Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[moss_is_1]

The craziest thing is Minnesota fans are so down on Russell that their is little bias. I'm probably going to get roasted for saying this but Russell is way better than we think.

I agree. This may shock you, coming from an accused DLo-hater, but over on the Trade Board I thought the “DLo Sucks” crowd has overwhelmed anyone actually looking at his stats, and posted them alongside guys like VanVleet, Conley, and Lowry, to show that they were too down on him.

I don’t like DLo’s flaws, but he is smart, wants to help younger players, is a very good shooter and scorer, and a decent passer. I think that gets lost because people focus on his high salary (hey- it’s not his fault someone offered him a max deal) and his lack of defensive effort (which is better this year). I want people to see DLo for what he is, the bad AND the good, so they can talk about him realistically

I think he would welcome being a bigger part of am offense. He's just not a great fit here as a secondary scorer. We need more defense, ball movement and someone to hit open shots. Dlo still thinks he deserves to be the man somewhere, and clearly it won't be here. He can score in spots, but he's not athletic enough to consistently be relied on for us, imo.

About McDermott, whether his contract is bad depends on what you look at. He was a starter for the Spurs all last season. As a starter, his 13.75M was not out of line. At least, I wouldn’t say so, in the modern NBA.

In his personal history, McDermott has mostly been a bench player, tho, and he is now coming off the bench for the Spurs. His contract is high for a bench player, in my judgment.

But then, if you look at the really bad “gunner” contracts - Duncan Robinson, Davis Bertans - McD’s price doesn’t look bad at all, in comparison. Everything is relative, I guess.

So… what would you want him to do? Only used as a gunner, coming off the bench, playing limited minutes, or more than that?

I think he's more than just a gunner. He can handle some and pass, but he's pretty bad defensively. I would be open to using him in sort of a 6th man role replacing Nowell.

[JeffReal]

About McDermott, whether his contract is bad depends on what you look at. He was a starter for the Spurs all last season. As a starter, his 13.75M was not out of line. At least, I wouldn’t say so, in the modern NBA.

In his personal history, McDermott has mostly been a bench player, tho, and he is now coming off the bench for the Spurs. His contract is high for a bench player, in my judgment.

But then, if you look at the really bad “gunner” contracts - Duncan Robinson, Davis Bertans - McD’s price doesn’t look bad at all, in comparison. Everything is relative, I guess.

So… what would you want him to do? Only used as a gunner, coming off the bench, playing limited minutes, or more than that?

He’s mainly just filler here. Certainly not starting, and may get DNP-CD’s.

Well, for that, I’d have to call McD’s contract “bad.” It’s certainly too much for a deep bench player, a player who may not always be in the rotation.

Back to an earlier trade mention, I don’t think the Spurs would have any interest in Naz Reid, as the Spurs stand at the moment, anyway. They wouldn’t have any minutes for him. A trade of Poeltl or Collins might not even change that, since the Spurs also have two young centers they’re looking at (currently with the G league team.)

Got anybody besides a center to move?

Oh, and what kind of draft picks are we talking about?

[JeffReal]

…
He’s slow and a very poor defender. Here, he’s a bigger Bryn Forbes, or a smarter Matt Ryan. I wish he was the Mike Miller- archetype, but he isn’t. A MIN deal is just to clear his negative salary off the Spurs books and turn it into additional cap space for your GM to sell like Presti, not because we want McDermott.

I didn’t notice this the first time I replied. I don’t think a cap space argument would fly with the Spurs, for trading McD. They are currently below the salary floor by over $14 M. They’re going to have to write bonus checks to the players, to get up to the salary minimum, as it stands. This version of the Spurs may be bad, but at least it’s cheap. Lol

[Klomp]

Anyone wanna try to create a trade combining the rumors of LAC/MIN interest in Conley along with LAC shopping Wall for frontcourt depth and Minnesota shopping Russell for a PG?

[SO_MONEY]

This thread depresses me so much. I don't know if it is the state of the team or the lack of awareness that bothers me more. If people do not understand by this point the team is in shambles, there is no way to repair the damage to get back to where we were, or that we are stuck in a pitfall bound to last a decade...then I think paint chips were involved!

This was the year for this to work and should have been, but probably wasn't the impetus for the Gobert trade. Far more likely human elements took over things like desperation and instant gratification, not to mention outright incompetence.

Now, hand to God, we have people wanting to double down on this mistake, something which should have been an unforgivable sin as a fan. What the ever-loving hell? Can we not at least be introspective and internally honest at this point?

None of this really matters because in effect all opportunity has been stolen and complete indifference is warranted irrespective of ill-advised or fly by night schemes which would only randomly and probably marginally affect any outcome. I don't think this however changes the reality that the proper moves today are not dissimilar to the moves that should have been made prior to this unmitigated disaster and baffling as to why people refuse to see it.

1. We need to try to re-sign Naz and Nowell, we screwed this up and they should have never become UFAs. This is the same thing we SHOULD have done entering into the season. You hope they build value or become productive on qusi-value contracts.

2. We need to trade KAT, this SHOULD have been done years ago. Now there are likely diminishing returns, who cares at this point? It needs to be done this off-season.

3. We need to trade our useful vets that do not fit with ANT's timeline or are redundant, this SHOULD have been a player like Beasley, Beverly ect..., now it is Anderson, Prince ect...

4. We need to sell out of large contracts if we can, yes this includes DLo, but also Rudy. Any assets you can get regardless of the initial investment is the right move. DLo might get minor assets for the future and obviously could have been used in a bigger deal this past off-season. As for Rudy, same as with the time of the trade, he is a negative asset, he is a player you should have acquired picks for taking back with where this team was. Now, let's shorten that contract up if we can and not give away anything beyond a second or two, hopefully just in a swap of a bad contract that is a year shorter...rinse and repeat for a couple of years.

5. Build around ANT, McDaniels, Naz, Nowell and any other players in that general age range.

In a perfect world we would have seen this, we would have built around young "hopeful stars" and depressed value players, casted off dead weight, brought in a ton of picks to offset the moving of a few of them for younger players that were risk averse and allowed for the pivoting out of if they didn't exactly fit. None of this potential exists anymore, we cannot do a soft rebuild and maintain a competitive team and in the right moves actually improve on the foundation. It is now a rip down, fire-sale to mitigate and salvage long-term damage. We do that or we dig in only to prolong the suffering which in the end will cost any chances at retaining the players we should have built around.

Now it is likely there is nothing we can do to keep the players we want in the end and they will demand trades to get out of this mess, but we have a few years to try and hope for luck and put pieces that will be useful at that time around them before reality sets in.

[moss_is_1]

This thread depresses me so much. I don't know if it is the state of the team or the lack of awareness that bothers me more. If people do not understand by this point the team is in shambles, there is no way to repair the damage to get back to where we were, or that we are stuck in a pitfall bound to last a decade...then I think paint chips were involved!

This was the year for this to work and should have been, but probably wasn't the impetus for the Gobert trade. Far more likely human elements took over things like desperation and instant gratification, not to mention outright incompetence.

Now, hand to God, we have people wanting to double down on this mistake, something which should have been an unforgivable sin as a fan. What the ever-loving hell? Can we not at least be introspective and internally honest at this point?

None of this really matters because in effect all opportunity has been stolen and complete indifference is warranted irrespective of ill-advised or fly by night schemes which would only randomly and probably marginally affect any outcome. I don't think this however changes the reality that the proper moves today are not dissimilar to the moves that should have been made prior to this unmitigated disaster and baffling as to why people refuse to see it.

1. We need to try to re-sign Naz and Nowell, we screwed this up and they should have never become UFAs. This is the same thing we SHOULD have done entering into the season. You hope they build value or become productive on qusi-value contracts.

2. We need to trade KAT, this SHOULD have been done years ago. Now there are likely diminishing returns, who cares at this point? It needs to be done this off-season.

3. We need to trade our useful vets that do not fit with ANT's timeline or are redundant, this SHOULD have been a player like Beasley, Beverly ect..., now it is Anderson, Prince ect...

4. We need to sell out of large contracts if we can, yes this includes DLo, but also Rudy. Any assets you can get regardless of the initial investment is the right move. DLo might get minor assets for the future and obviously could have been used in a bigger deal this past off-season. As for Rudy, same as with the time of the trade, he is a negative asset, he is a player you should have acquired picks for taking back with where this team was. Now, let's shorten that contract up if we can and not give away anything beyond a second or two, hopefully just in a swap of a bad contract that is a year shorter...rinse and repeat for a couple of years.

5. Build around ANT, McDaniels, Naz, Nowell and any other players in that general age range.

In a perfect world we would have seen this, we would have built around young "hopeful stars" and depressed value players, casted off dead weight, brought in a ton of picks to offset the moving of a few of them for younger players that were risk averse and allowed for the pivoting out of if they didn't exactly fit. None of this potential exists anymore, we cannot do a soft rebuild and maintain a competitive team and in the right moves actually improve on the foundation. It is now a rip down, fire-sale to mitigate and salvage long-term damage. We do that or we dig in only to prolong the suffering which in the end will cost any chances at retaining the players we should have built around.

Now it is likely there is nothing we can do to keep the players we want in the end and they will demand trades to get out of this mess, but we have a few years to try and hope for luck and put pieces that will be useful at that time around them before reality sets in.

Trade all of our vets and do a full rebuild while we don't own our first round picks? Hard pass.

[SO_MONEY]

This thread depresses me so much. I don't know if it is the state of the team or the lack of awareness that bothers me more. If people do not understand by this point the team is in shambles, there is no way to repair the damage to get back to where we were, or that we are stuck in a pitfall bound to last a decade...then I think paint chips were involved!

This was the year for this to work and should have been, but probably wasn't the impetus for the Gobert trade. Far more likely human elements took over things like desperation and instant gratification, not to mention outright incompetence.

Now, hand to God, we have people wanting to double down on this mistake, something which should have been an unforgivable sin as a fan. What the ever-loving hell? Can we not at least be introspective and internally honest at this point?

None of this really matters because in effect all opportunity has been stolen and complete indifference is warranted irrespective of ill-advised or fly by night schemes which would only randomly and probably marginally affect any outcome. I don't think this however changes the reality that the proper moves today are not dissimilar to the moves that should have been made prior to this unmitigated disaster and baffling as to why people refuse to see it.

1. We need to try to re-sign Naz and Nowell, we screwed this up and they should have never become UFAs. This is the same thing we SHOULD have done entering into the season. You hope they build value or become productive on qusi-value contracts.

2. We need to trade KAT, this SHOULD have been done years ago. Now there are likely diminishing returns, who cares at this point? It needs to be done this off-season.

3. We need to trade our useful vets that do not fit with ANT's timeline or are redundant, this SHOULD have been a player like Beasley, Beverly ect..., now it is Anderson, Prince ect...

4. We need to sell out of large contracts if we can, yes this includes DLo, but also Rudy. Any assets you can get regardless of the initial investment is the right move. DLo might get minor assets for the future and obviously could have been used in a bigger deal this past off-season. As for Rudy, same as with the time of the trade, he is a negative asset, he is a player you should have acquired picks for taking back with where this team was. Now, let's shorten that contract up if we can and not give away anything beyond a second or two, hopefully just in a swap of a bad contract that is a year shorter...rinse and repeat for a couple of years.

5. Build around ANT, McDaniels, Naz, Nowell and any other players in that general age range.

In a perfect world we would have seen this, we would have built around young "hopeful stars" and depressed value players, casted off dead weight, brought in a ton of picks to offset the moving of a few of them for younger players that were risk averse and allowed for the pivoting out of if they didn't exactly fit. None of this potential exists anymore, we cannot do a soft rebuild and maintain a competitive team and in the right moves actually improve on the foundation. It is now a rip down, fire-sale to mitigate and salvage long-term damage. We do that or we dig in only to prolong the suffering which in the end will cost any chances at retaining the players we should have built around.

Now it is likely there is nothing we can do to keep the players we want in the end and they will demand trades to get out of this mess, but we have a few years to try and hope for luck and put pieces that will be useful at that time around them before reality sets in.

Trade all of our vets and do a full rebuild while we don't own our first round picks? Hard pass.

Okay, then have next to nothing and be happy with it only to lose the few things you did have. I don't care. You do what I am saying or you are extending the problem by removing any chances beyond being at best a fringe playoff team eliminating the opportunity to set things right and hope for luck (we will need it).

The question is do you want to fix this in some limited capacity or dig in? As I said it likely all leads down the same road in eventuality. The difference is a rational forward thinking person doesn't assign any value to the picks we might lose, they are already gone and caring about it acts only to shape decision making processes to avoid the mental pain involved with it.

[Klomp]

I’m trying to put a list together of potential DLo trade partners and rough valuation. None feel like even 15% likely destinations.

MIN - sign him to a big one-year extension?
MIA - something around Lowry (plus?)
CHA - something around Gordon Hayward plus
WAS - Monte Morris, Delon Wright, ??
NYK - maybe Rose + Fournier + pick .. though needs a third team. NYK doesn’t need payroll relief.
LAC - lots of pieces possible
DAL - support for Luka?
PHX - maybe Chris Paul is he is half-cooked, pair with BFF Booker
TOR - part of VanVleet deal if he isn’t coming back?
Add
ORL
CHI
UTA

Anyone that should clearly be added? Removed?

Left-field idea: what about Detroit? They have some longterm money they might want to lose. Bogdanovic has chemistry with Rudy and we could probably use one more SF/PF. They may find interest in a Reid and/or Nowell evaluation.

[moss_is_1]

Okay, then have next to nothing and be happy with it only to lose the few things you did have. I don't care. You do what I am saying or you are extending the problem by removing any chances beyond being at best a fringe playoff team eliminating the opportunity to set things right and hope for luck (we will need it).

The question is do you want to fix this in some limited capacity or dig in? As I said it likely all leads down the same road in eventuality. The difference is a rational forward thinking person doesn't assign any value to the picks we might lose, they are already gone and caring about it acts only to shape decision making processes to avoid the mental pain involved with it.

Seems a bit dramatic to me. We haven't even played 50 games, nearly half of them missing our best player. We're worse than we expected, but we are still right in the hunt of the playoff race with really only 3 teams pulling away from the pack. I think it's salvageable to an extent. Getting better role players to fit around what we have, internal development, free agent signings. I'm not gonna go through another rebuild. It's going to take time. Why would we blow it all up after half a season, when we gave up 3 unprotected 1sts, a top 5 protected pick, and a swap until 2029?? Just build the jazz a dynasty? There's no point in that.

We don't have 1st round picks, we can still sign free agents, 2nd rounders, undrafted guys(Naz was developed undrafted, as well as Jmac). Connelly was praised for his scouting, especially picks later in the draft.

[MN7725]

This thread depresses me so much. I don't know if it is the state of the team or the lack of awareness that bothers me more. If people do not understand by this point the team is in shambles, there is no way to repair the damage to get back to where we were, or that we are stuck in a pitfall bound to last a decade...then I think paint chips were involved!

This was the year for this to work and should have been, but probably wasn't the impetus for the Gobert trade. Far more likely human elements took over things like desperation and instant gratification, not to mention outright incompetence.

Now, hand to God, we have people wanting to double down on this mistake, something which should have been an unforgivable sin as a fan. What the ever-loving hell? Can we not at least be introspective and internally honest at this point?

None of this really matters because in effect all opportunity has been stolen and complete indifference is warranted irrespective of ill-advised or fly by night schemes which would only randomly and probably marginally affect any outcome. I don't think this however changes the reality that the proper moves today are not dissimilar to the moves that should have been made prior to this unmitigated disaster and baffling as to why people refuse to see it.

1. We need to try to re-sign Naz and Nowell, we screwed this up and they should have never become UFAs. This is the same thing we SHOULD have done entering into the season. You hope they build value or become productive on qusi-value contracts.

2. We need to trade KAT, this SHOULD have been done years ago. Now there are likely diminishing returns, who cares at this point? It needs to be done this off-season.

3. We need to trade our useful vets that do not fit with ANT's timeline or are redundant, this SHOULD have been a player like Beasley, Beverly ect..., now it is Anderson, Prince ect...

4. We need to sell out of large contracts if we can, yes this includes DLo, but also Rudy. Any assets you can get regardless of the initial investment is the right move. DLo might get minor assets for the future and obviously could have been used in a bigger deal this past off-season. As for Rudy, same as with the time of the trade, he is a negative asset, he is a player you should have acquired picks for taking back with where this team was. Now, let's shorten that contract up if we can and not give away anything beyond a second or two, hopefully just in a swap of a bad contract that is a year shorter...rinse and repeat for a couple of years.

5. Build around ANT, McDaniels, Naz, Nowell and any other players in that general age range.

In a perfect world we would have seen this, we would have built around young "hopeful stars" and depressed value players, casted off dead weight, brought in a ton of picks to offset the moving of a few of them for younger players that were risk averse and allowed for the pivoting out of if they didn't exactly fit. None of this potential exists anymore, we cannot do a soft rebuild and maintain a competitive team and in the right moves actually improve on the foundation. It is now a rip down, fire-sale to mitigate and salvage long-term damage. We do that or we dig in only to prolong the suffering which in the end will cost any chances at retaining the players we should have built around.

Now it is likely there is nothing we can do to keep the players we want in the end and they will demand trades to get out of this mess, but we have a few years to try and hope for luck and put pieces that will be useful at that time around them before reality sets in.

As a Gobert trade hater, I don't particularly disagree with much in your post

But how about throwing out some trade proposals for Russell, Prince, Anderson as you suggest the Wolves should be doing so there is at least something to discuss?

Otherwise a post that generalizes what a team should do, should have done doesn't really offer much to other posters

We haven't seen much proposals for Prince or Anderson, its been pretty much all Dlo, Nowell, Reid, so that would actually be interesting

[shrink]

…
He’s slow and a very poor defender. Here, he’s a bigger Bryn Forbes, or a smarter Matt Ryan. I wish he was the Mike Miller- archetype, but he isn’t. A MIN deal is just to clear his negative salary off the Spurs books and turn it into additional cap space for your GM to sell like Presti, not because we want McDermott.

I didn’t notice this the first time I replied. I don’t think a cap space argument would fly with the Spurs, for trading McD. They are currently below the salary floor by over $14 M. They’re going to have to write bonus checks to the players, to get up to the salary minimum, as it stands. This version of the Spurs may be bad, but at least it’s cheap. Lol

I hope not. If that happens, that’s a failure on your GM’s ability to find bad contracts to absorb for profit.

Cap space is an asset, and not using it .. especially giving players a bonus to meet the salary floor .. is malfeasance.

Ten teams are still over the lux, and if the Spurs agree to absorb a contract, even an expiring, it can save that team 2-3 times as much money, and they should be very motivated to give the Spurs things they can use, like 2nd rounders, maybe a late 1st, or prospects.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/

[shrink]

The Clippers aren’t the only Western Conference playoff contender eyeing Mike Conley. According to Shams Charania of The Athletic, the Timberwolves have also expressed interest in the Jazz point guard.

As Charania outlines, the Wolves will have to make a decision in the coming months on D’Angelo Russell, who is on an expiring $31.4MM contract and appears unlikely to sign an extension with Minnesota before reaching free agency in July. If Russell leaves as a free agent this summer, the Wolves would lose his salary slot, which could negatively impact their ability to acquire another impact player moving forward.

According to Charania, Minnesota has been exploring trade scenarios involving Russell and has been prioritizing finding another point guard in such a deal.

Danny Ainge is like the Wolves’ horrible ex-girlfriend. You just know he called up MIN one lonely night and said,

“Hey honey, I know I’ve treated you bad in the past, but I was just thinking about you and .. do you want to get together?”

[SO_MONEY]

Okay, then have next to nothing and be happy with it only to lose the few things you did have. I don't care. You do what I am saying or you are extending the problem by removing any chances beyond being at best a fringe playoff team eliminating the opportunity to set things right and hope for luck (we will need it).

The question is do you want to fix this in some limited capacity or dig in? As I said it likely all leads down the same road in eventuality. The difference is a rational forward thinking person doesn't assign any value to the picks we might lose, they are already gone and caring about it acts only to shape decision making processes to avoid the mental pain involved with it.

Seems a bit dramatic to me. We haven't even played 50 games, nearly half of them missing our best player. We're worse than we expected, but we are still right in the hunt of the playoff race with really only 3 teams pulling away from the pack. I think it's salvageable to an extent. Getting better role players to fit around what we have, internal development, free agent signings. I'm not gonna go through another rebuild. It's going to take time. Why would we blow it all up after half a season, when we gave up 3 unprotected 1sts, a top 5 protected pick, and a swap until 2029?? Just build the jazz a dynasty? There's no point in that.

We don't have 1st round picks, we can still sign free agents, 2nd rounders, undrafted guys(Naz was developed undrafted, as well as Jmac). Connelly was praised for his scouting, especially picks later in the draft.

I am not going to go through 10 years or so where we should have rebuilt only to just enter one at that time. There is no point in that.

This team is screwed and whether you understand it or not, you are basically admitting it.

Moving deck chairs will solve nothing, the upside for this team just isn't there and you seem okay with hoping we hit on 2nds or UDFAs while jettisoning the ones we already hit on could keep on reasonable contracts maybe to only trade later if nothing else. Or to think a MLE or BAE will make a difference with those losses. I am sorry it won't. We are backed into a corner.

Also the favor we did the Jazz should have no baring on our decisions, what does it matter?

[Danimals]

This thread depresses me so much. I don't know if it is the state of the team or the lack of awareness that bothers me more. If people do not understand by this point the team is in shambles, there is no way to repair the damage to get back to where we were, or that we are stuck in a pitfall bound to last a decade...then I think paint chips were involved!

This was the year for this to work and should have been, but probably wasn't the impetus for the Gobert trade. Far more likely human elements took over things like desperation and instant gratification, not to mention outright incompetence.

Now, hand to God, we have people wanting to double down on this mistake, something which should have been an unforgivable sin as a fan. What the ever-loving hell? Can we not at least be introspective and internally honest at this point?

None of this really matters because in effect all opportunity has been stolen and complete indifference is warranted irrespective of ill-advised or fly by night schemes which would only randomly and probably marginally affect any outcome. I don't think this however changes the reality that the proper moves today are not dissimilar to the moves that should have been made prior to this unmitigated disaster and baffling as to why people refuse to see it.

1. We need to try to re-sign Naz and Nowell, we screwed this up and they should have never become UFAs. This is the same thing we SHOULD have done entering into the season. You hope they build value or become productive on qusi-value contracts.

2. We need to trade KAT, this SHOULD have been done years ago. Now there are likely diminishing returns, who cares at this point? It needs to be done this off-season.

3. We need to trade our useful vets that do not fit with ANT's timeline or are redundant, this SHOULD have been a player like Beasley, Beverly ect..., now it is Anderson, Prince ect...

4. We need to sell out of large contracts if we can, yes this includes DLo, but also Rudy. Any assets you can get regardless of the initial investment is the right move. DLo might get minor assets for the future and obviously could have been used in a bigger deal this past off-season. As for Rudy, same as with the time of the trade, he is a negative asset, he is a player you should have acquired picks for taking back with where this team was. Now, let's shorten that contract up if we can and not give away anything beyond a second or two, hopefully just in a swap of a bad contract that is a year shorter...rinse and repeat for a couple of years.

5. Build around ANT, McDaniels, Naz, Nowell and any other players in that general age range.

In a perfect world we would have seen this, we would have built around young "hopeful stars" and depressed value players, casted off dead weight, brought in a ton of picks to offset the moving of a few of them for younger players that were risk averse and allowed for the pivoting out of if they didn't exactly fit. None of this potential exists anymore, we cannot do a soft rebuild and maintain a competitive team and in the right moves actually improve on the foundation. It is now a rip down, fire-sale to mitigate and salvage long-term damage. We do that or we dig in only to prolong the suffering which in the end will cost any chances at retaining the players we should have built around.

Now it is likely there is nothing we can do to keep the players we want in the end and they will demand trades to get out of this mess, but we have a few years to try and hope for luck and put pieces that will be useful at that time around them before reality sets in.

Sorry man, but this is the worst take I’ve seen in a long time. Just no. I’m not even commenting on the current team, but your proposed future would be horrible.

[shrink]

Seems a bit dramatic to me. We haven't even played 50 games, nearly half of them missing our best player. We're worse than we expected, but we are still right in the hunt of the playoff race with really only 3 teams pulling away from the pack. I think it's salvageable to an extent. Getting better role players to fit around what we have, internal development, free agent signings. I'm not gonna go through another rebuild. It's going to take time. Why would we blow it all up after half a season, when we gave up 3 unprotected 1sts, a top 5 protected pick, and a swap until 2029?? Just build the jazz a dynasty? There's no point in that.

I agree. Did something happen that suddenly make the addition of Gobert a failure? I see uninformed fans from other teams on the trade board preface KAT trades with, “the Gobert and KAT pairing hasn’t worked, so trade us KAT cheap!” MIN fans should be better than this. How do we know it isn’t going to work? Towns was the only guy that could get Rudy the ball when he first got here, and with the preseason illness and injury, I think the worst you can say is, “incomplete.” Way too soon to decide the pairing is a failure, and this trade was a longterm bet.

Second, MIN battles with one giant handicap. We’re Minnesota. All-NBA free agents aren’t beating down our door to come here, and if they got traded here, many would leave at the first opportunity. However, Towns wants to be here. Rudy does too. Ant and Jaden can likely be locked up for 6 seasons. It takes star talent to win in the NBA - if you send Towns or Rudy out, who’s coming here? Do we need to wait years and hope we get lucky in a draft and then give more time for him to develop?

Third, the Gobert trade was made raise our ceiling to have a chance at championships. Last year’s team was fun, but if fifth starters with major limitations like Beasley, PatBev, and Vanderbilt are getting major minutes, you don’t have the star power to win playoff series. And this team may not have every other pick in the future, but it has plenty of young upside with Edwards and McDaniels. I heard recently that Josh Minott has been stashed this season, to act like next year’s 1st round prospect.

I’m not saying the Gobert trade will work. But I definitely refuse to say today that it’s a failure and the Wolves are doomed for the next five years. It is too soon to tell. Heck, with KAT’s injury it will probably be too soon to tell, even after the season is over. But the idea of standing pat and spinning our wheels in the middle, with no cap space and picks in the teens, is far less of a chance to be a successful organization.

[shrink]

Russell + Nowell + $4 mil cash for Eric Gordon + Jae’Sean Tate + $6.7 mil TPE

Gordon is 34. His 23-24 season is $20 mil, but unguaranteed. Jae-Sean is 27, owed $6.5 mil next season with a $7.5 team option after that. It gives the Rockets a look at a couple younger players, who they can afford to re-sign. I can’t imagine Gordon is a joy in the Rockets clubhouse right now.

Who says no? I don’t watch the Rockets. Is Tate worth anything?

[shrink]

Left-field idea: what about Detroit? They have some longterm money they might want to lose. Bogdanovic has chemistry with Rudy and we could probably use one more SF/PF. They may find interest in a Reid and/or Nowell evaluation.

One good thing about trading for vets from tanking teams is that they would probably be happy to come to Minnesota. Although I understand having some vets around helps youth develop in a structure. Added plus is that DLo seems to like mentoring young players.

Bojan Bogdanović (33) is paid $20 next year and $19 the year after, but the good news for MIN is that only $2 mil is guaranteed. How about Alec Burks (31) who’s on a $10.5 team option next season?

Bojan Bogdanović + Alec Burks for D’Angelo Russell + Jaylen Nowell + $4 mil cash.

[SO_MONEY]

Seems a bit dramatic to me. We haven't even played 50 games, nearly half of them missing our best player. We're worse than we expected, but we are still right in the hunt of the playoff race with really only 3 teams pulling away from the pack. I think it's salvageable to an extent. Getting better role players to fit around what we have, internal development, free agent signings. I'm not gonna go through another rebuild. It's going to take time. Why would we blow it all up after half a season, when we gave up 3 unprotected 1sts, a top 5 protected pick, and a swap until 2029?? Just build the jazz a dynasty? There's no point in that.

I agree. Did something happen that suddenly make the addition of Gobert a failure? I see uninformed fans from other teams on the trade board preface KAT trades with, “the Gobert and KAT pairing hasn’t worked, so trade us KAT cheap!” MIN fans should be better than this. How do we know it isn’t going to work? Towns was the only guy that could get Rudy the ball when he first got here, and with the preseason illness and injury, I think the worst you can say is, “incomplete.” Way too soon to decide the pairing is a failure, and this trade was a longterm bet.

Second, MIN battles with one giant handicap. We’re Minnesota. All-NBA free agents aren’t beating down our door to come here, and if they got traded here, many would leave at the first opportunity. However, Towns wants to be here. Rudy does too. Ant and Jaden can likely be locked up for 6 seasons. It takes star talent to win in the NBA - if you send Towns or Rudy out, who’s coming here? Do we need to wait years and hope we get lucky in a draft and then give more time for him to develop?

Third, the Gobert trade was made raise our ceiling to have a chance at championships. Last year’s team was fun, but if fifth starters with major limitations like Beasley, PatBev, and Vanderbilt are getting major minutes, you don’t have the star power to win playoff series. And this team may not have every other pick in the future, but it has plenty of young upside with Edwards and McDaniels. I heard recently that Josh Minott has been stashed this season, to act like next year’s 1st round prospect.

I’m not saying the Gobert trade will work. But I definitely refuse to say today that it’s a failure and the Wolves are doomed for the next five years. It is too soon to tell. Heck, with KAT’s injury it will probably be too soon to tell, even after the season is over. But the idea of standing pat and spinning our wheels in the middle, with no cap space and picks in the teens, is far less of a chance to be a successful organization.

This team was ruined, you can accept it or ignore it, but offering cognitive dissidence in my eyes is not productive. Addressing none of the concerns honestly tells me people don't want to. And acting like this team is deserving of an incomplete grade is nonsensical. We have seen what they are, the fit and scheme do not work...that was the gamble and was not intended to be a long-term one. To keep allowing time and extending excuses just screams denial. If this team had a chance to be anything it would have flashed instead it is very clearly a disjointed mess which may play better without two of our "stars". At this point with all else being lost in cost, another gamble of finding a collection of winning pieces and player development is the best shot out of this rather than riding this overpaid collection of misfit toys that will struggle to avoid a play-in and that is overly optimistic at this point. We should be trying to position ourselves and not sinking investment into a lost cause. The sooner we see this the better the long-term prospects.

[JeffReal]

…

I didn’t notice this the first time I replied. I don’t think a cap space argument would fly with the Spurs, for trading McD. They are currently below the salary floor by over $14 M. They’re going to have to write bonus checks to the players, to get up to the salary minimum, as it stands. This version of the Spurs may be bad, but at least it’s cheap. Lol

I hope not. If that happens, that’s a failure on your GM’s ability to find bad contracts to absorb for profit.

Cap space is an asset, and not using it .. especially giving players a bonus to meet the salary floor .. is malfeasance.

Ten teams are still over the lux, and if the Spurs agree to absorb a contract, even an expiring, it can save that team 2-3 times as much money, and they should be very motivated to give the Spurs things they can use, like 2nd rounders, maybe a late 1st, or prospects.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/

I agree, and there’s a number of Spurs fans who have been critical of the Spurs front office for not using that cap space. And it’s odd, since the Spurs FO has been doing some significant deals recently. Derrick White to Boston, Dejounte Murray to the Hawks, and more. So we can be sure they know how to talk to people on the phone. But still, all that cap space is sitting there, and I could not tell you why. Maybe something will happen at the deadline.

[shrink]

This team was ruined, you can accept it or ignore it, but offering cognitive dissidence in my eyes is not productive.

Why do you think this is cognitive dissonance?

Also, this whole, “the Wolves are doomed” bit should be moved to the Gobert trade thread, or its own thread, not in the middle of our trade thread.