Is Pascal Siakam an empty stats guy?

[YogurtProducer]

Not at all

Edit: to expand further. He was great in the playoffs in '19 and had a great strech last year to go from a non all star to a well worthy All NBA player.

he got lucky in 2019 that prime Kawhi was his teammate

Explain why we hold Siakam to this standard for being lucky but no other 2nd option on a playoff team?

AD was lucky LBJ was his teammate in 2020 to I guess.

[aminiaturebuddha]

He's not a great passer, or a reliable 3p

Not a great passer? Have you watched Pascal in the last 2 years? He's an excellent passer.

But I'll give you a pass since you're a Mavs fan. Maybe watching Luka the past few years has warped your view of what good passing is, because frankly there's almost no one that can match up with him.

So yeah, compared to Luka, Pascal is not a good passer, but compared to the rest of the league, he's absolutely one of the best passing forwards in the NBA.

[LascelleL]

hes a 3rd or 4th option.

He was literally the 2nd option on a championship team

Lowry was the 2nd best player on that squad.

Lowry was the 2nd best player but not the 2nd Scoring option.

[Got Nuffin]

Siakam is a good passer, ball handler at his size, solid defender, hustles, can create his own shot, play off ball, scores from all over the floor aside from 3.

He is simply not cut out to be a true no1 option just like a lot of other All Star level players. He also IMO struggles to share the floor with Scottie Barnes who has a kinda similar skillset to him. If that makes him empty stats for some reason sure, but just like in 2019 put him next to someone who can draw the defence away from him and there's no doubt he would be a problem.

Some playoff team that trades for him is going to be very happy post-deadline the way this season is going imo.

[Johnny Bball]

hes a 3rd or 4th option.

He was literally the 2nd option on a championship team

As a sophmore. Smfh, people should watch basketball.

[KuruptedCav]

He’s a quality player, a good #2, a floor raiser. This run up to all-pro has been inefficient and empty; hence the performances not translating to wins, despite largely the same surrounding cast.


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[YogurtProducer]

hes a 3rd or 4th option.

He was literally the 2nd option on a championship team

As a sophmore. Smfh, people should watch basketball.

3rd year player. He started a bunch of games as a rook, led bench mob as a sophomore, then championship year in which he was supposed to split starting duties with OG before Siakam just took off

[WestbrookGOATed]

hes a 3rd or 4th option.

Are you implying that he's a 1st or 2nd option?

[nikster]

hes a 3rd or 4th option.

Are you implying that he's a 1st or 2nd option?

Yeah the guy averaging 25 and 6.5 assists, so crazy to think he's a 2nd option

[Lockdown504090]

Are you implying that he's a 1st or 2nd option?

Yeah the guy averaging 25 and 6.5 assists, so crazy to think he's a 2nd option

League average or slightly below efficiency, not a great shooter, negative on a lot of defensive metrics and eye test this year. Not a lot of rebounds for the minutes he plays. Along the worst at 34 fg% in the clutch? He’s obviously in a role that’s too large for him

[Duffman100]

Are you implying that he's a 1st or 2nd option?

Yeah the guy averaging 25 and 6.5 assists, so crazy to think he's a 2nd option

League average or slightly below efficiency, not a great shooter, negative on a lot of defensive metrics and eye test this year. Not a lot of rebounds for the minutes he plays. Along the worst at 34 fg% in the clutch? He’s obviously in a role that’s too large for him

As the #1 option yes, he is definitely in a role that's too large for him.

I think Nikster is sarcastically saying it's 'crazy to think' of him as a 2nd option.

[Johnny Bball]

He was literally the 2nd option on a championship team

As a sophmore. Smfh, people should watch basketball.

3rd year player. He started a bunch of games as a rook, led bench mob as a sophomore, then championship year in which he was supposed to split starting duties with OG before Siakam just took off

I just ignored the g league season is all. Same same anyway.

[PennSports]

hes real good at getting hot headed and taking out the best player on his way out of the playoffs in a total loser move.

Heat MVP

If that happened to a more well liked player he would be eviscerated for it non F---ing stop

[YogurtProducer]

hes real good at getting hot headed and taking out the best player on his way out of the playoffs in a total loser move.

Heat MVP

If that happened to a more well liked player he would be eviscerated for it non F---ing stop

Your team has Joel Embiid who recklessly throws his 275 pound body at people constantly and is flailing around like he got shot.

[bronxknicksfan1]

ya he has and its not even arguable. By literally zero measure has either been better than Siakam. And if youre gonna use wins, why not argue that Brunson has been better than Curry too, lol

By zero measure? Basketball reference is your friend with any measure you need. Siakam and Randle are basically neck and neck in damn near every stat. Siakam’s per game and advanced stats are on par with both Randle and Brunson. He hasn’t been that special this year.

As for Steph, his team is above .500 when he plays. So, there’s that.

Basketball reference is your friend. You can look up and down at every advanced metric and Siakam is >Brunson or Randle

https://stathead.com/tiny/Ym0T5

https://stathead.com/tiny/gze3D

Looking at every metric, per game stats show they all score around the same. Advanced metrics show they’re all around the same efficiency and similar BPM and VORP. If anything, stats show a slight advantage to Randle > Siakam this season. But that’s neither here nor there.

[Raptor_Guy]

He's not a great passer, or a reliable 3p

Huh?

[jfs1000d]

He's a good player. I don't get it.

He's a top 20-25 nba player. He isn't Jayson Tatum, which is why the Celtics are where they are and the Raps are where they are.

He's closer to Jaylen Brown. No. 2 all-star top 25-30 player on a championship level team. As a NO. 1? The team is probably 44-38 caliber. Give or take 5 wins depending on injuries and luck.

Good player.

No shame in who he is or career. To go from Top 20 to top 10 is an exponential jump.

[Raptor_Guy]

He's a good player. I don't get it.

He's a top 20-25 nba player. He isn't Jayson Tatum, which is why the Celtics are where they are and the Raps are where they are.

He's closer to Jaylen Brown. No. 2 all-star top 25-30 player on a championship level team. As a NO. 1? The team is probably 44-38 caliber. Give or take 5 wins depending on injuries and luck.

Good player.

No shame in who he is or career. To go from Top 20 to top 10 is an exponential jump.

This is pretty spot on, though in his defense, the Raptors won the 3rd most games in the NBA in the 2019-2020 season with him as their number 1 option, so it's not impossible. Though he did stink in the bubble playoffs.

[Harry Garris]

No. An empty stats guy is a guy who’s scoring a lot but in an inefficient manner. There are hardly any guys like that in the nba anymore and as far as I’m aware they pretty much all play for tanking teams

[bronxknicksfan1]

Almost like having a bench is important or something, and when you have limited depth injuries are going to be even more devastating than other teams.

Raptors offense gets 9 points worse when Siakam sits.

There is not a single player 1 for 1 Toronto would accept for Siakam and not a player the Knicks would keep untouchable for Siakam. Hell, I am not sure the Raptors would swap anyone for Siakam, OG, or Barnes for on your roster. Our record due to factors outside those 3's control doesn't mean they are no good.

If the Knicks’ bench wasn’t absolutely horrific this year, you’d have a point there. Randle, Brunson and RJ have been playing 40+ min many times this season, especially recently because the bench is underwhelming.

And considering how flawed all those players are, I’m fine with the Knicks not trading for them. If they were truly worth what your management thought they were, they would’ve been traded by now. Rather deal with our flawed players that are leading us to a winning record.

This is a lot of talk from a fan of a team who has not won a playoff series in a decade

If you are incapable of using some nuance to understand the issues with the Raptors, then IDK what to tell you. Next you are going to tell me that all the Knicks players are better than Lebron and AD simply due to team record, right?

The Raptors players are certainly better than their record:

1. Individually the Raptors smoke the Knicks in top end talent. The Raptors starting lineup is not a great fit (a non-shooter in Barnes, two average shooters in Siakam/OG, and 2 good shooters having horrible years from 3 in FVV/GTJ),

2. We have a very poor bench, and our best bench guys (Precious/Otto) have played a combined 29 games.

3. As we have little to no depth (not Siakam, Barnes, OG, etc. fault), when those guys miss times we are often stuck starting guys like Koloko, Juancho Hernangomez, Thad Young, etc. - aka guys who are not even rotation quality. This is very important when you consider that our top 7 (starters + Otto/Precious) have missed a combined 56 games (plus 37 from Otto). We simply just do not have the ability to withstand any injuries as most of our current youth just has been bad. Malachi Flynn shoots 36% on 2 point shots.

If you are going to retort with ReCoRd (which also ignores our 48 wins last year with the same 5 guys while NYK was at home watching the playoffs), then just do not bother responding please.

Telling me the Knicks sucked in the past doesn’t change that the Knicks are better than the Craptors now.

Considering none of the players on the Raptors are close to LeBron or AD’s level, don’t even know the point of even bringing them up.

As for why the Craptors suck, every team deals with injuries. They’re not even the team that has faced the most adversity when it comes to injuries.

Read on Twitter

Middle of the pack when it comes to games missed by injury. You’d think the whole team was out the way you are making excuses.

And the rotations? If there’s one thing very similar about Thibs and Nurse, they run a very short rotation. Knicks starters routinely run 35-40 min a game because of how bad the bench is.

Doesn’t matter what they did last year either. We’re talking about this year. 2 years ago, the Knicks were a top 4 seed with Randle leading the way and getting 2nd Team All-NBA. Doesn’t matter when speaking about this season.