Players you’ve “come around on”

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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#21 » by Texas Chuck » Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:23 am

Doctor MJ wrote:For me guys like Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett & Bill Russell are the first guys I think of. People probably rolling their eyes because all this happened over a decade ago, but these were not guys I was always high on.


In a similar but kind of reverse vein, this is me and KG too. I have this rep as KG-hater and am still lower on him than the plus/minus group, but I've come around so far on him in the past decade. I definitely used to be one of those people who looked at the relative lack of team success in Minnesota and thought this guy is so overrated. I'm pretty sure among my early posts on this board was arguing I could name 50 players better than him. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

So while I definitely don't know the Doc who wasn't really high on Nash or KG, I can certainly believe he once existed. Now if you tried to tell us this about Curry.... :wink:
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#22 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:47 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:For me guys like Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett & Bill Russell are the first guys I think of. People probably rolling their eyes because all this happened over a decade ago, but these were not guys I was always high on.


In a similar but kind of reverse vein, this is me and KG too. I have this rep as KG-hater and am still lower on him than the plus/minus group, but I've come around so far on him in the past decade. I definitely used to be one of those people who looked at the relative lack of team success in Minnesota and thought this guy is so overrated. I'm pretty sure among my early posts on this board was arguing I could name 50 players better than him. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

So while I definitely don't know the Doc who wasn't really high on Nash or KG, I can certainly believe he once existed. Now if you tried to tell us this about Curry.... :wink:


I never thought doc was particularly high on Curry vs really likes how he played tho lol
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#23 » by Warriors Analyst » Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:59 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:Oh yeah, how could I forget Andrew Wiggins


Well, thing is, for most of his NBA career it was objectively correct to say he wasn't all that valuable.


Wiggins' career progression with the Warriors is fascinating. He turned himself into a credible volume shooter, focused on defense, beefed up his BBIQ some after spending some time getting used to the quick cuts/off-ball movement of the Warriors' system, and otherwise didn't make many improvements to his skillset. Instead, he just stopped taking dumb shots. That version of Wiggins' pre-playoffs was a solid player. But I was still ok with moving off of him in the offseason if the Warriors didn't get to the Finals last year.

Instead, Wiggins became the second coming of Gerald Wallace when he realized that Poole taking up a bigger role in the offense would push him down the pecking order. Wiggins said during a podcast appearance on Andre Iguodala's show that his desire to grab rebounds had everything to do with wanting to get more buckets. And then by dedicating himself to rebounding and dirty work on defense in the playoffs, Wiggins simultaneously proved and defied his detractors.

My favorite stat about Wiggins' playoff run is not the rebounding numbers, but rather his shooting splits.

In the regular season, Wiggins had 46.6/39.3/63.4 shooting splits. Prior to Draymond Green getting injured, Wiggins was shooting over 40% from three. But in the two months that Draymond missed, Wiggins went through a huge slump and had a gross February. From the start of February to Draymond's return, Wiggins averaged 13.9 points on 41/35/39 shooting splits. Jonathan Kuminga, on the other hand, averaged 15.1 points on 56/36/77 splits over that same period.

So that's some context for his regular season. He still shot well despite a prolonged slump. But come playoffs, Wiggins averaged just 16.5 points a game on 46.9/33.3/64.6 shooting splits. That's pretty much on par with his regular season career averages of 44.9/35.5/72.2.

This is all to say, Wiggins was exactly the same player he's always been on offense come playoff time, albeit with a more selective shot chart. Incredibly, Andrew Wiggins shot worse from three in the 2022 Finals than Harrison Barnes did in the 2016 Finals. That Wiggins had such a huge impact on that series is a credit to him as a player and to his personal growth, which allowed him to thrive doing things he'd never shown a propensity for.
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#24 » by Doctor MJ » Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:42 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:For me guys like Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett & Bill Russell are the first guys I think of. People probably rolling their eyes because all this happened over a decade ago, but these were not guys I was always high on.


In a similar but kind of reverse vein, this is me and KG too. I have this rep as KG-hater and am still lower on him than the plus/minus group, but I've come around so far on him in the past decade. I definitely used to be one of those people who looked at the relative lack of team success in Minnesota and thought this guy is so overrated. I'm pretty sure among my early posts on this board was arguing I could name 50 players better than him. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

So while I definitely don't know the Doc who wasn't really high on Nash or KG, I can certainly believe he once existed. Now if you tried to tell us this about Curry.... :wink:


:lol: That's a good point actually. I can't claim to have ever been lower-than-typical on Curry...or his brother for that matter. I think it's worth trying to understand why this was different, and my answer would be:

Steve Nash wasn't something I was looking for, but after Nash, Steph Curry WAS something I was looking for.

Another example of this I actually wrote about way back when in my old blog:

Searching for Bill Russell ~ Starring Anthony Davis (2012)

Fun going back and digging that up. Funny to think that the guy I think has been the best defender of this generation was indeed in AD's 2012 Draft, but it was instead a 4-year guy taken in the 2nd round who was feared to be a "tweener". :P
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#25 » by clearlynotjesse » Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:08 pm

"Inelastic" scorers like Kobe, T-Mac, young Paul Pierce, etc. Just very valuable to have someone that can use all those possessions at even just league average-ish efficiency. Frees energy up for the rest of the team on D, keeps turnovers down, etc.
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#26 » by ceiling raiser » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:00 am

Have to add Wilt Chamberlain here. I’ve kind of gone full circle on the guy.

When I first joined I had him 3rd all-time behind Rusell and Jordan.

Over the next few years I probably overadjusted after seeing a thread asking whether Wilt or Robinson was the better player (good thread BTW).

As 70sFan had unearthed more footage I see a very cerebral player (caveat being highlight bias). I don’t think he’s fully a victim of circumstance but I have come to believe I was severely underrating him.

Can see a case for him ahead of basically anybody except Jordan/Russell/James.
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#27 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:00 am

Dirk Nowitzki(especially as a guy who closed up the holes in his game after having them exploited, instead of blaming his teammates and running to a new team) and Kobe Bryant. I watch so many of these guys that are more efficient in the regular season by spamming something over and over that can't be stopped, then watch them struggle against far inferior players and defenders when they can't work their go to move, and it makes me appreciate offensive versatility and a breadth of weapons, even if it comes with some lowered efficiency and impact numbers in the RS and early in the playoffs.
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Re: Players you’ve “come around on” 

Post#28 » by O_6 » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:32 pm

For whatever reason I just kind of ignored/underrated what SGA was doing the last couple of years. I saw the 24 PPG on decent efficiency at the young age of 22/23, nobody can be unimpressed by that. But at the same time I just thought he was getting inflated in terms of potential because he was putting up empty numbers on an absolutely garbage team.

When he was being compared to Donovan Mitchell in the off-season, I kind of brushed off the comparison because I thought Mitchell had proven a lot more being the engine of a great offense. But 40 games in and I'm ready to say I was dead wrong on SGA. His potential is real and it is extremely high imo. I don't think he's completely passed Booker/Mitchell/healthy Lavine already, but there's not a question in my mind that the player of those that I'd want the most for the next 3 years is SGA.

- 10.1 FTA at .906 FT%
- .661 FG% at rim
- Beautifully diverse and efficient mid-range game
- Low 10.8% TOV rate
- More than capable passer (5.5 APG this year after 6 the previous 2)

His offensive game is just so damn great. He's doing this without a consistently great 3pt shot yet, but he shot 42% on 5 attempts per game just 2 years ago and he has great touch everywhere else so I think he'll be just fine in this area. I haven't looked too much into his defense but it seems to be average-ish with room for improvement, nothing that's a serious negative.

I don't think this is a mirage. I think SGA will become a better player and have a better career than Dame Lillard. I'm not ready to say SGA can become Harden because of Harden's playmaking, but I think SGA actually has the tools to be a better scorer than Harden. I'm very high on this kid right now.

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