Deni Avdija

[dckingsfan]

Really like the strides Deni has made. It used to be that he struggled to finish at the rim but he's gotten much better in that area. Now when Deni attacks the basket I fully expect his shot to go in. His 3 ball certainly needs to improve and with time and hard work I can see that happening.

Of course, Deni's defense continues to be near elite and his playmaking skills are a real strength and asset. He does probably need to be given more opportunity as a playmaker...as others here have consistently argued.

Where I'd like to see improvement from Deni is in the midrange game. That shot is going to be there at times and you need to be able to make it. Right now, Deni looks very uncomfortable shooting anything other than threes or layups.

Regarding the midrange comment, I've seen that too. Looks like he's spooked when he seems them. He's only taken a handful of them this season, but none of them have been pretty to look at.

If you are "at least" a two dimensional scorer vs. one dimensional it helps. Also, I consider him a good but not elite playmaker or ball handler... it would really help to become elite in one of those areas as well. Until then, he isn't a + on the offensive side.

[nate33]

Thoughts on starting Deni at PF? Suggestion from Locked On Wizards...

I don't think PF really exists as a position anymore. It's just "forward". I suppose you can call him a power forward if he starts alongside Kispert, Beal and a PG. But if he is starting alongside Kuzma or Rui, then he is just a forward.

Ultimately, as long as Kuzma is on the roster, it makes a fair bit of sense to bring Avdija off the bench. Avdija's skillset as a secondary ball handler and rebounder is pretty duplicative to Kuzma, so I think he fits in better when he is alongside either Kispert or Hachimura who can spread the floor.

If Kuzma is traded, then sure, start Avdija at "power forward".

[payitforward]

Offensively, Deni hasn't improved enough from last year for my taste. He needs a genuine jump, otherwise it'll start to look like he's hit his NBA ceiling.

Don't get me wrong -- he's already pretty good overall. But, his shooting percentages need to go up, & he needs to get to the line a bit more. &, this year, he's been turning the ball over too much.

Moreover, he's actually shooting the ball less this year than he did last year.

[dckingsfan]

Offensively, Deni hasn't improved enough from last year for my taste. He needs a genuine jump, otherwise it'll start to look like he's hit his NBA ceiling.

Don't get me wrong -- he's already pretty good overall. But, his shooting percentages need to go up, & he needs to get to the line a bit more. &, this year, he's been turning the ball over too much.

Moreover, he's actually shooting the ball less this year than he did last year.

Opinion. Not only hasn't he made a jump offensively this year - I think he has regressed to his rookie season (overall). I think he was (much) better last year than this year. I don't think he is as locked in on D either.

As to if he has hit his NBA ceiling. I am a fan (fanatic if you will), so I think there can be a lot of improvement both offensively and defensively.

He could drastically improve (IMO) by improving in any of the following areas; hitting the 3 at a (much) better clip; having a midrange game; being able to go left and right on drives; and or being more aggressive.

Since he can knock off one each year, there is a chance to really improve year over year.

The pessimist in me says that won't happen if he spends his summers in Israel playing with the national team. He needs skill development in the off-season not more PT.

[DCZards]

Deni did skill development with Drew Hanlen last offseason. Not sure how much or where it helped.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[doclinkin]

Deni did skill development with Drew Hanlen last offseason. Not sure how much or where it helped.

It helped in Eurobasket.

[Kanyewest]

I think I saw Deni working out with someone pre-game with the Suns that looked like Drew Hanlen- but it could have been someone else.

[Dolevi]

I don't think it's important with who or how he worked on his game. Him being a nice kid and good boy, 'yes man'. That won't help him. He weak and has no character. He doesn't have that strong mentally foundation. He'll have the same problem in every other NBA team. This is the league and he needs to show he's a player and can contribute offensivly. And by now he struggles to impact the game. Let him practice 1000 summers more with the greatest NBA coaches, it won't help in my opinion. His problem more than physical is mental and social right now I think. Sure he can be a defensive player and glue guy, but that will be his ceilling.

[Dolevi]

Deni did skill development with Drew Hanlen last offseason. Not sure how much or where it helped.

It helped in Eurobasket.

This is a different level of basketball, different talent. different game. Also his role on the NT is different than his role here. He came back to the real league in the NBA and got slapped hard. That's the truth.

[Jimmy Recard]

It’s getting harder and harder to defend Deni. I’ve watched the last couple games OKC have played and hate to say it but Giddey is everything we hoped Deni would be, and Giddey is two years younger.

I like the fact the he is now taking advantage of his size and strength and bullying smaller guards when he gets a match up he likes. Deni meanwhile, dude barely looks at the rim, never uses his size against smaller/weaker guys, despite teams put their weakest defender on him, and generally just lacks confidence that you see from guys in their rookie year, not in their third year. He’s basically what Ben Simmons is now for the Nets, but with worse handles and playmaking,

[Frichuela]

It’s getting harder and harder to defend Deni. I’ve watched the last couple games OKC have played and hate to say it but Giddey is everything we hoped Deni would be, and Giddey is two years younger.

I like the fact the he is now taking advantage of his size and strength and bullying smaller guards when he gets a match up he likes. Deni meanwhile, dude barely looks at the rim, never uses his size against smaller/weaker guys, despite teams put their weakest defender on him, and generally just lacks confidence that you see from guys in their rookie year, not in their third year. He’s basically what Ben Simmons is now for the Nets, but with worse handles and playmaking,

I think this is key. Last summer I watched how Deni played at euro basket and it was night and day. There was even a game when he went toe to toe with Markinnen. He was clutch and even hit step back threes. This Deni is a shadow of his national team version…

[doclinkin]

Deni did skill development with Drew Hanlen last offseason. Not sure how much or where it helped.

It helped in Eurobasket.

This is a different level of basketball, different talent. different game. Also his role on the NT is different than his role here. He came back to the real league in the NBA and got slapped hard. That's the truth.

YEP!

Which is why I was puzzled at Deni fans suggesting he should lead the team as a de facto PG (either as a starter or on the 2nd unit) when he doesn't yet have the handle or scoring threat for this to be a viable option. Even if you think this is his best role, he is not quite good enough to play that role at a high level. No matter what team he plays for.

It was encouraging to see his Eurobasket play, and not surprising at all when early in the season he tried some of those same moves and got snuffed. Fans had been loudly arguing that Euro play was exactly as athletic as the NBA, tougher even, and that Deni had been able to handle it despite being the focus of the NT's offense. I think I recall seeing it when we played Indiana early in the season when Turner returned, after we had played the first few games primarily against back-ups. Deni got stymied twice by Myles on aggressive drives to the iron, then played tentative the rest of the game.

I still maintain that Deni is quietly improving. I'm most heartened by his FT shooting. What had been a liability in his game, shooting 60-something %, has risen to close to 80% this year. His assist rate is trending up (though so are his turnovers). HIs defensive rebounding is solid. He still has no game in the 3'-10' range if he can't get a dunk, but he does hit a mid-range jumper outside that range from time to time. When a player's FT% improves, commonly their 3FG% lags a bit but does eventually catch up.

I like that Deni worked with Beal's guy. I liked that he found confidence in Eurobasket play. I also appreciate that the Israeli team did not advance because Deni needs to get obsessive about shooting from outside, get 1000 made 3's a day, a la Kobe or Gilbert Arenas. Adding arc and range and backspin will force teams to guard him, then a shot fake can open up even more passing angles for him to play the role his fans envision.

Mostly though I appreciate the work he is putting in with Gortat on interior moves. Footwork and a go-to move in the paint will help him as much or more than learning to be more shifty as a face-up wing. Deni can't back down smaller wings if he doesn't know what to do on the interior. Currently he has nothing on the interior other than to dunk when he has enough running room to get up to speed. He needs a baby hook or something he can turn to when he does get the ball in the crowded paint. Again, if he can figure out how to do anything when backing a smaller player into the interior, passing lanes will open up when teams decide they need to double him down low.

Deni will put in the work though. I am not unhappy with his progress. To me if he doesn't totally breakout before the Wizards can re-ink him, that just means we will have great value on his 2nd contract when he grows into his game and develops confidence. Deni is still the youngest player on the team who is getting minutes. (Discounting any players who have been on the G-League squad for most of the year, and only getting garbage time with the bigs). If still he takes a minute to grow into his game, I'm alright with it.

[nate33]

Good point about the free throws Doc. Every time I look the 3P%, I get discouraged. But in reality the improving FT% is probably a better indication of his ultimate shooting upside.

I gotta say, he really has the yips right now. His 3PAs aren't even close.

[Wizraeli]

Which is why I was puzzled at Deni fans suggesting he should lead the team as a de facto PG (either as a starter or on the 2nd unit)

Again you put words in "Deni fans" mouths, asking him to get MORE minutes as a playmaker is not the same as asking to give him the leading PG position, even with the 2nd unit, I would be very happy if that happened, but nobody asked for it, and the suggestion was more minutes compared to the zero he got in the previous 2+ years, not compared to now.

Fans had been loudly arguing that Euro play was exactly as athletic as the NBA, tougher even, and that Deni had been able to handle it despite being the focus of the NT's offense.

I don't remember anyone claiming Euro play in general is more or exactly as athletic...but the defense in the NBA, especially in recent years is much softer than Europe even when just comparing the rules, no defensive 3 seconds, hand-checking allowed, less spacing of shorter 3 pt line, how much the refs allow contact and the bigger motivation with smaller amount of games where every game counts against the NBA's 82 games regular season, don't take my word, there are enough quotes of players like Doncic saying the same thing, it's also a fact Deni was the focus of the opponents defense, unlike when he's playing with the Wizards.

Even if you think this is his best role, he is not quite good enough to play that role at a high level

And how will he improve without playing in that role? there's a limit to how much a player can improve only by training in practices, especially during the middle of the season, if the Wizards wants him to improve in a certain role they need to let him play in that role, even if it's the famous 3&D, they need to play him in that role with organized plays, but as I've said in the past, it doesn't look like the Coaching staff knows what they want to do with Deni on offense, but it's not surprising since it doesn't look like they know what they want from this team in general and only try to survive from game to game without any long term plan.


------------------------------------


To make it clear, Deni is very passive on offense, I'm not denying that for a second, what I'm saying is that the problem is in his head, not with the athletic ability of his defender or the other team's defense in general, I even don't think his low shooting percentage got anything to do with his technique or how much he practice on shooting 3's.

Deni needs a mental coach and to not wait for other players to create opportunities for him, at the same time the Coaching staff needs to understand that whatever they are currently trying to do with him on offense isn't working, it's nice to see Deni practicing with Gortat but when was the last time the Wizards actually ran a play to isolate Deni on a shorter defender in the post? they never do that although many times Deni is defended by guards, also Kuzma can say he's mad at Deni for only scoring 9 points on his 20 rebounds game but it won't hurt if he'll pass the ball a little more instead of taking hard to make shots against 2 or 3 defenders.

[closg00]

It’s getting harder and harder to defend Deni. I’ve watched the last couple games OKC have played and hate to say it but Giddey is everything we hoped Deni would be, and Giddey is two years younger.

I like the fact the he is now taking advantage of his size and strength and bullying smaller guards when he gets a match up he likes. Deni meanwhile, dude barely looks at the rim, never uses his size against smaller/weaker guys, despite teams put their weakest defender on him, and generally just lacks confidence that you see from guys in their rookie year, not in their third year. He’s basically what Ben Simmons is now for the Nets, but with worse handles and playmaking,

I think this is key. Last summer I watched how Deni played at euro basket and it was night and day. There was even a game when he went toe to toe with Markinnen. He was clutch and even hit step back threes. This Deni is a shadow of his national team version…

Jan Vesely-type Euro comfort zone basically

[dckingsfan]

Good point about the free throws Doc. Every time I look the 3P%, I get discouraged. But in reality the improving FT% is probably a better indication of his ultimate shooting upside.

I gotta say, he really has the yips right now. His 3PAs aren't even close.

Yep, and if he further develops his ball handling and develops a mid-range game he isn't a negative on the offensive side of the ball.

I am still an optimist on Avdija over the next couple of seasons.

[doclinkin]

Which is why I was puzzled at Deni fans suggesting he should lead the team as a de facto PG (either as a starter or on the 2nd unit)

Again you put words in "Deni fans" mouths, asking him to get MORE minutes as a playmaker is not the same as asking to give him the leading PG position, even with the 2nd unit, I would be very happy if that happened, but nobody asked for it,

Lol you're so defensive. You're like one man Israeli Defense Force. In that you are constantly defending that one man. Like that dog that runs to the front window to bark at every leaf that falls. Look, it it doesn't apply to you, don't say nothin. But yes, scroll back through this thread and the Line-ups thread. Fans said exactly that. Hell, I might have even said it.

Fans had been loudly arguing that Euro play was exactly as athletic as the NBA, tougher even, and that Deni had been able to handle it despite being the focus of the NT's offense.

I don't remember anyone claiming Euro play in general is more or exactly as athletic...but the defense in the NBA, especially in recent years is much softer than Europe even when just comparing the rules, no defensive 3 seconds, hand-checking allowed, less spacing of shorter 3 pt line, how much the refs allow contact and the bigger motivation with smaller amount of games where every game counts against the NBA's 82 games regular season, don't take my word, there are enough quotes of players like Doncic saying the same thing, it's also a fact Deni was the focus of the opponents defense, unlike when he's playing with the Wizards.

And yet when he got to the NBA he was stifled. Snuffed. Smothered. Lost confidence. Not because he suddenly forgot how to play. But because what he does in Euro play suddenly did not work. Players are longer faster and more athletic. He can't blow past them. Fake them out. Outjump them. The reason Euroball allows hacking defense and goaltending, or rather the reason why the NBA does not, is precisely because it would give an unfair advantage on defense if players of this talent level were given free reign on that end. In a sport where the league average FG% is ~46% it is hard enough putting the ball in the basket.

Or okay go ahead and argue how much better Euro play is, then check the last 10 Olympics, where the US dominates playing by International rules. And take a look at how US players' FG%s jump when playing international ball.

To make it clear, Deni is very passive on offense, I'm not denying that for a second, what I'm saying is that the problem is in his head, not with the athletic ability of his defender or the other team's defense in general, I even don't think his low shooting percentage got anything to do with his technique or how much he practice on shooting 3's.

Deni needs a mental coach and to not wait for other players to create opportunities for him, at the same time the Coaching staff needs to understand that whatever they are currently trying to do with him on offense isn't working, it's nice to see Deni practicing with Gortat but when was the last time the Wizards actually ran a play to isolate Deni on a shorter defender in the post? they never do that although many times Deni is defended by guards

Why would they? Look at his shooting %'s on the interior. Raul Neto had a better % in the paint than Deni does. Look at Deni's shot percentages inside of 10 feet. If he isn't dunking he has no idea what to do.

Seriously. This is the guy you want backing players in?
2022-23 in the paint..
2021-22
2020-21

That is not the profile of a proficient interior scorer. Shoot, Deni misses wide open shots underneath. Hitting 27% on lay-ups is not a good look. You can talk about how the coaches don't know what to do with him, but they do know better than to ask him to play on the interior. It is just not his game. Yet, maybe. Maybe he can develop it. Looks to me like he is still learning the nuances of interior play.

I agree with you much of it is mental. That he can do some things in practice or in international play and then gets scared to try them here. I don't think it is the coaching that has gotten in his head. For all the bitching about coaching, Wes has tried any number of line-ups to see what works. Deni has been a playmaker on the 2nd unit. He commonly has had stints with the starters. Wes ran out the 2 Big line-up that fans have wanted for years. Deni has had opportunities. He's playing solid minutes. He gets touches. He is, as you say, passive.

Sure okay give him a sports therapist or hypnotist. Personally I agree that he just needs experience and reps. But he has to earn those. If he is shooting 36% on the inside then no coach who wants to keep his job is going to feature him there. He is getting stronger. He's a grinder who is willing to put in the work. I think he can develop a complete game. He has the coordination and footwork to make it work. He needs to figure out what his countermove is if he is stopped on a drive to the basket. As of right now he does not have it. Other than to pass out to another guy.

[AFM]

TALK TO EM DOC!!!!!! DENI DEFENSE FORCE DDF REVOLUTION!!!!

[Wizraeli]

Lol you're so defensive. You're like one man Israeli Defense Force. In that you are constantly defending that one man. Like that dog that runs to the front window to bark at every leaf that falls. Look, it it doesn't apply to you, don't say nothin. But yes, scroll back through this thread and the Line-ups thread. Fans said exactly that. Hell, I might have even said it.

You sound here way more defensive than I am with all of that unnecessary belittling.

You repeatedly refer to a group called "Deni fans" and attribute them things, if that doesn't apply to me then please enlighten me, who are these "Deni fans" that you refer to? it looks to me like it's enough for just 1 Israeli poster to say something for you to claim all of the Israeli posters have said it, because otherwise I don't understand that phrasing that you choose, if you would have said "some people" I wouldn't have said anything, but you repeatedly refer to a group called "Deni fans" so since assuming I'm part of that group, I take offense if I'm accused of something I haven't said, yes.

And yet when he got to the NBA he was stifled. Snuffed. Smothered. Lost confidence. Not because he suddenly forgot how to play. But because what he does in Euro play suddenly did not work. Players are longer faster and more athletic. He can't blow past them. Fake them out. Outjump them.

That's your assumption for the reason why he was better at the NT and didn't showed the same things in the NBA, not a fact, and in your assumption you blatantly ignore that he plays in two different roles in both teams, in the NT he's the go to player that all balls go through and expected to take the last shot, in the Wizards he got 2-3 players playing with him on the court in most minutes that fill that role and he's expected by the coach to be a role player, two very different situations that in my assumption apparently impact Deni's confidence much more than who's guarding him.

You can say the problem is that players are longer and faster and more athletic, but that doesn't seem to bother him on defense, he's 6'9" that usually effectively defend positions 1-4, size is not his problem, and relative to his height and weight he's not slow, but more important, he's very often defended by guards so in most cases he's the one who's longer and stronger than his defender, he's just not doing much with it both because of his confidence problem and also because the entire team doesn't use his advantages, last game he easily made a basket when Curry guarded him, why he and the team haven't tried to do the same thing again? so I don't see the logic of your claim that the problem is that he just face better players, if he can successfully score on Markkanen and Jokic in Eurobasket, he can score on Markkanen and Jokic in the NBA.

Or okay go ahead and argue how much better Euro play is, then check the last 10 Olympics, where the US dominates playing by International rules. And take a look at how US players' FG%s jump when playing international ball.

Now who's defensive? I haven't said anything about Euro play being much better, I've said the defense in Europe is better, and added "in recent years", I also said don't take my word, Doncic is the one who said it, in a different interview he also said it's easier to score in the NBA, do you want me to bring his quotes?

I don't think you checked yourself the last 10 Olympics, or you just don't remember why the nickname "Redeem Team" was ever invented.

Why would they? Look at his shooting %'s on the interior. Raul Neto had a better % in the paint than Deni does. Look at Deni's shot percentages inside of 10 feet. If he isn't dunking he has no idea what to do.

in the NT amazingly he has an idea what to do, you just said yourself "Not because he suddenly forgot how to play", anyone who've seen him in both teams should see his problem is not skills, it's mental, why would they? because it's suppose to be their interest for him to improve, and he's not going to improve without trying, right now the situation is that both he and the Wizards aren't even really trying to play on his advantages, and don't tell me again the team doesn't need to adjust to one player and sacrifice wins and all of that like if god forbid Deni will touch the ball the entire team will collapse...the Wizards aren't winning regardless of what they do with Deni, the main star of the team isn't playing half of the games and the entire offensive playbook is based on Kuzma taking hard shots and a 7'3" center shooting 3's in 34%...there's a reason why most of this forum is rooting for the team to tank, nothing apocalyptical will happen if the team will run a play for Deni once in a while, but now you'll ignore I wrote once in a while and say Deni fans are asking all plays to be played on Deni, right?

You can talk about how the coaches don't know what to do with him, but they do know better than to ask him to play on the interior.
It is just not his game. Yet, maybe. Maybe he can develop it. Looks to me like he is still learning the nuances of interior play.

No one asked him to play on the interior like he's Tim Duncan, I asked to run a play to isolate him to a post up on a smaller defender, if you'll notice a situation where he's got a smaller defender happens quite often but isn't used, I didn't asked to try and make him post Embiid or Giannis.

Without trying to do it in games his(or any other player) development pace will be extremely slow, and it is slow for him on offense, he got 1.5 seasons left on his contract, are you really happy with the rate of his development considering he might won't be here in 1.5 years? at the current rate what will happen is that either Deni will be traded next year or finish the season and will look for another team that will be more suited for his style of play, and because of his age he'll probably manage to find one even with his drawbacks on offense, if you're happy with that plan then fine, but I'm not, to me it sounds like a waste of 1.5 years for both him and the team.