2023 Draft Discussion

[RedIndian]

Have to say these Thompson twins look like they could be potential superstars too, but just Wemby and Scoot. This draft looks damn interesting.

[Slim Charless]

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Where would you put Black on this team? IDK if he can play point full time though his passing instincts are very good. Do you think he projects better there than Cason or Nick Smith?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Have to say these Thompson twins look like they could be potential superstars too, but just Wemby and Scoot. This draft looks damn interesting.

Definitely! There is so much more underlying high end talent throughout the first round and a few even into the 2nd. As for the Thompson twins, You're absolutely right about them having superstar potential. Amen has the athleticism of Morant and is super versatile but only needs to work on his shot and polish a bit. Ausar is more or less a slightly smaller budget wing version of Siakim extremely versatile and productive. But better shooting than his brother. Just slightly less electric and more systematic. And even after that, you still have:

- Cam Whitmore, WILL BE a star very similar to Derozan in impact/ talent.

- Nik Smith, Absolute star potential with high level impact is definitely a mix of McCollum, Jordan Poole, with a splash of Jamal Murray.

- Jett Howard, This kid you just gotta watch! Incredible offensive versatility, ballhandling, size at 6'8 and very crafty and shifty. He's more or less a slightly less athletic bargain version of Tatum or a bigger forward version of Dillon Brooks.

- Jerace Walker, This kid is big, physical, aggressive, and has legitimate guard skills. He really is like a Julius Randle clone only with better defensive versatility/ shot blocking.

- Cason Wallace, This kid is very fundamentally sound and a defensive maestro. He's as close to a Jrue Holiday clone as you'll find. Not yet a strong offensive threat, but still very solid.

- Keyontae George, This kid is big, strong, and avery dynamic offensive creator. He needs to polish up his shooting a bit, but is a surefire 20 point per game scorer with a developing playmaking skillset.

- GG Jackson, This versatile, athletic kid is boozing elite upside and has definite 2nd- 3rd option potential. Only downside is that he NEEDS FURTHER DEVELOPMENT as he's somewhat raw. He's an investment for the longterm, but IF a team is patient, they'll have a more versatile and polished version of Josh Smith mixed with JJ Hickson skillset here.

- Maxwell Lewis, This kid is incredibly versatile both offensively and defensively with playmaking skills/ and really high upside. Honestly, he's very similar to a mix of Phoenix era Joe Johnson/ paul pierce.

- Dariq Whitehead, This kid is a big strong versatile wing that has definite star potential. He's very, very similar in skillset, offensive ability to pre injury Oladipo. He's just got to get his conditioning back to become more explosive, dominant.

- Anthony Black, This kid is pretty fundamentally sound, Maybe doesn't really have star potential. But he dan absolutely be a very solid starter. He's a bit of a budget version of Giddey. Very similar in many ways. Very fundamentally productive, safe stable option.

- Kris Murray, This kid is very fundamentally solid and very versatile as a high IQ two way forward is honestly as close as you'll find to clippers version of Marcus Morris in terms of two way versatility and impact. Only with a much better disposition.

- Brice sensabaugh, This kid is a wrecking ball version of Desmond Bane honestly. Very physically impactful yet has solid versatility. He doesn't have star potential. But he can just do so many things for a thick, burly wing with guard skills and will be a very solid impact rotation/ fringe starter level player.

- Taylor Hendricks, a Jumbo wing that's very versatile and almost identical to Jaden McDaniels of the Timberwolves in every way. He'll be a high impact rotation player.

- Dayron Holmes, This jumbo wing forward at 6'10 is a very strong defender with a relentless motor and big time two way (developing upside) he's absolutely a mix of a high end Bobby Portis (offensively) and much more fluid forward version of Jarrett Allen ( defensively). He'd be perfect to address our rebounding and shot blocking frontcourt deficiencies next to Ayton. He'll be a high end rotation player with starter potential.

- Marcus Sasser, This kid is an absolute baller and big game shot maker. He's a very good ballhandler and absolute NBA level player. He's a mix of Kyle Lowry ( poise/ playmaking) and Stephon Marbury ( ballhandling/ iso creation/ penetration). He'll be an high level impact rotation player with absolute starting level potential. Easily the 2nd best lead guard after Scoot.

- Terquavion Smith, This kid is a very slick big time shotmaker with limitless range and high end confidence. He has developing playmaking skills too. He's basically a Bones Hyland clone but with some secondary playmaking ability. He'll be an impact rotation player/ high end bench option.


So EVEN IF the suns undercut themselves by pushing for a late seed play in option ( which I think is very ignorant/ shortsighted in pushing Book to play heavy minutes and risking further compounding his leg injuries which might shorten his career/ prime years) just to sneak into the playoffs to get embarrassed and bounced early again. We'll still be able to find and secure a premium talent that addresses one of our many unaddressed critical positional issues! BUT IF we are very judicious and cautious with our core durability and exercise significant load management, we can continue the course and FINALLY absolutely secure Book a legitimate #2 option to help carry the pressure and be much stronger longterm after Paul is gone!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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High end defensive switchibility that we've been severely missing at the 4 spot.

[bwgood77]

GoK, do you save all your writeups and lists of candidates along with your comparison to currrent or past nba players and all that, and all your trade ideas in a google doc or Word? So when you repost them you can just copy again? Or do you re-type every time. The curiousity is killing me.

[Ghost of Kleine]

GoK, do you save all your writeups and lists of candidates along with your comparison to currrent or past nba players and all that, and all your trade ideas in a google doc or Word? So when you repost them you can just copy again? Or do you re-type every time. The curiousity is killing me.

No, sorry man! I realize that might be infinitely easier. I'm not quite computer savvy enough to do that yet. So unfortunately I re-type them all. during my post stroke recovery, they gave me some (very minimal) basic computer lessons. But part of the residual deficits still somewhat present are random memory lapses and sporadic brain fog. I'm trying to work my way back at times though. Just a lot of random life distractions/ challenges tethered to the process.
(I'm sure it's probably something quite simple though.....lol.

[sunsbum]

That center for Kentucky is being slept on, I hope we target him if he stays in the second round. You can’t teach rebounding and physicality like that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

That center for Kentucky is being slept on, I hope we target him if he stays in the second round. You can’t teach rebounding and physicality like that.

Yeah! Oscar Tshiebwe is a walking double double. But would be a very nice change of pace as he's very strong, imposing, and plays physically. He projects quite similarly to Biyombo oddly enough in skillset as a rim runner/ paint big. But he does have very decent developing mid range game at 58%FG and is a ok but improving free throw shooter at 68%. And is only missing the three really. He'd definitely address our rebounding and physicality issues!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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The ringer just dropped their first round mock with full analysis and some really interesting comps and projections. For anyone curious about the potential prospects in our range and how they might fit, Give it a quick look over! it's good stuff!
By the way, IF we stay the course at/around the 10th spot in the lottery, O' conner has us taking this guy!


HEIGHT 6'4" / WEIGHT 193 / AGE 19.6 / WINGSPAN 6'8"
Points
- 11.3 - 57.6 TS%
3-point percentage
- 41.8 on 4.4 3PA/G
Assists
- 3.7 assists / 1.7 TOV/G
Steals
- 2 per game (roughly) with a 3.9 STL%

Cason WallaceKentucky, Freshman
PHOENIX SUNS
Venn Diagaram Icon
SHADES OF
Jrue Holiday, De'Anthony Melton
Game-changing point-of-attack defender who also fills gaps on offense as a playmaker and shooter.......................................

James Jones built a roster without enough ball handlers aside from Devin Booker and Chris Paul. Targeting a player who can facilitate is of the utmost importance, and it’s a bonus if they can thrive off the ball like Wallace can. With CP3 in the latter stages of his career, Wallace could also serve as a successor who could share the backcourt with Booker.
Outlier Traits:
- Hustle.
- Catch 'n' shoot threat.
- Feel for the game.
- Off ball defense.

Pluses

Defends much bigger than his height would suggest. Much like Jrue Holiday, he hounds opponents with his length, toughness, and fundamentals. On the ball, he stays seated in a low stance with arms wide, ready to poke at the ball or position himself to disrupt the path of opponents. With great strength, he’s able to withstand contact from stronger scorers, using his footwork to beat big wings to spots and then absorb contact without moving.

Instinctual off-ball defender who can make highlight-reel chasedown blocks and interceptions in passing lanes. He’ll win over fans with his hustle plays, whether it’s a dive for a loose ball or a charge taken.

Knockdown spot-up shooter with a quick release. Even if the pass is off target, he fluidly gets into his shot. Though Kentucky rarely used him off of movement actions like screens and handoffs, he’s shown a knack for getting open off of movement. In high school, he was provided chances off of screens and flourished.

Soft touch from all over the floor. He’s comfortable using floaters and runners. At the rim, he can use either hand. He’s also a good free throw shooter.

Turnover-averse shot creator. He takes good care of the ball and resists unnecessary risks. In the pick-and-roll, he’s best at hitting the roller. But he’s more of a straight-line driver at this stage, rather than someone who breaks down defenders in isolations. He’s best suited for a ball-sharing offense since he’s more of a combo guard.

MINUSES
Unproven shooter off the dribble, especially from behind the arc. He’s more comfortable from midrange, especially going to his right. But he hasn’t shown the ability to use crossovers to generate space for jumpers. In part, it’s because he lacks an elite first step to get by defenders as he begins his attack.

Considering his lack of burst off the dribble and his lack of an elite handle, he may not have the go-to scoring upside that some teams desire in a top pick. Fit will matter for him, because he needs to be paired with a primary guard that he can thrive off of. But as guards like Tyrese Haliburton have shown, those shotmaking skills can develop over time.

Limited by a persistent back injury throughout his freshman season.

[Djedefre]

I like Wallace a lot. He plays smart and responsible most of the time, is a great c&s guy, defense rock solid. I see a solid contributor from day 1. Not exactly a future star but the kind of player we're really in need of.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I like Wallace a lot. He plays smart and responsible most of the time, is a great c&s guy, defense rock solid. I see a solid contributor from day 1. Not exactly a future star but the kind of player we're really in need of.

Great analysis man! I completely agree!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Should we find ourselves outside of the lottery and still prioritizing a lead guard option, This kid really wouldn't be a bad consolation prize with a mid-late 1st (18-24 range pick)?? He's a really solid ballhandler and iso creator, and a big shot maker too. His style of play/skillset is kind of a mix of Kyle Lowry (thick, strong build, durable and gritty) and Stephon Marbury (strong lateral burst, quick first step and strong hesi/change of pace crafty/creative isolation scorer and on penetration). Here's a good example:

Spoiler:

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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Another really great jumbo wing option outside the lottery! Tracts very similarly to Jaden Mcdaniels of the Timberwolves. A surefire versatile impact frontcourt talent in the 16-24 range of the draft.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Although I really love the idea of acquiring a 2nd late first or early 2nd to possibly use on Grant Nelson (budget Markannen/Kirilenko) for our long term core 3/4 development. He's a little bit raw still, but still is absolutely an NBA level athlete with an elite/versatile skillset. Also, I do really have to wonder about this kid as a late 2nd - undrafted option out of Utah:

Branden Carlson (Utah)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4592435/branden-carlson
High Quality 7 ft 3 & D 4/5. Could he be our next Kaminsky????

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rim protection (2.3 blocks per game).

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Floor spacing (40.1%).
(He tracts somewhat closely to Jaob Poetl defensively). But with 3 point shooting.

[kennydorglas]

This grant nelson kid seems intriguing tbh
Looks like he'll test well at the combine too
Definitely looks like a sleeper

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[Ghost of Kleine]

This grant nelson kid seems intriguing tbh
Looks like he'll test well at the combine too
Definitely looks like a sleeper

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Yeah! He absolutely has the tools, versatility, legitimate NBA athleticism. He just needs to work on his jumpshot consistency, tighten up his handle a bit and basically get more seasoning/reps. He's got absurd versatility though. I'd take him, put him in the G league and on a disciplined strength and conditioning regimen. And let him get stronger and more polished! But he currently tracts very similar to Markannen when he came into the league in terms of tools/versatility!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[SlovenianDragon]

Hey gok what players look the most like nba stars...and by looks I mean physical appearance

[Ghost of Kleine]

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This kid would be another example great value for frontcourt depth with a late 2nd pick. He's high energy, aggressive, great dunker, solid shot blocker and rebounder too. His value isn't high primarily because he's not yet able to hit threes and has an old school game that needs to evolve. But is absolutely productive in a simplified role.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Hey gok what players look the most like nba stars...and by looks I mean physical appearance

So then if I'm understanding you correctly, Just have that physically dominant appearance (in game?) and general the general look (physical demeanor/behavioral expression of star talent??

Well to be honest, there are quite a few players embodying those specific attributes. But based on physical appearance alone "in game", as well as externally (just have "that" look, Here's my list of elite/ legitimate star level players (some will need development/ reps/ seasoning) but will reach that level for sure:

(1st round)
(80% of top 5 exhibit that "physical appearance" of star upside.
- Victor Wembanyama. (Franchise centerpiece)
- Scoot Henderson. (Franchise Cornerstone)
- Amen Thompson. (Franchise cornerstone)
- Cam Whitmore. (Franchise cornerstone)
- Ausar Thompson. (Franchise cornerstone)
- Brandon Miller. (Franchise Cornerstone).

(Outside of the top 6 / rest of first round) Mostly 2nd -3rd star level options.
- Jerace Walker. (Fringe star/Elite level impact starter)
- Jett Howard. (Fringe star/ High level impact starter).
- Brice Sensabaugh. (Fringe star/ High level impact contributor)
- Dariq Whitehead. (Fringe star/ High level impact contributor)
- Marcus Sasser. (Fringe star/ High level impact contributor)
- GG Jackson. *** But still very raw and will need a couple years to polish up his game. (fringe star/ High level impact contributor/ ** After some development as currently raw).
- Maxwell Lewis. (Fringe star/ High level impact contributor) *** Just needs to get stronger and add some polish.

(2nd round) ( Underrated/ Under the radar, But exhibiting ELITE star level outlier physical traits/ in game physical appearances of star level talent/ skills)??

- Leonard Miller. ( Elite Level offensive versatility/ fluidity for his size). ** Just needs to get stronger and work on his defensive polish and aggression).
- Baba Miller. (Elite level defensive versatility/ Elite fluidity and two-way versatility).
- Daron Holmes. (Elite defensive talent/motor/ switchability). *** Just needs to add offensive polish, and work on ball handling fluidity).
- EMONI BATES. (Elite STAR LEVEL offensive versatility/ confidence/swagger) *** Just needs to work on getting stronger, developing better discipline/poise with seasoning and maturity. But he definitely has that "IT Factor" similar to Book and other MVP level stars. No fear whatsoever in big game moments!
- **** Keyontae Johnson**
IF health holds, Johnson has Elite two way versatility and motor. Can physically be a dominant offensive wing level option that everyone is still sleeping on due to health concerns.

I really hoped that I answered your question correctly man! If you'd like even more specific answers, like most elite athleticism, most physically dominant/ strong/imposing, or most elite versatility either offensively (Bucket getter/ shot maker/ take over game) or most elite defensively ( Lockdown defender/ potential game changer by position), best "in game" manager (floor general/ leader) just feel free to ask about any particular archetype k? I'm really just awaiting our finalized draft ranges to find us the best star/impact outcome still available when we're drafting. As well as the still unknown or under the radar 2nd round to late draft/ undrafted impact options for us too.