Trade Ideas

[jasonxxx102]

I've been encouraged by Okoro offensively these last 10-15 games. He just needs some confidence and to keep it up.

I would rather just ride it out and see what you can do with the guys you have. You'll have the opportunity to sign someone in free agency. Not sure what the cap situation looks like but if you really like Malik Beasley you can probably sign him next year.

[ijspeelman]

I don't think you could play Collins alongside Mobley/Allen

Defense or offense?

Defense its like with Lauri (probably better imo), and offense it'll just depend on if this year is a fluke or not. For the three years before this one, he was shooting 38.8% on 3s on 3.9 3PA/36 (which is low-ish volume, but higher than someone like Okoro).

Offense & defense.

Collins can't create his own shot and it's looking like that 40% from 3 season was a fluke and if the norm is closer to 35%? Not interested in him.

Defense not so much comparing it to Lauri but the opportunity cost of another wing or even Okoro. You know I love Okoro and probably overrate him but to me he's an elite on-ball defender. You can put him on the opponents best player and he's going to make them work. A guy like John Collins will kind of be lost when your back court is small and not defensive minded. Unless you put him down low with Allen and let Mobley kind of roam around.

We don't really need Collins to create his own shot (I also think he's a better shot creator than someone like Okoro/Wade as a direct comparison). He's in the same mold of player as someone like AD or Amare Stoudemire where he can do a lot of things off the ball (not saying he's as skilled as either of those guys). Having a third lob threat for Mitchell and Garland sounds lovely and I really rate Collin's defense. He's gotten much better from his younger days.

His problem with the Hawks is with how little he is involved with the offense so I have no clue if a change of scenery would get him more opportunities. We do play a more "team friendly" style as compared to the Hawks, but its not like we are going to run Collins PNR ball handler plays for him or a lot of post-ups. His stuff will still be coming from his off-ball play.

[JonFromVA]

Defense or offense?

Defense its like with Lauri (probably better imo), and offense it'll just depend on if this year is a fluke or not. For the three years before this one, he was shooting 38.8% on 3s on 3.9 3PA/36 (which is low-ish volume, but higher than someone like Okoro).

Offense & defense.

Collins can't create his own shot and it's looking like that 40% from 3 season was a fluke and if the norm is closer to 35%? Not interested in him.

Defense not so much comparing it to Lauri but the opportunity cost of another wing or even Okoro. You know I love Okoro and probably overrate him but to me he's an elite on-ball defender. You can put him on the opponents best player and he's going to make them work. A guy like John Collins will kind of be lost when your back court is small and not defensive minded. Unless you put him down low with Allen and let Mobley kind of roam around.

We don't really need Collins to create his own shot (I also think he's a better shot creator than someone like Okoro/Wade as a direct comparison). He's in the same mold of player as someone like AD or Amare Stoudemire where he can do a lot of things off the ball (not saying he's as skilled as either of those guys). Having a third lob threat for Mitchell and Garland sounds lovely and I really rate Collin's defense. He's gotten much better from his younger days.

His problem with the Hawks is with how little he is involved with the offense so I have no clue if a change of scenery would get him more opportunities. We do play a more "team friendly" style as compared to the Hawks, but its not like we are going to run Collins PNR ball handler plays for him or a lot of post-ups. His stuff will still be coming from his off-ball play.

This tangent is predicated on a straight up trade, if Utah is sending picks to Atlanta to pull this off and the Cavs are basically just throwing in LeVert's expiring for a non-expiring - then we're not getting Collins. And fwiw, that's exactly the sort of deal (if not the specific deal) Koby should be looking for. We upgrade an asset and take on more long-term $ in exchange for helping 2 other teams get a bigger trade done.

We need a team more desperate than us ...

[JonFromVA]

Offense & defense.

Collins can't create his own shot and it's looking like that 40% from 3 season was a fluke and if the norm is closer to 35%? Not interested in him.

Defense not so much comparing it to Lauri but the opportunity cost of another wing or even Okoro. You know I love Okoro and probably overrate him but to me he's an elite on-ball defender. You can put him on the opponents best player and he's going to make them work. A guy like John Collins will kind of be lost when your back court is small and not defensive minded. Unless you put him down low with Allen and let Mobley kind of roam around.

We don't really need Collins to create his own shot (I also think he's a better shot creator than someone like Okoro/Wade as a direct comparison). He's in the same mold of player as someone like AD or Amare Stoudemire where he can do a lot of things off the ball (not saying he's as skilled as either of those guys). Having a third lob threat for Mitchell and Garland sounds lovely and I really rate Collin's defense. He's gotten much better from his younger days.

His problem with the Hawks is with how little he is involved with the offense so I have no clue if a change of scenery would get him more opportunities. We do play a more "team friendly" style as compared to the Hawks, but its not like we are going to run Collins PNR ball handler plays for him or a lot of post-ups. His stuff will still be coming from his off-ball play.

This tangent is predicated on a straight up trade, if Utah is sending picks to Atlanta to pull this off and the Cavs are basically just throwing in LeVert's expiring for a non-expiring - then we're not getting Collins. And fwiw, that's exactly the sort of deal (if not the specific deal) Koby should be looking for. We upgrade an asset and take on more long-term $ in exchange for helping 2 other teams get a bigger trade done.

We need a team more desperate than us ...

Should have figured this, but with Ainge involved ... he's the one asking for extra picks to take Collins off the Hawks hands.

[JujitsuFlip]

We don't really need Collins to create his own shot (I also think he's a better shot creator than someone like Okoro/Wade as a direct comparison). He's in the same mold of player as someone like AD or Amare Stoudemire where he can do a lot of things off the ball (not saying he's as skilled as either of those guys). Having a third lob threat for Mitchell and Garland sounds lovely and I really rate Collin's defense. He's gotten much better from his younger days.

His problem with the Hawks is with how little he is involved with the offense so I have no clue if a change of scenery would get him more opportunities. We do play a more "team friendly" style as compared to the Hawks, but its not like we are going to run Collins PNR ball handler plays for him or a lot of post-ups. His stuff will still be coming from his off-ball play.

This tangent is predicated on a straight up trade, if Utah is sending picks to Atlanta to pull this off and the Cavs are basically just throwing in LeVert's expiring for a non-expiring - then we're not getting Collins. And fwiw, that's exactly the sort of deal (if not the specific deal) Koby should be looking for. We upgrade an asset and take on more long-term $ in exchange for helping 2 other teams get a bigger trade done.

We need a team more desperate than us ...

Should have figured this, but with Ainge involved ... he's the one asking for extra picks to take Collins off the Hawks hands.

Yupppp, I want nothing to do with another Ainge trade, I'm good for a lifetime lol

[JujitsuFlip]

John Collins has 3.5 more years on his 5 year deal, count me all the way out on him coming here. He's not a guy thw Cavs should pay the tax for.

[JonFromVA]

John Collins has 3.5 more years on his 5 year deal, count me all the way out on him coming here. He's not a guy thw Cavs should pay the tax for.

Ainge has no reason to help us long-term, but in the short-term? I doubt he cares given our picks don't start conveying for a while.

Collins last year is a player's option, so we're only on the hook for that if he stinks.

Like Lauri - he has nice measurements for a SF, but mediocre for a PF, and no getting around his 3pt shooting has disappeared. If he didn't immediately find it again, it would be a disaster.

But if he did? And could play that Lauri role?

Perhaps we could justify his salary in terms of pushing the LeVert and Love contracts & role forward a bit more while Mobley's pay day is still off in the future.

otoh, if the Hawks are getting desperate, I wonder at what point they'd be willing to shop DeAndre Hunter? He's getting paid quite a bit for not a whole lot of performance too and probably an even more extensive injury history than Collins.

[jbk1234]

John Collins has 3.5 more years on his 5 year deal, count me all the way out on him coming here. He's not a guy thw Cavs should pay the tax for.

Same.

[mcfly1204]

I am surprised that we are not hearing Hayward's name more. He would be a nice fit on this roster, and playing next to Garland and Mitchell should help to reduce his load significantly. With Charlotte playing as poorly as they are, why are we not hearing any rumors?

[JonFromVA]

I am surprised that we are not hearing Hayward's name more. He would be a nice fit on this roster, and playing next to Garland and Mitchell should help to reduce his load significantly. With Charlotte playing as poorly as they are, why are we not hearing any rumors?

Perhaps because he's old, washed, and injured all the time so not under consideration -or- the Cavs don't leak the actual deals they're working on.

[jbk1234]

I am surprised that we are not hearing Hayward's name more. He would be a nice fit on this roster, and playing next to Garland and Mitchell should help to reduce his load significantly. With Charlotte playing as poorly as they are, why are we not hearing any rumors?

He's been playing poorly and the concern is not so much it's a slump, as the injuries have taken a permanent toll.

[mcfly1204]

I just can't get onboard with acquiring a smaller SG who doesn't defend, especially in a LeVert swap.

[afarmenian]

None of these rumor deals makes sense i would be surprised if they make anything more than a minor move.

Everyone keeps talking wings but we have no backup big man that can defend. After Mobley and Allen it's nothing but 6 8 Love and Bizarro brook Lopez need another true big for when one of the towers can't play

[jbk1234]

I just can't get onboard with acquiring a smaller SG who doesn't defend, especially in a LeVert swap.

Then you better hope the Mavs are motivated enough to get off THJ's contract to include DFS, which to be clear, I don't see happening.

[mcfly1204]

I just can't get onboard with acquiring a smaller SG who doesn't defend, especially in a LeVert swap.

Then you better hope the Mavs are motivated enough to get off THJ's contract to include DFS, which to be clear, I don't see happening.

My guess is that we end up making a deal with the Pistons. Bogdanovic, Burks, or Bey.

[jbk1234]

I just can't get onboard with acquiring a smaller SG who doesn't defend, especially in a LeVert swap.

Then you better hope the Mavs are motivated enough to get off THJ's contract to include DFS, which to be clear, I don't see happening.

My guess is that we end up making a deal with the Pistons. Bogdanovic, Burks, or Bey.

None of those guys can defend the SF position. Burks is below average and Bogs/Bey are just bad. The Pistons have been playing Bey as a small ball PF off the bench for awhile now. If I could get Burks for a second, I'd do it, but Weaver is nuts. Posturing is one thing, but the reporting of what he's asking for is just absurd.

[KuruptedCav]

I’d prefer Collins to Beasley. At least he fills a role that the Cavs have no long-term solution for…

He was paid based on 2019/20 and growth trajectory. We’re three years into that not occurring. I don’t think he’s been the same player since the HGH suspension. And even without that, he’s never played 82 games.

So, he’s worth $15 mil/yr; if Ainge wants to be paid to take him, I’d cut Utah out of that deal.

I’m dubious about LeVert being sent out in a deal for him. I think we’re hearing that because Rubio cuts into his role significantly. Would rather orchestrate around Love here.

Something like Love for Collins, Holiday and a pick or swap+2nds might be palatable.


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[jbk1234]

I’d prefer Collins to Beasley. At least he fills a role that the Cavs have no long-term solution for…

He was paid based on 2019/20 and growth trajectory. We’re three years into that not occurring. I don’t think he’s been the same player since the HGH suspension. And even without that, he’s never played 82 games.

So, he’s worth $15 mil/yr; if Ainge wants to be paid to take him, I’d cut Utah out of that deal.

I’m dubious about LeVert being sent out in a deal for him. I think we’re hearing that because Rubio cuts into his role significantly. Would rather orchestrate around Love here.

Something like Love for Collins, Holiday and a pick or swap+2nds might be palatable.


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I just don't know how you justify trading what little you have in terms of expendable trade assets for a third big, especially one whose outside shooting is sketchy. We have needs ahead of that. I like Reid out of Minny as a much cheaper target to fill that role.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs should not be taking on 3.5 more years of any players contract. If Collins was a 3&D wing, maybe but in that scenario the Cavs probably wouldn't have the assets to acquire him.

I think if there isn't a homerun deal at the deadline, just stay put. If Cavs lockup a top 6 seed near the end of the season, they can sign a vet to their 15th spot.

Otherwise, I'd rather not make another trade like last deadline, just made a move for the sake of making a move, regardless of fit.

[KuruptedCav]

I’d prefer Collins to Beasley. At least he fills a role that the Cavs have no long-term solution for…

He was paid based on 2019/20 and growth trajectory. We’re three years into that not occurring. I don’t think he’s been the same player since the HGH suspension. And even without that, he’s never played 82 games.

So, he’s worth $15 mil/yr; if Ainge wants to be paid to take him, I’d cut Utah out of that deal.

I’m dubious about LeVert being sent out in a deal for him. I think we’re hearing that because Rubio cuts into his role significantly. Would rather orchestrate around Love here.

Something like Love for Collins, Holiday and a pick or swap+2nds might be palatable.


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I just don't know how you justify trading what little you have in terms of expendable trade assets for a third big, especially one whose outside shooting is sketchy. We have needs ahead of that. I like Reid out of Minny as a much cheaper target to fill that role.

I like Naz and think he’s a perfect BAE target.

I also think that if you can get lottery protected swap rights in 2024 and/or 2026 along with 1-2 2nd round picks FROM Atlanta; that Collins is worth the financial investment. I would not trade assets for him, and do not consider Kevin Love as an asset beyond the trade deadline.

Takes some maneuvering in the off-season to duck the tax for non-taxpayer MLE purposes (but with Okoro and Osman expiring, shouldn’t be difficult. I also don’t know that the Cavs should be trying to duck the tax next year.


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