How far does Jokic have to take the Nuggets this season?

[Dutchball97]

Jokic is the reigning back to back MVP and currently in the lead to make it 3 in a row but there are quite a few people who are reluctant to name him as the best player in the league due to a relative lack of play-off success. In the past he's had the excuse of bad teammates but this time around the Nuggets look strong. So how far does Jokic have to take the Nuggets for you to see him as the best player in the league?

[DonaldSanders]

It mostly depends on how he plays, but it's hard to feel he is the best player if he can't take a top 3 seeded squad to the WCF.

[mademan]

Ultimately, he's a possible 3 time MVP which is reserved for top 10 All-Time guys. Every year he has a top seeded team should be a year he's expected to play in the finals.

[dockingsched]

With gsw struggling, I don’t really see what the excuse would be if they don’t at least make the finals.

At some point he should start to be held to the same standard that every elite player has been held to and criticized for not meeting. Jokic seems to be the only player, at this elite of a level, to never get held to that same standard that other guys get killed for.

[Optms]

Finals. The team is healthy. No more excuses.

[picko]

The West is wide open and if Jokic is as good as the advanced metrics say then he should be able to get them to the finals.

Subject to injuries, anything less would be viewed as a failure.

[MrGoat]

Ring or bust. He has some help this year. His net rating when Murray or Gordon is on the court are amazing. Without them, not as much.

He can actually get away with only taking 15 shot attempts and cherry picking the efficient ones for himself because he actually does have some help

[BelgradeNugget]

With gsw struggling, I don’t really see what the excuse would be if they don’t at least make the finals.

At some point he should start to be held to the same standard that every elite player has been held to and criticized for not meeting. Jokic seems to be the only player, at this elite of a level, to never get held to that same standard that other guys get killed for.

What standard?

[BelgradeNugget]

Ring or bust. He has some help this year. His net rating when Murray or Gordon is on the court are amazing. Without them, not as much.

He can actually get away with only taking 15 shot attempts and cherry picking the efficient ones for himself because he actually does have some help

He is taking 15 shot attempts because he is at the same time creating efficient ones for his teammates. That is a point of playmaking. To create the best shots for himself and teammates. That is why AG/KCP/Brown also have carrier years in TS%. That is why he is the best playmaker/offensive player in the game. Oh, yes Denver has the best OFFRTG in NBA, all without him dominating the ball.

[Roger Murdock]

You hold him to the standard by how he plays not by the standards of how far the team goes



This stuff is so stupid. Jokic has been ridiculously good in every playoff series he’s ever been a part of. Arguably the best player on the court in every series.

Yeah he’s lost some in years when his team had horrible support. He’s never lost a series that he should have clearly won. The Warriors last year and the Suns 2 years ago were boarderine unwinnable given how well those teams weee playing and how depleated the Nuggets were


LeBron James has played for my team 11 seasons and some of his best years he didn’t make the finals. 2018 was the most insane **** I’ve ever seen and he got swept. But he won in 2016 because the supporting cast played well enough.

2012/13/16/20 weren’t LeBrons best years, they were his teammates best years.

Jokic isn’t in the Harden boat where he stinks in the playoffs and has meltdowns. That would be different. He’s consistently amazing in the playoffs.


If Jokic is amazing and they win the title I’ll treat him about the same as he’s amazing and they fall a little short.

[Shock Defeat]

If the Nuggets are healthy it's finals or bust.

[_qubik]

Dont let the roster fool you. I'm not even one of Jokic supporters. But their second best player arent that great. Denver goes, where Jokic can get MPJ, was never a good/great player, Murray went supernova is some playoffs, but is a totally different player on the regular season, can he turn the switch every postseason ? Denver wont be in the finals, conference finals is their upside for me, and only because of Jokic, he spoon feeds guys

[Duke4life831]

I mean he is already the best player in the world. Really the only guy in the conversation with him is Giannis and I dont think Giannis has the same consistency that Jokic has.

With that said, how far does he need to go this year? I think that really all depends on his teammates.

And I want to be clear, this isnt me coming up with a way where Jokic cant lose. Not saying no matter what we just blame his teammates. But depending on how well his teammates play should determine a lot of this. Again he still doesnt have a legit #2 to rely on. People say Murray lately has looked like his old self. Murray's last 20 games, 19/4/6 on 57 TS% (exact league average efficiency). Thats below average numbers for a #2 in today's NBA and definitely on the lower end when compared to the other contenders.

So with that said, I think as long as the majority of his teammates just play solid (level theyre currently playing at), I think he needs to make it out of the Western Conference. The West is pretty weak this year, while ya he doesnt have a legit #2, he definitely doesnt have a bad roster around him. If they play up to the level they're playing at, he should be able to do enough to beat the West.

I dont know, I view this Nuggets team pretty similar to Dirk's 2011 team. No legit #2, but a very well constructed roster. And chances are if Jokic gets out of the West, he's going to face a hell of a team in the East. But ya with that said, I honestly wouldnt be shocked if say for example Gordon plays out of his role and is dumb and takes a lot of 3s and shoots horribly. Wouldnt be shocked if Murray is super inconsistent and wouldnt be shocked if MPJ's defense reverts back to his old defense and he looks horrible. If that happens, hard to blame him if he gets bounced in the WCF or 2nd round. No matter what he needs to at least get to the 2nd round. Also if Murray does go bubble Murray again, anything short of a championship will be a negative.

[Optms]

You hold him to the standard by how he plays not by the standards of how far the team goes



This stuff is so stupid. Jokic has been ridiculously good in every playoff series he’s ever been a part of. Arguably the best player on the court in every series.

Yeah he’s lost some in years when his team had horrible support. He’s never lost a series that he should have clearly won. The Warriors last year and the Suns 2 years ago were boarderine unwinnable given how well those teams weee playing and how depleated the Nuggets were


LeBron James has played for my team 11 seasons and some of his best years he didn’t make the finals. 2018 was the most insane **** I’ve ever seen and he got swept. But he won in 2016 because the supporting cast played well enough.

2012/13/16/20 weren’t LeBrons best years, they were his teammates best years.

Jokic isn’t in the Harden boat where he stinks in the playoffs and has meltdowns. That would be different. He’s consistently amazing in the playoffs.


If Jokic is amazing and they win the title I’ll treat him about the same as he’s amazing and they fall a little short.

Not stupid at all. We hold him to the same standards we hold all the greats who have the same hardware he has. MVPs.

Before Lebron broke out of the east, he also played great but still got criticism. It's time for Jokic to finally get out of the West. There is no reason the Nuggets should be content with another 2nd round exit.

[MarcusBrody]

Dont let the roster fool you. I'm not even one of Jokic supporters. But their second best player arent that great. Denver goes, where Jokic can get MPJ, was never a good/great player, Murray went supernova is some playoffs, but is a totally different player on the regular season, can he turn the switch every postseason ? Denver wont be in the finals, conference finals is their upside for me, and only because of Jokic, he spoon feeds guys

I think that Jamal Murray would probably the worst 2nd best player on a Final's team since 2011 (depending on whether you think he's better than Terry/Tyson Chandler, I think he's better than Terry, but it's harder to compare with Chandler as they impact the game on different sides of the ball). In the past 20 years, there have probably been less than 5 teams with a weaker second option.

That being said, I'm not even sure he's the Nuggets second best player. He's the "second option" but Aaron Gordon and MPJ are good players, as is KCP, though probably another step down, and they all fit well with Jokic and the other players. So while I agree that the Nuggets don't have a standard Finals-level second option (assuming Murray doesn't really turn it on as he continues to recover), I do think that they have a very good team 1-5 and given how open things seem this year, I wouldn't be shocked to see them in the Finals at all.

[nomansland]

It's not unreasonable to say that he's the been the best player in the league this season, especially given the injuries to some other players. But for that to stick and for all of his detractors to finally STFU, the Nuggets will have to win a championship.

Even if that happens there will be clowns not giving him his due. Whatever, I don't think he really cares anyway.

[DonaldSanders]

I mean he is already the best player in the world. Really the only guy in the conversation with him is Giannis and I dont think Giannis has the same consistency that Jokic has.

I have a tough time saying this about anyone that hasn't exploded in the postseason given how different the game is played/officiated in the postseason. He hasn't had some huge post season drop off, but he still has never hard carried a team like say Steve Nash did with the SSOL Suns taking them to the WCF twice, once with an absurdly weak squad (the year Amare was out).

I don't require rings but I think just asking him to make it to the 2nd round is a low bar for "best player". At some point post season success has to matter in terms of overall value. If his team is healthy, they need to make the WCF in my book. Beating a 7th or 8th seed as a top seeded squad won't be enough for me. It's not like he has a weak team, his squad is #1 in the West and has the 2nd best win percentage in the league right now.

Stuff happens, like say if his teammates all completely fail him... I'll look at the whole picture and leave him in the top tier of players, but *the best*, at least to me (and we all have different criteria) includes being able to take a #1/#2 team to the Conference Finals as a true carry. He's made it to the CF once with Murray, but that included Murray carrying just as much as he did and Davis had the better series. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I need to see it for him to be the #1 guy in the league like LeBron, Steph, Giannis all have.

At the same time, this could be *his* year where he puts it all together with an ATG performance and a chip.

[BigGargamel]

A second round exit this year would be an absolute disaster. Why would they be content with that? Everything is setting up for Denver to make a very deep run.

That being said, I am not in the camp that rings are the end all be all. It takes so much to win championships. He's already been to the WCF once. Are people expecting a one man show to beat the last two teams to make the NBA Finals? Not everything is so simple.

Will he be a failure if Denver loses to Memphis in the WCF? JJJ will probably guard him for possibly seven games, Ja Morant will probably carve up whoever is unlucky enough to guard him.

[Beethoven]

The dude has the least critical fan base.

[LessEyeTest]

I genuinely wonder if people even watch the Nuggets games before typing nonsense?

Last season, they lost in 5 to GSW. Take a look at this roster and tell me exactly what he was supposed to do with them?
https://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/den/season/2022/seasontype/3

Jokic averaged 31/13/6 and some of the biggest contributors to that team are either not in the NBA (Demarcus Cousins) or complete scrubs on other teams (Will Barton, Austin Rivers). Jokic took that team as far as is humanly possible, he didn't underachieve whatsoever. That team would fight for all-time worst record without him...

Jokic doesn't have to win a title to have a successful season. Remember, he has never played with all star in his entire career. He's essentially a one man team dragging carcasses and journeymen into the playoffs. We have guys like Joel Embiid playing with multiple all-stars and accomplished nothing more. (Only reason I bring that up is the couple 76ers posters in here jumping like hyenas to bash Jokic)

Give Jokic a borderline all-star like Paul George and he'd run through the league. FACTS.