2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[Qwigglez]

I think Suns will ultimately make a deal with the Jazz and get Vanderbilt and Beasley. Though I am hoping Suns get Clarkson instead of Beasley. I also wouldn't mind Olynyk if we could swing that kind of package but I doubt it. I think Hawks will regrettably end up deciding on keeping Collins since they are currently on a 5 game win streak and face the Hornets tonight.

Hornets opening up trade talks for Hayward, Rozier, and Oubre is more interesting now that the Lakers are rumored to stand pat at the deadline. I'm unsure who else has the wasted salary to match for Hayward while improving their team.

This would be the most ideal trade I would prefer:

Spoiler:

Suns get -
Jordan Clarkson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Kelly Olynyk

Heat get -
Jae Crowder
Landry Shamet

Jazz get -
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Heat 2023 1st (1-18 protected)

I know many would disagree with the valuation that the Heat are getting while giving up their pick and think they'd want more for it. However, they desperately need a PF and Crowder is the easiest plug and play player in the league, and they get him while dumping Duncan Robinson and they get Shamet who is fairly similar to Robinson except at half the cost. Plug Shamet into Robinson's role on the Heat and he suddenly looks a lot better too then the way Monty Williams sets up Shamet's shots.

I think many folks feel Ainge doesn't want to take on long term money in a contract like Duncan Robinson, and I agree that holds merit for most circumstances. However, with the way the Jazz are currently constructed all of their contracts essentially expire after next season and I don't think Ainge wants to give a majority of those guys a new contract. Duncan Robinson is locked in to his deal and every team has to reach a salary cap floor anyway, plus he doesn't have any upside as a player but is a good role model off the court for teammates. This is the kind of 4d chess that Ainge is playing pretending to bite the sacrificial bullet in tying up long term salary in order to obtain a pick. Plus, in two years when the Jazz are ready to compete, Robinson's contract will be a great offering chip as an expiring contract.

Also, I know it's a stretch for the Suns to get all 3 of those players from the Jazz but the Jazz also want to open up more playing time for Walker Kessler, who has started the last 6 games for the Jazz averaging 11.5 points and 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks in 29 minutes a game. He's only starting because Oly is injured.

This is the deal I think would most likely happen
Suns get -

Spoiler:

Malik Beasley
Jarred Vanderbilt

Jazz get -
Grayson Allen
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Blazers 2024 2nd round pick
Pacers 2025 2nd round pick

Bucks get -
Jae Crowder

[Ghost of Kleine]

Via Marc Stein

In 2019, the Bucks sent four second-round picks to the New Orleans Pelicans for Nikola Mirotic.

Milwaukee is trying a similar tactic now, as they've offered four second-round picks to the Houston Rockets for Eric Gordon. The Bucks have eight second-round picks to offer in trades over the next seven years.

Grayson Allen
Ibaka

Hard to get the numbers to match

Why? A Crowder for Allen/ Ibaka deal has a salary gap of only 10.1 (Ibaka/Allen) the Suns receive to 10.3 (Crowder) the Bucks receive. So only around a $200,000 gap. The value is offset by the 2 nds (23' via CLE or GS) and the 24' 2nd (Portland).

** I would follow this trade up with a Rozier trade!
Shamet/Saric/Payne/ PHX future (lottery protected 1st) for Rozier/ Kai Jones (fellow Bahamian Athletic, long rim runner shot blocker prospect. Would only be asked to primarily be a rim running, rebounding, shot blocking (weakside recovery) post presence next to Ayton? (Can be mentored by Ibaka) too! Kai has struggled significantly in the hornets system/playing limited minutes. But the tools, versatility, elite athleticism and two-way potential is still there for Kai as illustrated below:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I'm only asking people to take a look at this G league game clip because it shows his developing bal handling ability and developing iso creation potential which is really impressive and underrated for an athletically explosive, long 6'11 forward. He's a low risk high upside swing in the trade! We could develop him in the G league for another season then possibly eventually bring him in to replace Ibaka as a versatile two way 4/5 with small ball 5 and initiator potential?

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

(also to be mentored by Ibaka perhaps)??

[bwgood77]

Now that there’s some prospect of a meaningful deal before the deadline, is there any interest in testing the Bulls’ asking price on LaVine (offering CamJo/picks/swaps/filler)? He may be the best player currently up for grabs, and could boost the offence both converting feeds from CP3 and co-creating shots in a backcourt with Book.

I could see some saying no given he will make upwards of $40 million next year and beyond, but for me it would depend on asking price and if the owner wouldn't mind going deep into the tax.

His defense is bad too but so is Paul's at this point.

That would be the 2nd star everyone would want. You can't be too picky/choosy with stars.

People argue he has regressed, an maybe he has a bit, but he's still at 24/4/4, shooting over 38% from 3 with a 59% TS%

His efficiency is very similar to Books...better from 3 and their TS% is identical (58.4% to 58.5%)

He also gets to the rim a lot which would further cave the defense to open up shooters and gets to the line 5x a game.

The question is what would it take. If they just want expirings and picks, that is a guy it's worth it given you won't likely find a star often and it would give us some of those things we are looking for:

Athleticism, second star, more free throws, another guy who can create, etc. He would fit in perfect with the team where each of the players are in a very high percentile and play great with a fast pace.

[BobbieL]

Via Marc Stein

Grayson Allen
Ibaka

Hard to get the numbers to match

Why? A Crowder for Allen/ Ibaka deal has a salary gap of only 10.1 (Ibaka/Allen) the Suns receive to 10.3 (Crowder) the Bucks receive. So only around a $200,000 gap. The value is offset by the 2 nds (23' via CLE or GS) and the 24' 2nd (Portland).

** I would follow this trade up with a Rozier trade!
Shamet/Saric/Payne/ PHX future (lottery protected 1st) for Rozier/ Kai Jones (fellow Bahamian Athletic, long rim runner shot blocker prospect. Would only be asked to primarily be a rim running, rebounding, shot blocking (weakside recovery) post presence next to Ayton? (Can be mentored by Ibaka) too! Kai has struggled significantly in the hornets system/playing limited minutes. But the tools, versatility, elite athleticism and two-way potential is still there for Kai as illustrated below:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I'm only asking people to take a look at this G league game clip because it shows his developing bal handling ability and developing iso creation potential which is really impressive and underrated for an athletically explosive, long 6'11 forward. He's a low risk high upside swing in the trade! We could develop him in the G league for another season then possibly eventually bring him in to replace Ibaka as a versatile two way 4/5 with small ball 5 and initiator potential?

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

(also to be mentored by Ibaka perhaps)??

I mean for the Rockets and Bucks - what salaries could the Bucks send to get for Gordon. Its pretty difficult

As for the note above about the Hornets: Hayward, Rozier and Oubre. Now Oubre is expiring. So whatever

But the Suns do have the contracts to get both Hayward and Rozier. Hayward sign for one more year at 30m, Rozier many more years.

If the Hornets would take Paul and Shamet - the deal could be something like this

Paul (they buy out), Crowder (they buy out), Saric, Shamet and Payne. Hornets take on 28m to not spend over $100m
for Oubre, Rozier and Hayward

Hornets would save some decent cash - if that is there goal


Now the BWG trade for Lavine -- would they take Cam Johnson?

[bwgood77]

I mentioned previously that Caleb Martin trade a lot and if that is a standing offer, it is probably about as good as we get.

He is on a great contract similar to Payne...making less than $7 million next year and a little over that the following year (player option).

I thought he might be off limits.

He is also still 27.

I do like the Mills/TJ one. TJ is the better scorer, but we know is injury prone and was out a long time. Martin's size is not great. Even though he has played some PF he is only 6'5 but I imagine you could just kind of slot him into our lineup with the starters with guys out and not really worry about positions as Booker/Bridges/Cam/Martin or sub in Payne/Paul for Cam....or for Book for awhile.

It's a decent return for Crowder..about as good as you can expect.

Then Dedmon is not guaranteed next year.

For cap purposes and saving tax, it is a solid contract for a solid rotation player who comes from solid coaching.

[bwgood77]

Grayson Allen
Ibaka

Hard to get the numbers to match

Why? A Crowder for Allen/ Ibaka deal has a salary gap of only 10.1 (Ibaka/Allen) the Suns receive to 10.3 (Crowder) the Bucks receive. So only around a $200,000 gap. The value is offset by the 2 nds (23' via CLE or GS) and the 24' 2nd (Portland).

** I would follow this trade up with a Rozier trade!
Shamet/Saric/Payne/ PHX future (lottery protected 1st) for Rozier/ Kai Jones (fellow Bahamian Athletic, long rim runner shot blocker prospect. Would only be asked to primarily be a rim running, rebounding, shot blocking (weakside recovery) post presence next to Ayton? (Can be mentored by Ibaka) too! Kai has struggled significantly in the hornets system/playing limited minutes. But the tools, versatility, elite athleticism and two-way potential is still there for Kai as illustrated below:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I'm only asking people to take a look at this G league game clip because it shows his developing bal handling ability and developing iso creation potential which is really impressive and underrated for an athletically explosive, long 6'11 forward. He's a low risk high upside swing in the trade! We could develop him in the G league for another season then possibly eventually bring him in to replace Ibaka as a versatile two way 4/5 with small ball 5 and initiator potential?

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

(also to be mentored by Ibaka perhaps)??

I mean for the Rockets and Bucks - what salaries could the Bucks send to get for Gordon. Its pretty difficult

As for the note above about the Hornets: Hayward, Rozier and Oubre. Now Oubre is expiring. So whatever

But the Suns do have the contracts to get both Hayward and Rozier. Hayward sign for one more year at 30m, Rozier many more years.

If the Hornets would take Paul and Shamet - the deal could be something like this

Paul (they buy out), Crowder (they buy out), Saric, Shamet and Payne. Hornets take on 28m to not spend over $100m
for Oubre, Rozier and Hayward

Hornets would save some decent cash - if that is there goal


Now the BWG trade for Lavine -- would they take Cam Johnson?

Maybe, but it may not be enough unless they want to tank. 3 picks, Cam? I don't think you can trade Bridges. I would hate to lose Cam but having a great game here and there but being injured so much...I don't trust it.

LaVine, despite the defense and salary IS that star.....people are overpaid...and offensively, he has put up #s similar to Book for a few years (quite a bit better one of the recent years). Is he as clutch? No...BUT, everyone talks about athleticism, getting to the line, another creator, etc.

He would be very exciting to watch..with that athleticsm we don't see..a dunk champion and all that. Put him on a team like ours

[BobbieL]

Why? A Crowder for Allen/ Ibaka deal has a salary gap of only 10.1 (Ibaka/Allen) the Suns receive to 10.3 (Crowder) the Bucks receive. So only around a $200,000 gap. The value is offset by the 2 nds (23' via CLE or GS) and the 24' 2nd (Portland).

** I would follow this trade up with a Rozier trade!
Shamet/Saric/Payne/ PHX future (lottery protected 1st) for Rozier/ Kai Jones (fellow Bahamian Athletic, long rim runner shot blocker prospect. Would only be asked to primarily be a rim running, rebounding, shot blocking (weakside recovery) post presence next to Ayton? (Can be mentored by Ibaka) too! Kai has struggled significantly in the hornets system/playing limited minutes. But the tools, versatility, elite athleticism and two-way potential is still there for Kai as illustrated below:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I'm only asking people to take a look at this G league game clip because it shows his developing bal handling ability and developing iso creation potential which is really impressive and underrated for an athletically explosive, long 6'11 forward. He's a low risk high upside swing in the trade! We could develop him in the G league for another season then possibly eventually bring him in to replace Ibaka as a versatile two way 4/5 with small ball 5 and initiator potential?

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

(also to be mentored by Ibaka perhaps)??

I mean for the Rockets and Bucks - what salaries could the Bucks send to get for Gordon. Its pretty difficult

As for the note above about the Hornets: Hayward, Rozier and Oubre. Now Oubre is expiring. So whatever

But the Suns do have the contracts to get both Hayward and Rozier. Hayward sign for one more year at 30m, Rozier many more years.

If the Hornets would take Paul and Shamet - the deal could be something like this

Paul (they buy out), Crowder (they buy out), Saric, Shamet and Payne. Hornets take on 28m to not spend over $100m
for Oubre, Rozier and Hayward

Hornets would save some decent cash - if that is there goal


Now the BWG trade for Lavine -- would they take Cam Johnson?

Maybe, but it may not be enough unless they want to tank. 3 picks, Cam? I don't think you can trade Bridges. I would hate to lose Cam but having a great game here and there but being injured so much...I don't trust it.

LaVine, despite the defense and salary IS that star.....people are overpaid...and offensively, he has put up #s similar to Book for a few years (quite a bit better one of the recent years). Is he as clutch? No...BUT, everyone talks about athleticism, getting to the line, another creator, etc.

He would be very exciting to watch..with that athleticsm we don't see..a dunk champion and all that. Put him on a team like ours

its not my money - just need people to keep refinancing (so interest rates need to drop in a year so Ishbia can grow some outside revenue )

But Lavine would be awesome to get. Wonder if they would want Ayton. And if the Suns can get a guy like Zach L - forget my Rozier and Hayward type trade. Go for Lavine

[sunsbum]

I mean for the Rockets and Bucks - what salaries could the Bucks send to get for Gordon. Its pretty difficult

As for the note above about the Hornets: Hayward, Rozier and Oubre. Now Oubre is expiring. So whatever

But the Suns do have the contracts to get both Hayward and Rozier. Hayward sign for one more year at 30m, Rozier many more years.

If the Hornets would take Paul and Shamet - the deal could be something like this

Paul (they buy out), Crowder (they buy out), Saric, Shamet and Payne. Hornets take on 28m to not spend over $100m
for Oubre, Rozier and Hayward

Hornets would save some decent cash - if that is there goal


Now the BWG trade for Lavine -- would they take Cam Johnson?

Maybe, but it may not be enough unless they want to tank. 3 picks, Cam? I don't think you can trade Bridges. I would hate to lose Cam but having a great game here and there but being injured so much...I don't trust it.

LaVine, despite the defense and salary IS that star.....people are overpaid...and offensively, he has put up #s similar to Book for a few years (quite a bit better one of the recent years). Is he as clutch? No...BUT, everyone talks about athleticism, getting to the line, another creator, etc.

He would be very exciting to watch..with that athleticsm we don't see..a dunk champion and all that. Put him on a team like ours

its not my money - just need people to keep refinancing (so interest rates need to drop in a year so Ishbia can grow some outside revenue )

But Lavine would be awesome to get. Wonder if they would want Ayton

lavine feels like an unnecessary nba2k trade, like “we have 2 25pt SGs I’ll just slide Booker over to the 1” unfortunately real teams don’t work like that. I like the jazz trade as it brings some decent young players, would absolutely Love to get Olnyck (sp) he’s a tough smart vet that can score in a multitude of ways.

[BobbieL]

Maybe, but it may not be enough unless they want to tank. 3 picks, Cam? I don't think you can trade Bridges. I would hate to lose Cam but having a great game here and there but being injured so much...I don't trust it.

LaVine, despite the defense and salary IS that star.....people are overpaid...and offensively, he has put up #s similar to Book for a few years (quite a bit better one of the recent years). Is he as clutch? No...BUT, everyone talks about athleticism, getting to the line, another creator, etc.

He would be very exciting to watch..with that athleticsm we don't see..a dunk champion and all that. Put him on a team like ours

its not my money - just need people to keep refinancing (so interest rates need to drop in a year so Ishbia can grow some outside revenue )

But Lavine would be awesome to get. Wonder if they would want Ayton

lavine feels like an unnecessary nba2k trade, like “we have 2 25pt SGs I’ll just slide Booker over to the 1” unfortunately real teams don’t work like that. I like the jazz trade as it brings some decent young players, would absolutely Love to get Olnyck (sp) he’s a tough smart vet that can score in a multitude of ways.

The above trade is a good one for the suns wuth the jazz and Heat

[Ghost of Kleine]

I wonder what it would really take or how we could successfully do a trade for a Sexton/Vanderbilt combo or a Sexton/Vandy/Olynyk combo even?? Is there a mechanism/ path for that somehow??...............Anyone have any ideas?....................anyone?

[bwgood77]

Maybe, but it may not be enough unless they want to tank. 3 picks, Cam? I don't think you can trade Bridges. I would hate to lose Cam but having a great game here and there but being injured so much...I don't trust it.

LaVine, despite the defense and salary IS that star.....people are overpaid...and offensively, he has put up #s similar to Book for a few years (quite a bit better one of the recent years). Is he as clutch? No...BUT, everyone talks about athleticism, getting to the line, another creator, etc.

He would be very exciting to watch..with that athleticsm we don't see..a dunk champion and all that. Put him on a team like ours

its not my money - just need people to keep refinancing (so interest rates need to drop in a year so Ishbia can grow some outside revenue )

But Lavine would be awesome to get. Wonder if they would want Ayton

lavine feels like an unnecessary nba2k trade, like “we have 2 25pt SGs I’ll just slide Booker over to the 1” unfortunately real teams don’t work like that. I like the jazz trade as it brings some decent young players, would absolutely Love to get Olnyck (sp) he’s a tough smart vet that can score in a multitude of ways.

I get that....I originally thought no, but I think they would be a good pairing. Defense would suffer and the contract is big but people wanting that second star...they don't become available often so it might be worth going for it. People used to want to pair Booker and Beal. It's arguable who is better at this point, but LaVine has that athleticsm. Both can't play D, but put LaVine on someone already close to contending that's different than him being the main guy with ok role players and DeRozan would can't spread the floor. He'd be a better get than DeRozan for sure. He's better, younger and more athletic. If I recall correctly, he was also very disappointed when he got picked one spot before the Suns.

But it would depend on the cost. I'd want to keep the core but he's one of those guys I'd give up picks for if it was just that and expirings...and maybe Cam. Cam is great but can't stay healthy and LaVine is better.

[Blonde]

I have almost no interest in Oubre, Hayward, Gordon, or FVV.

Regarding Lavine, I mean yeah if he can be had without giving up major players then you just do it and worry about the fit later. Take the all star talent every time, it generally works itself out (unless you’re adding Gobert to KAT or something asinine like that).

[bwgood77]

I have almost no interest in Oubre, Hayward, Gordon, or FVV.

Regarding Lavine, I mean yeah if he can be had without giving up major players then you just do it and worry about the fit later. Take the all star talent every time, it generally works itself out (unless you’re adding Gobert to KAT or something asinine like that).

Yeah, if I knew Hayward would be healthy, MAYBE if cheap. FVV I thought so until I saw probable contract and TS% this year, but no.

People talk about Rozier who really is inefficient but wouldn't want LaVine?

Gordon no unless it was 2nds or something. No on Oubre. A team like GS let him go for a reason but he can thrive on a team like Charlotte. He might be ok off the bench but then he'd want a big contract again. I wouldn't give up much for him since he is UFA. We could give expiring and 2nd but he is an expiring, so would they be ok with just a second?

A playmaking wing or PF who can create a bit might end up being the best option...someone like Hayward but younger and less injury prone. Bogdan has declined too and is also injury prone.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I have almost no interest in Oubre, Hayward, Gordon, or FVV.

Regarding Lavine, I mean yeah if he can be had without giving up major players then you just do it and worry about the fit later. Take the all star talent every time, it generally works itself out (unless you’re adding Gobert to KAT or something asinine like that).

Yeah, if I knew Hayward would be healthy, MAYBE if cheap. FVV I thought so until I saw probable contract and TS% this year, but no.

People talk about Rozier who really is inefficient but wouldn't want LaVine?

Gordon no unless it was 2nds or something. No on Oubre. A team like GS let him go for a reason but he can thrive on a team like Charlotte. He might be ok off the bench but then he'd want a big contract again. I wouldn't give up much for him since he is UFA. We could give expiring and 2nd but he is an expiring, so would they be ok with just a second?

A playmaking wing or PF who can create a bit might end up being the best option...someone like Hayward but younger and less injury prone. Bogdan has declined too and is also injury prone.

And what about a Crowder/Saric/Payne/ Future (lottery protected) 1st/ future 2nd
for Conley/Vanderbilt?
OR
Crowder/Saric/Payne/Craig/ 2 lotto protected future 1sts/ future 2nd for Conley/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?
Next season, BOTH Paul and Conley, and even Olynyk have only partial guarantees that could be used in separate deals or combined possibly to a team looking for cap reduction?

Conley- Only 14 million Guaranteed.
Paul- Only 15 guaranteed.
Olynyk- Only 3 million guaranteed.

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton.
Conley/Shamet/Vanderbilt/ Olynyk/Biyombo.
Wash / Lee/ Okogie/ Ish/ Landale.

[KLEON]

Saben Lee is expected to get another 10-day contract from the Suns. He has played well, not afraid to take big shots or of the moments. Nothing new on the Crowder trade front.

Read on Twitter

Well deserved

[bwgood77]

I have almost no interest in Oubre, Hayward, Gordon, or FVV.

Regarding Lavine, I mean yeah if he can be had without giving up major players then you just do it and worry about the fit later. Take the all star talent every time, it generally works itself out (unless you’re adding Gobert to KAT or something asinine like that).

Yeah, if I knew Hayward would be healthy, MAYBE if cheap. FVV I thought so until I saw probable contract and TS% this year, but no.

People talk about Rozier who really is inefficient but wouldn't want LaVine?

Gordon no unless it was 2nds or something. No on Oubre. A team like GS let him go for a reason but he can thrive on a team like Charlotte. He might be ok off the bench but then he'd want a big contract again. I wouldn't give up much for him since he is UFA. We could give expiring and 2nd but he is an expiring, so would they be ok with just a second?

A playmaking wing or PF who can create a bit might end up being the best option...someone like Hayward but younger and less injury prone. Bogdan has declined too and is also injury prone.

And what about a Crowder/Saric/Payne/ Future (lottery protected) 1st/ future 2nd
for Conley/Vanderbilt?
OR
Crowder/Saric/Payne/Craig/ 2 lotto protected future 1sts/ future 2nd for Conley/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?
Next season, BOTH Paul and Conley, and even Olynyk have only partial guarantees that could be used in separate deals or combined possibly to a team looking for cap reduction?

Conley- Only 14 million Guaranteed.
Paul- Only 15 guaranteed.
Olynyk- Only 3 million guaranteed.

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton.
Conley/Shamet/Vanderbilt/ Olynyk/Biyombo.
Wash / Lee/ Okogie/ Ish/ Landale.

Why the heck would you give a 1st and Payne for Conley? Vanderbilt would be ok, but I still wouldn't give up a 1st and Payne for him.

Payne is better than Conley.

Conley sucks.

I guess I missed Olynyk.

If you can put Beasley instead of Conley I would maybe do a super heavily protected 1st that turns into 2 seconds but it would still be hard to give up Payne given we have no PG for the future.

I would give up Crowder to a 3rd team who maybe gives a pick to Utah, Craig and Saric and maybe a heavily protected first that turns into to seconds for Beasley, Olynyk and Vanderbilt.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Yeah, if I knew Hayward would be healthy, MAYBE if cheap. FVV I thought so until I saw probable contract and TS% this year, but no.

People talk about Rozier who really is inefficient but wouldn't want LaVine?

Gordon no unless it was 2nds or something. No on Oubre. A team like GS let him go for a reason but he can thrive on a team like Charlotte. He might be ok off the bench but then he'd want a big contract again. I wouldn't give up much for him since he is UFA. We could give expiring and 2nd but he is an expiring, so would they be ok with just a second?

A playmaking wing or PF who can create a bit might end up being the best option...someone like Hayward but younger and less injury prone. Bogdan has declined too and is also injury prone.

And what about a Crowder/Saric/Payne/ Future (lottery protected) 1st/ future 2nd
for Conley/Vanderbilt?
OR
Crowder/Saric/Payne/Craig/ 2 lotto protected future 1sts/ future 2nd for Conley/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?
Next season, BOTH Paul and Conley, and even Olynyk have only partial guarantees that could be used in separate deals or combined possibly to a team looking for cap reduction?

Conley- Only 14 million Guaranteed.
Paul- Only 15 guaranteed.
Olynyk- Only 3 million guaranteed.

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton.
Conley/Shamet/Vanderbilt/ Olynyk/Biyombo.
Wash / Lee/ Okogie/ Ish/ Landale.

Why the heck would you give a 1st and Payne for Conley? Vanderbilt would be ok, but I still wouldn't give up a 1st and Payne for him.

Payne is better than Conley.

Conley sucks.

I guess I missed Olynyk.

If you can put Beasley instead of Conley I would maybe do a super heavily protected 1st that turns into 2 seconds but it would still be hard to give up Payne given we have no PG for the future.

I would give up Crowder to a 3rd team who maybe gives a pick to Utah, Craig and Saric and maybe a heavily protected first that turns into to seconds for Beasley, Olynyk and Vanderbilt.

The 1st isn't for Conley man! It's for Olynyk. I honestly think Conley isn't worth a 1st ( maybe a conditional 2nd and equivalent salary. And I only put Payne in for salary filler to get within the 6 million gap and because I don't see them wanting Shamet with already having both Clarkson and Beasley and I really don't want to give up Craig with his positional rebounding and energy he's bringing. But then again IF were getting V8 back, I guess it wouldn't ultimately matter switching Payne out with Craig.

As for Conley, he's not really a starter either at this point, and he's overpaid, and it looks worse than it is due to his current slump. but I don't think you can say he really sucks when even in a slump he's still putting up: 10/ 7 and in contrast to Payne, his career numbers have clearly been better than Paynes. Anyways, Conley isn't honestly high up on my priorities list ( as listed in a previous post) that would be Russell ( 1st) and then Rozier ( 2nd). Also why couldn't we send out either the Paul or Conley contract ( or both possibly) in a trade for a guard? Also there are alot of great guards even into the 2nd of this draft. You could still have Jalen Hood Schifino, Reece Beekman, Mike Myles, Taran Armstrong, Javion Gortman, Nolan Hickman, Jamal Shead, Jeremy Roach. Not to mention what you were talking about earlier in versatile wing / forwards with playmaking ability too:
Baba Miller, Siddy Cissoko, Emmanuel Akot, Drew Peterson is amazing for a 6'9 playmaking " Do it all" wing/ forward. Matthew Mayer is pretty capable too. But we'd have options.

Ultimately, taking Conley back is basically a strong sweetener in the deal for Ainge because he's getting off that money next year. I'd be willing to do this in the deal to persuade him (in terms of value swing) to finally give up Vandy whom I really covet over the other two in the trade anyhow. I'd love to find out how much Ainge would want for a Sexton/ Vanderbilt combo??

Lastly for us, I'm not overtly concerned with Conley's contract as he ( under the same premise as mentioned with Paul) has a partial guarantee and can be moved in a deal next season to a team that wants to clear cap from a bigger contract. I still would believe that Russell would provide the greatest value to us out of the Russell/ Rozier/ Van Vleet due to age, size, scoring AND playmaking skillset and his connection to Booker. I believe we could resign him for less anyways due to him wanting to stay here and play alongside Booker and possibly compete!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Also IF we traded for Russell at the deadline, wouldn't we also get his full bird rights since he has three seasons with Minnesota?? So we could pay him up to 175% of his 31 million (not that we'd want to of course) and I do think he'd resign for less to not only play here but to play with Book and have a more legitimate chance to compete.

[Sunlight]

At least FFR for Josh Okogie and Bismack like Ainge is looking for M.Beasley and Vanderbilt.

[SkyBill40]

Also IF we traded for Russell at the deadline, wouldn't we also get his full bird rights since he has three seasons with Minnesota?? So we could pay him up to 175% of his 31 million (not that we'd want to of course) and I do think he'd resign for less to not only play here but to play with Book and have a more legitimate chance to compete.

But would we really want Russell? He's not that great but I guess he could play the point in place of Paul once he's gone. I just don't want to see us overreach and get burned by sacrificing FRP's that we're going to need for more than just bargaining chips.

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