Better Passer - Jokic or LeBron?

[parsnips33]

Title says it all - who's the better passer?

[Colbinii]

Just like LeBron is a better passer than many smaller yet comparable players because of angles he can utilize, Jokic has an advantage here in part because of that but also his passing is as fluid and creative as anyone ever--Nash and Magic included.

[Proxy]

My top passers OAT list goes Jokic -> Bird -> Magic -> LeBron

[magicman1978]

It terms of pure passing skills this is not close - Jokic is a much better passer.

[rk2023]

I think those are half of the best passers ever, along with Magic and Bird.

Arguments for LeBron:
• Better moving passer (especially while accelerating)
• Better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense

Arguments for Jokic:
• Better stationary passer (think like how Walton and Bird made themselves good in this regard, Jokic does this with more upper body strength than both imo)
• Better one-handed passer, as granular as that is
• Better passer within the flow of offense

[Matt15]

Jokic rather handedly. Lebron is a tier below Jokic, Bird, Magic and Nash for me.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

My impression is that what Jokic has over the likes of LeBron and even Magic are his "soft" passes. The other two can throw cannon balls into any hole in the defense, but Jokic can also hit guys with these soft lobs that magically appear in the hand of his teammates that require an absolutely ridicolous level of timing, anticipation and precision.

[Vox Populi]

Arguments for LeBron:
• Better moving passer (especially while accelerating)
• Better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense

Arguments for Jokic:
• Better stationary passer (think like how Walton and Bird made themselves good in this regard, Jokic does this with more upper body strength than both imo)
• Better one-handed passer, as granular as that is
• Better passer within the flow of offense

I like the way you have laid this out. Hope you do not mind if I re-use your points.

I feel Lebron uses his passing more to put himself in better positions to score, lacking the 1-on-1 skills of an MJ. Whereas Jokic uses his passing purely to improve his team's play. So I gave Jokic the point about being a "better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense", and moved it to the top of the list as I think it is the most important.

I also moved "better passer within the flow of offense" to second in the list, as that is next most important.

Arguments for Jokic:
• Better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense
• Better passer within the flow of offense
• Better stationary passer (think like how Walton and Bird made themselves good in this regard, Jokic does this with more upper body strength than both imo)
• Better one-handed passer, as granular as that is

Arguments for LeBron:
• Better moving passer (especially while accelerating)

[rk2023]

I think those are half of the best passers ever, along with Magic and Bird.

Arguments for LeBron:
• Better moving passer (especially while accelerating)
• Better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense

Arguments for Jokic:
• Better stationary passer (think like how Walton and Bird made themselves good in this regard, Jokic does this with more upper body strength than both imo)
• Better one-handed passer, as granular as that is
• Better passer within the flow of offense

I like the way you have laid this out. Hope you do not mind if I re-use your points.

I feel Lebron mainly uses his passing to put himself in better positions to score, lacking the 1-on-1 skills of an MJ type player. Whereas Jokic uses his passing purely to improve his team's play. So I gave Jokic the point about being a "better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense", and moved it to the top of the list as I think it is the most important.

I also moved "better passer within the flow of offense" to second in the list, as that is next most important.

Arguments for Jokic:
• Better passer while orchestrating and controlling the offense
• Better passer within the flow of offense
• Better stationary passer (think like how Walton and Bird made themselves good in this regard, Jokic does this with more upper body strength than both imo)
• Better one-handed passer, as granular as that is

Arguments for LeBron:
• Better moving passer (especially while accelerating)

Thank you for sharing your perspective! I agree in the regards that LeBron is a rare talent that's able to blend his scoring into passing to a point even surpassing that of Magic Johnson (albeit, Magic is a better passer and playmaker). I think Jokic does this to a lesser extent when inside the three-point line, but his top of the key passes are a sight to behold and an area I feel like he has over all three of Bird, LBJ, Magic.

[No-more-rings]

Lebron’s passing numbers maintain better in the postseason, that’s probably something worth discussing.

[No-more-rings]

Jokic rather handedly. Lebron is a tier below Jokic, Bird, Magic and Nash for me.

I think Nash and Magic are in a tier of their own honestly.

[Peregrine01]

My impression is that what Jokic has over the likes of LeBron and even Magic are his "soft" passes. The other two can throw cannon balls into any hole in the defense, but Jokic can also hit guys with these soft lobs that magically appear in the hand of his teammates that require an absolutely ridicolous level of timing, anticipation and precision.

Jokic throws post entry passes over the hands of a fronting defender from half court. He makes them look so easy that no one is stunned by them but literally no one attempts these passes, let alone completes them.

[OhayoKD]

My impression is that what Jokic has over the likes of LeBron and even Magic are his "soft" passes. The other two can throw cannon balls into any hole in the defense, but Jokic can also hit guys with these soft lobs that magically appear in the hand of his teammates that require an absolutely ridicolous level of timing, anticipation and precision.

I think this describes the difference quite aptly.

[frica]

Lebron has much better dribbling and can pass better from a dribble.

It's Jokic, but the above makes it a lot closer than the gap in passing skills would have you assume.

[zimpy27]

Jokic is standstill and LeBron is moving.

Being a big who makes a lot of passes from the post, I feel like it's a lot easier to do that than from a live dribble. When you're at a standstill you don't have to wait for the ball to come back to your hand from a dribble to them pass, so timing is a lot easier IMO.

I think what LeBron does is more impressive from my perspective but keen to hear from people that have experience passing as a perimeter player off a live dribble

[OhayoKD]

Jokic is standstill and LeBron is moving.

Being a big who makes a lot of passes from the post, I feel like it's a lot easier to do that than from a live dribble. When you're at a standstill you don't have to wait for the ball to come back to your hand from a dribble to them pass, so timing is a lot easier IMO.

I think what LeBron does is more impressive from my perspective but keen to hear from people that have experience passing as a perimeter player off a live dribble

I think there's a trade-off tho in that static-passers are typically given less space than moving passers.

Movement also helps generate power which might be harder to replicate if you're doing it from one spot

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Jokic is standstill and LeBron is moving.

Being a big who makes a lot of passes from the post, I feel like it's a lot easier to do that than from a live dribble. When you're at a standstill you don't have to wait for the ball to come back to your hand from a dribble to them pass, so timing is a lot easier IMO.

I think what LeBron does is more impressive from my perspective but keen to hear from people that have experience passing as a perimeter player off a live dribble

it requires different skills, but off the dribble you are controlling your movement on the court and you can create the angles for a pass even if your teammates don't move or just go on straight line.
from a standstill you are not moving but there are likely four guys screening and cutting and four extra defenders follwing them or coming at you. that's much more to process and often it requires a higher level of manupulation/anticipation.
of course it depends on the actual play, but not moving you have one less weapon to create the opening.

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[1993Playoffs]

I get confused when people say LeBron is a tier below the absolute best passers in history. Like what’s the reasoning for it.

[HeartBreakKid]

I get confused when people say LeBron is a tier below the absolute best passers in history. Like what’s the reasoning for it.

His passes aren't cool looking enough.

[70sFan]

I get confused when people say LeBron is a tier below the absolute best passers in history. Like what’s the reasoning for it.

His passes aren't cool looking enough.

I don't really think that's the reason.