2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[BobbieL]

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I'll be happy to give them Shamet for Allen and Ibaka!

I might do that deal too

[bwgood77]

I think Suns will ultimately make a deal with the Jazz and get Vanderbilt and Beasley. Though I am hoping Suns get Clarkson instead of Beasley. I also wouldn't mind Olynyk if we could swing that kind of package but I doubt it. I think Hawks will regrettably end up deciding on keeping Collins since they are currently on a 5 game win streak and face the Hornets tonight.

Hornets opening up trade talks for Hayward, Rozier, and Oubre is more interesting now that the Lakers are rumored to stand pat at the deadline. I'm unsure who else has the wasted salary to match for Hayward while improving their team.

This would be the most ideal trade I would prefer:

Spoiler:

Suns get -
Jordan Clarkson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Kelly Olynyk

Heat get -
Jae Crowder
Landry Shamet

Jazz get -
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Heat 2023 1st (1-18 protected)

I know many would disagree with the valuation that the Heat are getting while giving up their pick and think they'd want more for it. However, they desperately need a PF and Crowder is the easiest plug and play player in the league, and they get him while dumping Duncan Robinson and they get Shamet who is fairly similar to Robinson except at half the cost. Plug Shamet into Robinson's role on the Heat and he suddenly looks a lot better too then the way Monty Williams sets up Shamet's shots.

I think many folks feel Ainge doesn't want to take on long term money in a contract like Duncan Robinson, and I agree that holds merit for most circumstances. However, with the way the Jazz are currently constructed all of their contracts essentially expire after next season and I don't think Ainge wants to give a majority of those guys a new contract. Duncan Robinson is locked in to his deal and every team has to reach a salary cap floor anyway, plus he doesn't have any upside as a player but is a good role model off the court for teammates. This is the kind of 4d chess that Ainge is playing pretending to bite the sacrificial bullet in tying up long term salary in order to obtain a pick. Plus, in two years when the Jazz are ready to compete, Robinson's contract will be a great offering chip as an expiring contract.

Also, I know it's a stretch for the Suns to get all 3 of those players from the Jazz but the Jazz also want to open up more playing time for Walker Kessler, who has started the last 6 games for the Jazz averaging 11.5 points and 11.7 rebounds and 2.5 blocks in 29 minutes a game. He's only starting because Oly is injured.

This is the deal I think would most likely happen
Suns get -

Spoiler:

Malik Beasley
Jarred Vanderbilt

Jazz get -
Grayson Allen
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st (1-13 protected)
Blazers 2024 2nd round pick
Pacers 2025 2nd round pick

Bucks get -
Jae Crowder

I like all the players involved in a trade with the Jazz. I think that is one way for us to go. I really like the idea of Kuzma to be in a rotation with Cam Johnson and Mikal. That is where we need to spend our money. That is the new NBA. I am not convinced on Rozier or FVV.

However, if we get Beasley and Vanderbilt we fill two areas of need, and they probably would not break the bank going forward. We have plenty of quality guards, they just all seem to be hurt I just cannot imagine some mega deal going down until this summer at the earliest

I would like to get Vanderbilt because he fits really well and we don't have any player like him on our roster. Strong rebounder, versatile defender and he can handle and pass a bit on offense.

BUT I don't like Beasley because he is just a catch -and-shot SG with very low basketball IQ who can make some big mistakes on a playoff game.

With Damion Lee and Cam Johnson already on our roster I would prefer another type of player for that salary. Someone that can create or at least handle and dribble well enough.

At PG/SG I don't want any low IQ basketball player...that's why I would avoid players like D'Angelo Russell, Coby White or Malik Beasley.

All I've heard about Clarkson is that the Jazz owner loves him and he is the one vet they'd like to keep. I don't care too much about Malik Beasley but think he's better than Shamet, though maybe not Lee..it's just that we have so many guard injuries..to all 4 of our top guards.

Olynyk and Vanderbilt are the main two guys I would want, but I do think we need a guard...still need to get a PG...maybe we could get a ready made guard in the draft, like someone like Haliburton.

[Qwigglez]

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First big trade? And no Olynyk or Beasley for us??

Interesting. It's almost as if I alluded to the idea that Ainge is willing to take on long term money in order to get a 1st round pick and in this case trying to get a young prospect in Jovic. Like I mentioned, Ainge has a ton of expiring contracts next offseason and when prompted those guys will be looking for new deals that would extend beyond what Duncan Robinson's contract length would go to. So Ainge wouldn't be upset at all when he finds guys who's contract is within the scope of his ideal timeline for the team.

[lilfishi22]

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Remember not too long ago when we were talking about targeting a shot blocking/rebounding 4/5 compliment next to Ayton to allow him to roam more effectively on/around the perimeter? That should still be our priority at the 4.

I don't recall an exact graph but I do remember the last couple of seasons, DA was always up there as one of the top rim protectors in terms of defensive field goal %. THe guy was active around the rim, he rotated like an elite defender and was able to switch out onto the perimeter if reuqired.

This season, whether due to effort or whatever, he seems to have taken a pretty big step back, at least from the eye test and this graph seems to confirm that.

[kennydorglas]

Well when u need to put your 5 in the perimeter bc he can't defend the rim... It just makes your team building nearly impossible.

[dremill24]

That jives...the eye test on Ayton's rim protection has been horrific

[Frank Lee]

Biyombo averages almost twice the blocks in half the minutes as DA. The Smack not getting much respect around here….. replace him with Shank??? Come on Quigs

[Qwigglez]

Biyombo averages almost twice the blocks in half the minutes as DA. The Smack not getting much respect around here….. replace him with Shank??? Come on Quigs

He is just too one dimensional for consistent minutes in the playoffs. I like Smack for 3rd string rotation, but not ideal to be the backup big IMO. If we could get Naz Reid or even Thomas Bryant, I'd prefer one of them.

[lilfishi22]

Biyombo averages almost twice the blocks in half the minutes as DA. The Smack not getting much respect around here….. replace him with Shank??? Come on Quigs

He is just too one dimensional for consistent minutes in the playoffs. I like Smack for 3rd string rotation, but not ideal to be the backup big IMO. If we could get Naz Reid or even Thomas Bryant, I'd prefer one of them.

Great energy guy who's going to come in and get you like 8 rebounds and 2 blocks in about 20mpg but any more than that, he's going to get exploited because he's not particularly quick with his rotations and the bites on fakes a fair bit. He's the perfect 3rd string and occasional 2nd stringer but the more minutes he plays, the faster the diminishing returns

[Sunlight]

If Portland continue to losing maybe J.Grant available? Crowder + Saric + FFR and third team(Milwaukee?).

[Jdiddy701]

That jives...the eye test on Ayton's rim protection has been horrific

Ayton is for sure a much better player than Bizzy but I’m not shocked to see the Suns play well without him. He’s been so bad at protecting the rim. It’s been really nice to see Bizzy set solid screens, roll hard, block shots, and just be an irritate in the paint. I think Ayton’s defense has always been pretty bad - he doesn’t play hard enough to be a good defender. You would think Ayton would learn to block more shots watching Bizzy and McGee the last few years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Qwigglez]

If Portland continue to losing maybe J.Grant available? Crowder + Saric + FFR and third team(Milwaukee?).

I doubt it. They are still in the running to make the playoffs and the way that franchise has operated has always indicated they are fine with being a treadmill team. Only way I see the Blazers make drastic changes is if Damian Lillard expresses his desire to leave.

[Frank Lee]

How important are the upcoming trades for next yr?
I say trades because im thinking there has to be a couple of moves made.

Next year We will have 6 guys inked with the ability to sign Johnson. If Paul is retained we will be 24million below the luxury tax line. Johnson will eat up a chunk of that.

As is, that will leave us two non minimum deals we can offer in free agency. The MLE is around 10mil and the bi annual, around 6mil. Thats our play money in free agency.

Do we have any ability to sign any more of our expiring roster to amounts more than the minimums without using the exceptions?

So is it imperative that whoever we sign we either are moving one of our expiring contracts for one with a few yrs left, or we acquire an expiring player and his Bird rights to be able to retain him in free agency.

Am i understanding this correctly?

If so, Looks kind of tricky for junkyard to pull off. May be go all in (for real this time) this yr?

It might not be that big of a deal, as we have our core… but we have seen how fragile that is.,. And of course there’s the ‘What do we do with GrandPaul’ question

Idk, but it kind of feels like a pivotal moment for us.

[King4Day]

Saw this on the Hornets board. Their fans were just thinking of trade ideas. I think I'd have to do that deal. Pref with Shamet since we'd have no room for him. We could re-sign Dario for a reasonable short deal this summer then.

Rozier to the Suns for Cowder, Saric, and Suns 1st

We get two expirings and a late 1st
Suns get Rozier who can start and help keep them afloat allowing Paul and Booker time to recover. When they're healthy Rozier becomes a valuable 6th man

If we are moving Rozier, I might actually prefer Shamet come back even though he has the extra year of salary.

1 year 10 million isn't horrible and gives us some insurance without having to feel like we have to spend big in FA to fill starting 2 guard spot.

[BobbieL]

Saw this on the Hornets board. Their fans were just thinking of trade ideas. I think I'd have to do that deal. Pref with Shamet since we'd have no room for him. We could re-sign Dario for a reasonable short deal this summer then.

Rozier to the Suns for Cowder, Saric, and Suns 1st

We get two expirings and a late 1st
Suns get Rozier who can start and help keep them afloat allowing Paul and Booker time to recover. When they're healthy Rozier becomes a valuable 6th man

If we are moving Rozier, I might actually prefer Shamet come back even though he has the extra year of salary.

1 year 10 million isn't horrible and gives us some insurance without having to feel like we have to spend big in FA to fill starting 2 guard spot.

Shamet and crowder seems pretty fair. They would buy out Crowder. Shamet just has the one year. Rozier is owed 70m

[Ghost of Kleine]

If Portland continue to losing maybe J.Grant available? Crowder + Saric + FFR and third team(Milwaukee?).

I doubt it. They are still in the running to make the playoffs and the way that franchise has operated has always indicated they are fine with being a treadmill team. Only way I see the Blazers make drastic changes is if Damian Lillard expresses his desire to leave.

This! But they also won't tank this year because they don't own their 23' pick. Chicago owns it , so they'll try to offset that value by remaining as competitive as possible. Although I really would like to get Grant, I'm not sure how we'd accomplish that except through trade ( being our only legitimate option). Would we consider an Ayton/ for Nurkic (significant downgrade)/ GRANT?? I think this would be a big mistake cumulatively, but IF we're really out on Ayton and money/ LT bill really isn't an issue, then this could be one way to go as we'd have Grant's bird rights and could resign him using that.

Although I'd much prefer an Ayton trade to Chicago for Vucevic/ P Will ( or White) and the Portland 23' 1st if we're being honest!

[King4Day]

I wonder if we could do 2 separate deals:

Washington: Crowder, Payne, and a 1st for Kuzma
&
Charlotte: Dario, Landry, and a 1st for Rozier

Dario to Charlotte because they could keep him longer term. May fit better as a higher IQ player.
Crowder to Washington since they prefer to stay competitive. They would retain him long term for much cheaper than they have to pay Kuz

That would be a reasonably priced injection of new players/talent.

Just assuming Washington and Charlotte would do those deals, how would you feel about those additions?

[Ghost of Kleine]

I wonder if we could do 2 separate deals:

Washington: Crowder, Payne, and a 1st for Kuzma
&
Charlotte: Dario, Landry, and a 1st for Rozier

Dario to Charlotte because they could keep him longer term. May fit better as a higher IQ player.
Crowder to Washington since they prefer to stay competitive. They would retain him long term for much cheaper than they have to pay Kuz

That would be a reasonably priced injection of new players/talent.

Just assuming Washington and Charlotte would do those deals, how would you feel about those additions?

We'd probably have to slightly up our offer for Kuzma as they've seemingly gone all in on prioritizing keeping him by making other players available for trade like Hachimura, etc.
Would we be willing to offer up a Crowder/ Johnson package for Kuzma knowing that as much as we like Johnson ( for our core) Kuzma is simply further along than Cam and on a different tier/ more durable long term than he is anyways, so cumulatively, his potentially big contract would be offset by Crowder' s expiring amount along with Johnson's expected big amount offsetting Kuzma's next contract??

I could absolutely see Charlotte doing the trade you suggested man! And it really is a solid trade for both parties involved. I will say given our financial flexibility constraints though hitting as early as next season, we really do need to be cognizant of trying to extract a modicum of additional value back in any deals in the form of 2nds ( at the very least) solely for the purpose of securing low scale COST CONTROLLED asset talent/ upside swings!! Maybe at least try and get one of the 2nds back that they have in 23. I'd prefer Boston's honestly, but ultimately wouldn't be too put off by accepting Boston's given their recent injury issues surfacing again.

Also considering that we'll have a very difficult/ complicated time trying to refill our depth, we absolutely should not be sending out our 23' 1st under any circumstances as it represents a rookie scale cost controlled slot to offset our restrictive cap situation! We need to begin hitting on these cost controlled talent assets NOT ONLY to recoup our asset cache beyond picks. But also to offset our escalating payroll constraints.

[King4Day]

I wonder if we could do 2 separate deals:

Washington: Crowder, Payne, and a 1st for Kuzma
&
Charlotte: Dario, Landry, and a 1st for Rozier

Dario to Charlotte because they could keep him longer term. May fit better as a higher IQ player.
Crowder to Washington since they prefer to stay competitive. They would retain him long term for much cheaper than they have to pay Kuz

That would be a reasonably priced injection of new players/talent.

Just assuming Washington and Charlotte would do those deals, how would you feel about those additions?

We'd probably have to slightly up our offer for Kuzma as they've seemingly gone all in on prioritizing keeping him by making other players available for trade like Hachimura, etc.
Would we be willing to offer up a Crowder/ Johnson package for Kuzma knowing that as much as we like Johnson ( for our core) Kuzma is simply further along than Cam and on a different tier/ more durable long term than he is anyways, so cumulatively, his potentially big contract would be offset by Crowder' s expiring amount along with Johnson's expected big amount offsetting Kuzma's next contract??

I could absolutely see Charlotte doing the trade you suggested man! And it really is a solid trade for both parties involved. I will say given our financial flexibility constraints though hitting as early as next season, we really do need to be cognizant of trying to extract a modicum of additional value back in any deals in the form of 2nds ( at the very least) solely for the purpose of securing low scale COST CONTROLLED asset talent/ upside swings!! Maybe at least try and get one of the 2nds back that they have in 23. I'd prefer Boston's honestly, but ultimately wouldn't be too put off by accepting Boston's given their recent injury issues surfacing again.

Also considering that we'll have a very difficult/ complicated time trying to refill our depth, we absolutely should not be sending out our 23' 1st under any circumstances as it represents a rookie scale cost controlled slot to offset our restrictive cap situation! We need to begin hitting on these cost controlled talent assets NOT ONLY to recoup our asset cache beyond picks. But also to offset our escalating payroll constraints.

I think they will move Kuzma. I believe they will see if they can get him to agree cheaper than he prefers, but ultimately moving him. In the end, he'll be on another team. But you may be right that the offer might not be enough.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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