Detroit - New York - Portland

[tester551]

Hart

2023-24 Contract details by year 28 $12,960,000

Contract Notes:
2022-23: non-guaranteed, fully guaranteed on 6/25/22
2023-24: Player Option/non-guaranteed, fully guaranteed on 6/25/23 (option deadline 6/25/23)



Since Hart could become a Free Agent, I have the Knicks refusing to do this trade.

That's great!
I have Portland refusing to include him in this trade proposal.

[tester551]

How is Toppin as a defender?

Still has plenty of room for improvement, but he's already a lot better than I ever though he'd be.

Slightly better than Anfrenee Simon's level.

[Myth]

How is Toppin as a defender?

Still has plenty of room for improvement, but he's already a lot better than I ever though he'd be.

Slightly better than Anfrenee Simon's level.

Then I’m not so sure about this trade. Portland needs to upgrade their wing defense, not downgrade it. Maybe if Portland got a better starting level defender at SF instead, because I like the idea of Noel backing up Nurkic. If Toppin is that bad at D and he is our primary SF, then him and Simons would share court time (plus Lillard) and that is a recipe for disaster.

[cgf]

Still has plenty of room for improvement, but he's already a lot better than I ever though he'd be.

Slightly better than Anfrenee Simon's level.

Then I’m not so sure about this trade. Portland needs to upgrade their wing defense, not downgrade it. Maybe if Portland got a better starting level defender at SF instead, because I like the idea of Noel backing up Nurkic. If Toppin is that bad at D and he is our primary SF, then him and Simons would share court time (plus Lillard) and that is a recipe for disaster.

Obi's not bad, but he's not a significant positive either...plus he shouldn't primarily be a 3. He can play some Jumbo-3 next to Randle and a 5, but most of his minutes should come at the 4.

[Myth]

Slightly better than Anfrenee Simon's level.

Then I’m not so sure about this trade. Portland needs to upgrade their wing defense, not downgrade it. Maybe if Portland got a better starting level defender at SF instead, because I like the idea of Noel backing up Nurkic. If Toppin is that bad at D and he is our primary SF, then him and Simons would share court time (plus Lillard) and that is a recipe for disaster.

Obi's not bad, but he's not a significant positive either...plus he shouldn't primarily be a 3. He can play some Jumbo-3 next to Randle and a 5, but most of his minutes should come at the 4.

That’s even worse, because we need a starting 3, not a backup 4.

[cgf]

Then I’m not so sure about this trade. Portland needs to upgrade their wing defense, not downgrade it. Maybe if Portland got a better starting level defender at SF instead, because I like the idea of Noel backing up Nurkic. If Toppin is that bad at D and he is our primary SF, then him and Simons would share court time (plus Lillard) and that is a recipe for disaster.

Obi's not bad, but he's not a significant positive either...plus he shouldn't primarily be a 3. He can play some Jumbo-3 next to Randle and a 5, but most of his minutes should come at the 4.

That’s even worse, because we need a starting 3, not a backup 4.

Yeah don't think this really works for anyone other than Detroit.

[Village Idiot]

Then I’m not so sure about this trade. Portland needs to upgrade their wing defense, not downgrade it. Maybe if Portland got a better starting level defender at SF instead, because I like the idea of Noel backing up Nurkic. If Toppin is that bad at D and he is our primary SF, then him and Simons would share court time (plus Lillard) and that is a recipe for disaster.

Obi's not bad, but he's not a significant positive either...plus he shouldn't primarily be a 3. He can play some Jumbo-3 next to Randle and a 5, but most of his minutes should come at the 4.

That’s even worse, because we need a starting 3, not a backup 4.

My thinking was that Grant would start at SF and Toppin at PF with Noel also getting run at the 4. Grant is such a sub-par rebounder but great perimeter defender that I don't see any issue with him play SF.

[Laimbeer]

Too much for Bogs.

[Myth]

Obi's not bad, but he's not a significant positive either...plus he shouldn't primarily be a 3. He can play some Jumbo-3 next to Randle and a 5, but most of his minutes should come at the 4.

That’s even worse, because we need a starting 3, not a backup 4.

My thinking was that Grant would start at SF and Toppin at PF with Noel also getting run at the 4. Grant is such a sub-par rebounder but great perimeter defender that I don't see any issue with him play SF.

Sounds like a lot of crossing fingers that people out of position will work. From my understanding, Grant has been more effective when playing PF in the past, even though he is not a strong rebounder. Noel has extremely rarely played the 4, and if Toppin and Noel are playing 4, how much time does Grant get at the position he is most effective. I don't think these incoming guys are worthy of such position bumps. If we brought in a stud like Siakam, that would be different.

[dakomish23]

If you saw Obi close out the season you’d wonder why the Knicks don’t use him more than just sticking him in the corner for 15 MPG. He can get a lot of buckets very quickly.

His last 11 games (started 10 of them)
29.7 MPG
19.1 PPG 5.5 RPG 2.4 APG
58.4 on 12.5 FGA
44.1 on 5.4 3PA
80.0 on 2.7 FTA

I think and a lot of Knicks fan think if given the opportunity he can do similar things in a different place. Randle having a big year all but sealed his fate even though we are absolutely desperate for bench help

Thibs had no problem giving obi 20mpg or more when Toppin was playing well enough to warrant them. He just cooled off and got hurt

That’s not true. His minutes were inconsistent his entire tenure. He’s never even averaged 20 MPG

[cgf]

If you saw Obi close out the season you’d wonder why the Knicks don’t use him more than just sticking him in the corner for 15 MPG. He can get a lot of buckets very quickly.

His last 11 games (started 10 of them)
29.7 MPG
19.1 PPG 5.5 RPG 2.4 APG
58.4 on 12.5 FGA
44.1 on 5.4 3PA
80.0 on 2.7 FTA

I think and a lot of Knicks fan think if given the opportunity he can do similar things in a different place. Randle having a big year all but sealed his fate even though we are absolutely desperate for bench help

Thibs had no problem giving obi 20mpg or more when Toppin was playing well enough to warrant them. He just cooled off and got hurt

That’s not true. His minutes were inconsistent his entire tenure. He’s never even averaged 20 MPG

He averaged 20mpg for most of november, only dipping below that in the last week of the month, and his effectiveness dipped before his PT.

Yes, his minutes have varied because Thibs doesn't leave the kid out there to get picked on when he's struggling, but that'll happen with raw & inconsistent prospects

[Goldbum]

I think Grant and Toppin could work together as combo forwards. I like Noel as a switchable guy off the bench. Honestly not bad for Portland...but I'm much more willing to move Hart than the majority of Blazer fans.

[WargamesX]

Detroit trades:

Bogdanovic
Noel

Detroit receives:

Dallas 1st (11-30)
Detroit 1st returned
Rose (team option for 2023-24)
Cam Reddish
Keon Johnson

The Pistons get their pick back which gives them more flexibility going forward. They also get the Mavs pick and two youngsters worth kicking the tires on.

New York trades:

Dallas 1st (11-30)
Detroit 1st returned
Obi Toppin
Rose
Cam Reddish

New York receives:

Bogdanovic
Josh Hart

The Knicks getting a much needed massive upgrade their depth adding two guys who can play a big role in expanding their core from 6 to 8 guys. Bogdanovic is having a career year while Josh Hart is the consummate 3 and D Thibs player who gives 100% every posession on both ends.

Portland trades:

Josh Hart
Keon Johnson

Portland receives:

Nerlens Noel
Obi Toppin

Portland gets a much needed size increase and more defensively versatility. With GP2 finally playing and Sharpe exceeding expectations this clears up the back-court jam. Noel gives the Blazers a potentially different look at center which is much need in certain match-ups. Toppin gets a new chance at finding his spot in the league.

Yea....this is an easy no for the Knicks. They don't get anywhere near the value they'd need back to justify this deal.

The Knicks are not a win now team. This trade is giving up way to much to go nowhere