How good was Julius Erving?

[ShaqAttac]

3 rings, 4 mvp, 2 fmvp. How good was he?

[Joao Saraiva]

Good enough to be in the top 15 of all time.

Obviously he was a tremendous player.

[bebopdeluxe]

If you never saw the ABA version of Doc, you cannot fully appreciate his creativity and greatness. The NBA version was very good, but the ABA version - especially for its time - was incredible. Think of the jaw-dropping plays that Ja puts out there. That was Doc literally every night in the ABA. And there were a lot of good players that he was going up against, too...it wasn't like the G-League or something.

If you have never seen an Erving ABA highlight reel, go to YouTube and watch one. And honestly, I don't think those highlight reels do justice to Doc's sheer artistry on the floor (and it WAS artistry).

[NZB2323]

Good enough to be in the top 15 of all time.

Oviously he was a tremendous player.

Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.

[dhsilv2]

Good enough to be in the top 15 of all time.

Oviously he was a tremendous player.

Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.

i've got KG (obviously), Robinson, and Malone over Dr J though Robinson and Malone are very debatable. Moses needs to be WAY WAY further down. KD is also making a case over Dr J at this point. CP3 might have a case too if you're looking at his longevity.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Seems like a lot of his early games were tough to catch. As cool as the ABA was, it sucks that the talent was divided. I don’t know what to do with results from either league.

[IAMZOOTED2]

For a really accurate portrayal of the only DOCTOR, start by reading Terry Pluto’s Loose Balls. It’s from Doctor J’s early days when he was complete terror on both ends of the floor

[tsherkin]

Very good player. Obviously, his rank in league history depends heavily on how you treat the ABA. Not a guy who would age quite as well as some others in league history, but very accomplished. I personally don't much care for the ABA because it wasn't the NBA; if it wasn't the NBA, then I don't really put effort into caring. Different league. But even in the NBA, Doctor J was accomplished. He still had an MVP and a couple of All-Star Game MVPs, as well as a title. He got the Sixers to the Finals three times. He was a similar scorer in the NBA per-minute compared to the ABA. Didn't peak as high, but he translated quite well.

He hit the NBA at sort of a crossroads, I guess. Not the deepest point in league history, for sure. Until probably 82, he was fighting with Kareem as arguably the best player in the league. That's a pretty strong half-decade of him being a monster to do so before Bird and Magic started to really take over the league.

Erving was a very good player. He'd suffer later in league evolution for not being a particularly good shooter, nor a dominant playmaker, but he was exciting, he was a brutal transition threat, he was a great defensive wing and he knew how to fit in with his teammates. A very good player who melded perfectly alongside Moses for that 83 title.

I look at him as a top 20, top 25 type of guy at this point in league history. If you'd asked me 15 years ago, I'd have answered differently and more favorably, but things change over time. Same with Oscar, West and Wilt.

[The Lamma]

Dr J playing with Moses, Mo Cheeks, and Andrew Toney was some beautiful basketball

[NZB2323]

Good enough to be in the top 15 of all time.

Oviously he was a tremendous player.

Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.

i've got KG (obviously), Robinson, and Malone over Dr J though Robinson and Malone are very debatable. Moses needs to be WAY WAY further down. KD is also making a case over Dr J at this point. CP3 might have a case too if you're looking at his longevity.

Why does Moses have to be way further down?

NBA champion
Finals MVP
3x MVP
13x all-star
4x all-NBA 1st team
4x all-NBA 2nd team
9th all time in points
3rd all time in rebounds
1st all time in offensive rebounds
2nd all time in free throws made
25th all time in blocks

Went 12-1 in the playoffs in 83, sweeping Magic and Kareem, averaging 26 and 16 on 58.7 TS%.

I could see the argument for KG over Moses, but David Robinson, Karl Malone, and CP3? I don’t see it.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.

i've got KG (obviously), Robinson, and Malone over Dr J though Robinson and Malone are very debatable. Moses needs to be WAY WAY further down. KD is also making a case over Dr J at this point. CP3 might have a case too if you're looking at his longevity.

Why does Moses have to be way further down?

NBA champion
Finals MVP
3x MVP
13x all-star
4x all-NBA 1st team
4x all-NBA 2nd team
9th all time in points
3rd all time in rebounds
1st all time in offensive rebounds
2nd all time in free throws made
25th all time in blocks

Went 12-1 in the playoffs in 83, sweeping Magic and Kareem, averaging 26 and 16 on 58.7 TS%.

I could see the argument for KG over Moses, but David Robinson, Karl Malone, and CP3? I don’t see it.

I don't even see the KG argument tbh.
What is it? Just that we think he could have been better but for terrible management in Minny?
That's possible but does a hypothetical really impact legacy rankings that much? Everyone's career could be better with hindsight hypotheticals.

[dhsilv2]

Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.

i've got KG (obviously), Robinson, and Malone over Dr J though Robinson and Malone are very debatable. Moses needs to be WAY WAY further down. KD is also making a case over Dr J at this point. CP3 might have a case too if you're looking at his longevity.

Why does Moses have to be way further down?

NBA champion
Finals MVP
3x MVP
13x all-star
4x all-NBA 1st team
4x all-NBA 2nd team
9th all time in points
3rd all time in rebounds
1st all time in offensive rebounds
2nd all time in free throws made
25th all time in blocks

Went 12-1 in the playoffs in 83, sweeping Magic and Kareem, averaging 26 and 16 on 58.7 TS%.

I could see the argument for KG over Moses, but David Robinson, Karl Malone, and CP3? I don’t see it.

Well KG is just clearly far and away better at basketball. Moses wasn't a good defender as these things go. He was a horrid passer. He was just not a complete guy like most of these guys are. If you're going off accolades I guess I'd have moses higher, but his 3 MVP's really don't hold up to any scrutiny and these other guys have more all nba's and what not. Heck Malone even had 2 MVP's to his 3. Robinson at his best was an absolute monster. If you'd given any of those guys the same talent Moses had during his one title, they'd have won more.

[dhsilv2]

i've got KG (obviously), Robinson, and Malone over Dr J though Robinson and Malone are very debatable. Moses needs to be WAY WAY further down. KD is also making a case over Dr J at this point. CP3 might have a case too if you're looking at his longevity.

Why does Moses have to be way further down?

NBA champion
Finals MVP
3x MVP
13x all-star
4x all-NBA 1st team
4x all-NBA 2nd team
9th all time in points
3rd all time in rebounds
1st all time in offensive rebounds
2nd all time in free throws made
25th all time in blocks

Went 12-1 in the playoffs in 83, sweeping Magic and Kareem, averaging 26 and 16 on 58.7 TS%.

I could see the argument for KG over Moses, but David Robinson, Karl Malone, and CP3? I don’t see it.

I don't even see the KG argument tbh.
What is it? Just that we think he could have been better but for terrible management in Minny?
That's possible but does a hypothetical really impact legacy rankings that much? Everyone's career could be better with hindsight hypotheticals.

Without wasting time and energy. If you judge a player on how good they were at basketball compared to the guys they played against, KG is top 10 all time. If you're judging them on things they had no control over...well KG still has a great case given he lead one if not the most dominate defense of all time to a title.

[TheLand13]

Good enough to be in the top 15 of all time.

Oviously he was a tremendous player.

Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.

I can't take any list that has Kobe over Shaq seriously.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Yeah Moses is the all-timer version of the C who’s been pushed out of the league. 3 MVPs is outstanding but give me every MVP since over him.

[hippesthippo]

Where's that 70's guy when you need him with some footage? All I know is he was good enough to compete with Kareem, has some great highlights, and was a total badass in HBOMax's portrayal of him.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Why does Moses have to be way further down?

NBA champion
Finals MVP
3x MVP
13x all-star
4x all-NBA 1st team
4x all-NBA 2nd team
9th all time in points
3rd all time in rebounds
1st all time in offensive rebounds
2nd all time in free throws made
25th all time in blocks

Went 12-1 in the playoffs in 83, sweeping Magic and Kareem, averaging 26 and 16 on 58.7 TS%.

I could see the argument for KG over Moses, but David Robinson, Karl Malone, and CP3? I don’t see it.

I don't even see the KG argument tbh.
What is it? Just that we think he could have been better but for terrible management in Minny?
That's possible but does a hypothetical really impact legacy rankings that much? Everyone's career could be better with hindsight hypotheticals.

Without wasting time and energy. If you judge a player on how good they were at basketball compared to the guys they played against, KG is top 10 all time. If you're judging them on things they had no control over...well KG still has a great case given he lead one if not the most dominate defense of all time to a title.

He's 19th all-time in MVP Award shares.
That's really good but still quite a bit off from top 10.
That sounds like as good of an objective measure of "how good they were at basketball compared to the guys they played against" as any, so not sure what evidence you're looking at or what your basing this on.
Is this just a subjective eye test thing for you?
Also Ben Wallace led a dominant defense to a title and he isn't even close to top-10 all time, so your second criteria seems pretty obviously flawed as well.

[WarriorGM]

Dr. J was Jordan before Jordan.

[WillyJakkz]

NBA Comparison: 6'7" Giannis Antetokounmpo w/ an afro

Dr J was unbelievable and ahead of his time. Not the best shooter or ball handler but couldn't stop him when he drove. Excellent on ball and help defender.

He gets overlooked due to the NBA selling the ABA as an inferior product and people believed it so they rank him lower All Time as proven in some people's rankings above.

But the truth is during that time period it was hard to accept too many black players on one team or League but clearly the ABA had comparable talent.

Watch for yourself and make your own determination.

Watch on YouTube

[dhsilv2]

I don't even see the KG argument tbh.
What is it? Just that we think he could have been better but for terrible management in Minny?
That's possible but does a hypothetical really impact legacy rankings that much? Everyone's career could be better with hindsight hypotheticals.

Without wasting time and energy. If you judge a player on how good they were at basketball compared to the guys they played against, KG is top 10 all time. If you're judging them on things they had no control over...well KG still has a great case given he lead one if not the most dominate defense of all time to a title.

He's 19th all-time in MVP Award shares.
That's really good but still quite a bit off from top 10.
That sounds like as good of an objective measure of "how good they were at basketball compared to the guys they played against" as any, so not sure what evidence you're looking at or what your basing this on.
Is this just a subjective eye test thing for you?
Also Ben Wallace led a dominant defense to a title and he isn't even close to top-10 all time, so your second criteria seems pretty obviously flawed as well.

The stat argument's for KG are about as well documented here as you could ask for.

MVP share is the subjective voting of journalists.