AD beat this team by 1 directly because they got all the calls/non calls (30+ FT's, +15 on the line) while Heat players were complaining about their non calls.. Subjectivity, which we saw last night, controls games. Those 2 offensive Heat elbows last night would have been 2 flagrant calls in the Lakers match with certainty. Maybe even an ejection on the 2nd elbow considering what Herb was ejected for vs the Cats last yr which was more of a shooting motion... So instead of a flagrant, possible ejection. Heat were at the line for 2. One play, 6-7 point potential swing depending on it being a flagrant 2 ejection like Herb would have got..

When Pels were getting some offensive rythym & got the game to within 11.. Heat commit a clear travel violation without a call for a 2, then off an offensive foul, Lowry hits a 3 baseline where the entire Pels bench point to the line with no out of bounds call to allow another potential 12 point swing/sequence. Spo only had to burn one timeout to keep the young undermanned Pels from getting into a rythym as a result.. Another sequence, Bam fouls Jonas on a rebound, no call. He gets the ball as a result, then gets an &1 out of it with Jonas hands straight up. Look a couple posts back, I say the same thing about Deadmon in the Lakers game when the shoe was on the other foot, Spo was smiling for a reason. Say what u want about the Pels players & play. This game was in the bag before the tip.

[Whole Truth]

Concerning BI... lack of confidence, in what?, his game or the fact he's scared he may get injured again ?

Is it possible he's making a different point by sitting ? I read somewhere he was not happy about his usage & role with Zion playing in the past. Was there any friction with him before injury ?

[Whole Truth]

Sometimes I wonder if I just see the game different. Some fans were talking about the teams defense being the main problem last night.. As you point out Duke, Pels had only 2 players going offensively. Heat were playing with high condifedence on both ends. They got away with holding & grabbin on defense/boards, u can call it defensive reputation if u want, they weren't allowed anywhere near those calls vs LA without AD & Lebron, lol. So with Pels struggling to put the ball in the hoop as a collective, there's just a different confidence on offense when u not worried about stopping another team.. There was no defensive pressure on the Heat all night..

They double Jonas early got a couple TO's out of it & the rest of the game was the guards cheaply turning the ball over & putting up bricks where Jonas defense can't play in high inefficiecny.

Took Green 4 quarter to figure out how to get Jonas involved offensively with the game out of reach. I recomend him pulling some tape when Jonas dominated Bam with Memphis playing with (2nd yr Ja, Allen, Brooks, Anderson)..

Speaking of Allen & your intertest in him.. Watched him in Memphis.. He was inconsistent & often injured. Bucks showed interest & r now putting him back on the market. U migh like his game & fit but I see a red flag.