the things most Lebron fans use to put him over MJ

[Kenny Griffin]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe )

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe )

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe )

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe )

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe )



so the idea that lebron is anywhere near Jordan is absurd. because we all agree kobe is nowhere near MJ. his overall efficiency is the only thing thats near MJ but thats only because of rebounds and assists being inflated and they mostly came during an era with elevated place where guys like harden, westbrook, luka, jokic and others are making triple doubles look ordinary. even lebrons rebounds and assists for the past while have been way higher than they were during his prime.


people are ready to put lebron ahead of MJ officially after he passes kareem. seems a little weird because Karl malone was also never considered anywhere near MJ. he just played longer. malone was built like a tank. so is lebron. i don't know how much of it is natural. i've heard of him being linked to clinics in miami and biogenesis. Kristine Leaky said on the herd that he had a biochemist on his payroll. since that we never saw her again. what else could he be spending millions on every year for his body. makes no sense. lebron stopped wanting to compete for team USA a while ago for a reason i guess. much stricter testing is done for fiba


i just don't buy the longevity stuff. lebron could score 45,000 points. it wouldn't change my opinion. i have him top 10 all time. i will never put him ahead of guys that were loyal and won their first without needing to go elsewhere and stack the deck

[OhayoKD]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe )

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe )

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe )

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe )

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe )



so the idea that lebron is anywhere near Jordan is absurd. because we all agree kobe is nowhere near MJ. his overall efficiency is the only thing thats near MJ but thats only because of rebounds and assists being inflated and they mostly came during an era with elevated place where guys like harden, westbrook, luka, jokic and others are making triple doubles look ordinary. even lebrons rebounds and assists for the past while have been way higher than they were during his prime.


people are ready to put lebron ahead of MJ officially after he passes kareem. seems a little weird because Karl malone was also never considered anywhere near MJ. he just played longer. malone was built like a tank. so is lebron. i don't know how much of it is natural. i've heard of him being linked to clinics in miami and biogenesis. Kristine Leaky said on the herd that he had a biochemist on his payroll. since that we never saw her again. what else could he be spending millions on every year for his body. makes no sense. lebron stopped wanting to compete for team USA a while ago for a reason i guess. much stricter testing is done for fiba


i just don't buy the longevity stuff. lebron could score 45,000 points. it wouldn't change my opinion. i have him top 10 all time. i will never put him ahead of guys that were loyal and won their first without needing to go elsewhere and stack the deck

Perhaps this applies to reddit or RealGM general. From what I've seen on this board, people who put him above MJ primarily do due to
-> consistently better looking defensive impact
-> consistently better looking holistic impact
longevity/extended prime
playoff elevation/offensive resiliency in his second cleveland stint

Besides point 3, I don't think any of this really applies to Kobe

[Jaivl]

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe )

what

[HeartBreakKid]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe )

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe )

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe )

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe )

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe )



so the idea that lebron is anywhere near Jordan is absurd. because we all agree kobe is nowhere near MJ. his overall efficiency is the only thing thats near MJ but thats only because of rebounds and assists being inflated and they mostly came during an era with elevated place where guys like harden, westbrook, luka, jokic and others are making triple doubles look ordinary. even lebrons rebounds and assists for the past while have been way higher than they were during his prime.


people are ready to put lebron ahead of MJ officially after he passes kareem. seems a little weird because Karl malone was also never considered anywhere near MJ. he just played longer. malone was built like a tank. so is lebron. i don't know how much of it is natural. i've heard of him being linked to clinics in miami and biogenesis. Kristine Leaky said on the herd that he had a biochemist on his payroll. since that we never saw her again. what else could he be spending millions on every year for his body. makes no sense. lebron stopped wanting to compete for team USA a while ago for a reason i guess. much stricter testing is done for fiba


i just don't buy the longevity stuff. lebron could score 45,000 points. it wouldn't change my opinion. i have him top 10 all time. i will never put him ahead of guys that were loyal and won their first without needing to go elsewhere and stack the deck

Super team? The 2010 Celtics who were expected to lose in the 2nd round?

[HeartBreakKid]

Also, the basic premise of the thread is the biggest example of a false equivalency you can get.

[NbaAllDay]

This hurt my brain to read.

[homecourtloss]

Sounds like a YouTube section copypasta. You might gain traction on GB with this.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe )

what

Man this is why being a kobe supporter sucks sometimes lol

[Kenny Griffin]

Perhaps this applies to reddit or RealGM general. From what I've seen on this board, people who put him above MJ primarily do due to
-> consistently better looking defensive impact
-> consistently better looking holistic impact
longevity/extended prime
playoff elevation/offensive resiliency in his second cleveland stint

Besides point 3, I don't think any of this really applies to Kobe

lebron was a good defensive player for a short time. maybe from 2009 to 2014 he was elite. but mostly on just chase down blocks and playing passing lanes with his roaming style. he was never a truly great on ball defender and would shy away from top matchups. jordan would take on the challenge to defend the best player. plus there wasn't a ton of switching in jordans day. lebron had the ability to get soft picked off of guys have that called smart defense. avoiding shots like durants game winner in 2018 finals game 3. it was "the smart play" but not really. he avoided getting embarrassed like in the previous finals game 3 when durant hit the same shot basically. defense has become far less physical and players settle way more for threes. kind of gives lebron a chance to rest most of the time. analytics don't factor in eras and their differences in style of play

i'm not familiar with this "holistic impact" ... is that his demeanour? attitude. sorry i'm new here. jordans style of leadership worked better for his era. lebrons works better for this one. guys can't take tough love, criticism, intimidation like they used to.

the longevity/extended prime is most likely due to the era/possible enhancements. its turned into a league where slow unathletic guys can dominate like jokic and luka. so of course lebrons gonna be able to play forever if thats the new standard for conditioning


as for the playoff elevation. i was never really sold on lebrons ability to make the finals every year considering the eastern conference was so bad during that time. kobe and jordan played in a much tougher conference

50+ win teams eliminated career:

#1 Kobe - 24
#2 Jordan - 20
#3 Duncan - 18
#4 Lebron - 14


i mean if you put jordans bulls up against the raptors, pacers, wizards, bobcats and knicks of the 2010s he would make the finals easily and dominate on an entirely different level

but again it all comes down to the overall physicality of defense being taken away. perimeter players regularly shot around 40% in the finals back then. which also explains kobes dip. it was like streetball. referees let things go

1995 - drexler: 45.0%
1995 - horry: 43.4%
1995 - Cassell: 42.9%
1995 - smith: 37.9%

1995 - penny: 50.0%
1995 - shaw: 42.6%
1995 - anderson: 36.0%
1995 - scott: 31.0%

-------------------------------

1996 - Jordan: 41.5%
1996 - pippen: 34.3%
1996 - kukoc: 42.3%
1996 - harper: 37.5%
1996 - kerr: 30.3%


1996 - Payton: 44.4%
1996 - schrempf: 44.3%
1996 - hawkins: 45.5%
1996 - perkins: 37.7%
1996 - mcmillin: 42.9%

------------------------------


1997 - jordan: 45.6%
1997 - pippen: 42.1%
1997 - kukoc: 40.5%
1997 - harper: 34.4%
1997 - kerr: 36.0%


1997 - stockton: 50.0%
1997 - hornacek: 37.9%
1997 - russell: 39.0%
1997 - anderson: 31.6%


--------------------------------

1998 - jordan: 42.7%
1998 - pippen: 41.0%
1998 - harper: 36.4%
1998 - kerr: 35.0%
1998 - kukoc: 50.0%


1998 - anderson: 50.0%
1998 - stockton: 49.0%
1998 - hornacek: 41.1%
1998 - russell: 40.9%
1998 - eisley: 37.5%

------------------------------

1999 - johnson 50.0%
1999 - elie: 44.7%
1999 - elliott: 33.3%
1999 - jackson: 32.4%
1999 - kerr: 40.0%

1999 - sprewell: 41.0%
1999 - houston: 42.7%
1999 - johnson: 28.6%
1999 - ward: 46.2%
1999 - childs: 22.7%


-------------------------------

2000 - kobe: 36.7%
2000 - rice: 40.0%
2000 - fisher: 42.9%
2000 - shaw: 21.6%
2000 - harper: 46.4%


2000 - miller: 41.3%
2000 - rose: 46.7%
2000 - jackson: 41.3%
2000 - best: 46.7%
2000 - croshere: 54.5%


-----------------------------

2001 - kobe: 41.5%
2001 - fisher: 43.6%
2001 - fox: 44.1%
2001 - shaw: 30.0%
2001 - lue: 58.3%


2001 - iverson: 40.7%
2001 - snow: 40.7%
2001 - mickie: 31.3%
2001 - bell: 30.8%
2001 - jones: 40.0%
2001 - ollie: 33.3%

------------------------------

2002 - kobe: 51.4%
2002 - fisher: 51.5%
2002 - fox: 52.2%
2002 - george: 43.5%
2002 - shaw: 28.6%
2002 - hunter: 20.0%

2002 - kidd: 43.8%
2002 - kittles: 45.2%
2002 - van horn: 38.6%
2002 - harris: 34.4%
2002 - jefferson: 52.4%


--------------------------------

2003 - parker: 38.6%
2003 - jackson: 37.7%
2003 - ginobili: 34.8%
2003 - bowen: 23.3%
2003 - claxton: 56.0%

2003 - kidd: 36.4%
2003 - jefferson: 41.7%
2003 - kittles: 37.7%
2003 - harris: 30.6%


---------------------------------

2004 - kobe: 38.1%
2004 - fisher: 30.6%
2004 - george: 39.3%
2004 - payton: 32.1%
2004 - medvidenko: 35.3%
2004 - rush: 31.8
2004 - walton: 38.5%



2004 - hamilton: 40.2%
2004 - billups: 50.9%
2004 - prince: 38.9%
2004 - hunter: 29.4%
2004 - james: 50.0%

---------------------------

2005 - manu: 49.4%
2005 - parker: 45.8%
2005 - bowen: 38.0%
2005 - barry: 40.7%
2005 - beno: 36.4%
2005 - brown: 27.3%


2005 - billups: 43.4%
2005 - hamilton: 38.6%
2005 - prince: 38.2%
2005 - hunter: 38.1%

----------------------------------

2006 - wade: 46.8%
2006 - walker: 39.1%
2006 - williams: 36.0%
2006 - posey: 41.9%
2006 - payton: 36.8%
2006 - anderson: 33.3%

2006 - terry: 47.8%
2006 - howard: 38.8%
2006 - stackhouse: 35.5%
2006 - harris: 36.4%
2006 - van horn: 27.3%


------------------------------------


2007 - parker: 56.8%
2007 - duncan: 44.6%
2007 - manu: 36.7%
2007 - bowen: 29.6%
2007 - finley: 26.1%
2007 - barry: 36.4%


2007 - lebron: 35.6%
2007 - gibson: 43.9%
2007 - pavlovic: 36.4%
2007 - jones: 45.5%
2007 - marshall: 31.5%
2007 - snow: 40.0%

----------------------------------

2008 - pierce: 43.2%
2008 - allen: 50.7%
2008 - rondo: 37.7%
2008 - house: 35.7%
2008 - cassell: 37.5%
2008 - posey: 50.0%

2008 - kobe: 40.5%
2008 - fisher: 40.5%
2008 - vujacic: 39.1%
2008 - radmanovic: 39.0%
2008 - farmar: 48.4%
2008 - walton: 31.3%
2008 - ariza: 55.6%

-------------------------------

2009 - kobe: 43.0%
2009 - ariza: 35.7%
2009 - fisher: 50.0%
2009 - farmar: 36.8%
2009 - luke: 80.0%
2009 - brown: 0.0%
2009 - sasha: 0.0%

2009 - hedo: 49.2%
2009 - lewis: 40.5%
2009 - alston: 36.8%
2009 - pietrus: 47.5%
2009 - lee: 37.5%
2009 - reddick: 40.0%
2009 - nelson: 34.8%

--------------------------------

2010 - kobe: 40.5%
2010 - metta: 36.1%
2010 - fisher: 42.0%
2010 - brown: 45.0%
2010 - farmar: 32.1%
2010 - walton: 33.3%


2010 - pierce: 43.9%
2010 - allen: 36.7%
2010 - rondo: 45.4%
2010 - robinson: 40.0%
2010 - allen: 33.3%

[MyUniBroDavis]

Perhaps this applies to reddit or RealGM general. From what I've seen on this board, people who put him above MJ primarily do due to
-> consistently better looking defensive impact
-> consistently better looking holistic impact
longevity/extended prime
playoff elevation/offensive resiliency in his second cleveland stint

Besides point 3, I don't think any of this really applies to Kobe

lebron was a good defensive player for a short time. maybe from 2009 to 2014 he was elite. but mostly on just chase down blocks and playing passing lanes with his roaming style. he was never a truly great on ball defender and would shy away from top matchups. jordan would take on the challenge to defend the best player. plus there wasn't a ton of switching in jordans day. lebron had the ability to get soft picked off of guys have that called smart defense. avoiding shots like durants game winner in 2018 finals game 3. it was "the smart play" but not really. he avoided getting embarrassed like in the previous finals game 3 when durant hit the same shot basically. defense has become far less physical and players settle way more for threes. kind of gives lebron a chance to rest most of the time. analytics don't factor in eras and their differences in style of play

i'm not familiar with this "holistic impact" ... is that his demeanour? attitude. sorry i'm new here. jordans style of leadership worked better for his era. lebrons works better for this one. guys can't take tough love, criticism, intimidation like they used to.

the longevity/extended prime is most likely due to the era/possible enhancements. its turned into a league where slow unathletic guys can dominate like jokic and luka. so of course lebrons gonna be able to play forever if thats the new standard for conditioning


as for the playoff elevation. i was never really sold on lebrons ability to make the finals every year considering the eastern conference was so bad during that time. kobe and jordan played in a much tougher conference

50+ win teams eliminated career:

#1 Kobe - 24
#2 Jordan - 20
#3 Duncan - 18
#4 Lebron - 14


i mean if you put jordans bulls up against the raptors, pacers, wizards, bobcats and knicks of the 2010s he would make the finals easily and dominate on an entirely different level

but again it all comes down to the overall physicality of defense being taken away. perimeter players regularly shot around 40% in the finals back then. which also explains kobes dip. it was like streetball. referees let things go

1995 - drexler: 45.0%
1995 - horry: 43.4%
1995 - Cassell: 42.9%
1995 - smith: 37.9%

1995 - penny: 50.0%
1995 - shaw: 42.6%
1995 - anderson: 36.0%
1995 - scott: 31.0%

-------------------------------

1996 - Jordan: 41.5%
1996 - pippen: 34.3%
1996 - kukoc: 42.3%
1996 - harper: 37.5%
1996 - kerr: 30.3%


1996 - Payton: 44.4%
1996 - schrempf: 44.3%
1996 - hawkins: 45.5%
1996 - perkins: 37.7%
1996 - mcmillin: 42.9%

------------------------------


1997 - jordan: 45.6%
1997 - pippen: 42.1%
1997 - kukoc: 40.5%
1997 - harper: 34.4%
1997 - kerr: 36.0%


1997 - stockton: 50.0%
1997 - hornacek: 37.9%
1997 - russell: 39.0%
1997 - anderson: 31.6%


--------------------------------

1998 - jordan: 42.7%
1998 - pippen: 41.0%
1998 - harper: 36.4%
1998 - kerr: 35.0%
1998 - kukoc: 50.0%


1998 - anderson: 50.0%
1998 - stockton: 49.0%
1998 - hornacek: 41.1%
1998 - russell: 40.9%
1998 - eisley: 37.5%

------------------------------

1999 - johnson 50.0%
1999 - elie: 44.7%
1999 - elliott: 33.3%
1999 - jackson: 32.4%
1999 - kerr: 40.0%

1999 - sprewell: 41.0%
1999 - houston: 42.7%
1999 - johnson: 28.6%
1999 - ward: 46.2%
1999 - childs: 22.7%


-------------------------------

2000 - kobe: 36.7%
2000 - rice: 40.0%
2000 - fisher: 42.9%
2000 - shaw: 21.6%
2000 - harper: 46.4%


2000 - miller: 41.3%
2000 - rose: 46.7%
2000 - jackson: 41.3%
2000 - best: 46.7%
2000 - croshere: 54.5%


-----------------------------

2001 - kobe: 41.5%
2001 - fisher: 43.6%
2001 - fox: 44.1%
2001 - shaw: 30.0%
2001 - lue: 58.3%


2001 - iverson: 40.7%
2001 - snow: 40.7%
2001 - mickie: 31.3%
2001 - bell: 30.8%
2001 - jones: 40.0%
2001 - ollie: 33.3%

------------------------------

2002 - kobe: 51.4%
2002 - fisher: 51.5%
2002 - fox: 52.2%
2002 - george: 43.5%
2002 - shaw: 28.6%
2002 - hunter: 20.0%

2002 - kidd: 43.8%
2002 - kittles: 45.2%
2002 - van horn: 38.6%
2002 - harris: 34.4%
2002 - jefferson: 52.4%


--------------------------------

2003 - parker: 38.6%
2003 - jackson: 37.7%
2003 - ginobili: 34.8%
2003 - bowen: 23.3%
2003 - claxton: 56.0%

2003 - kidd: 36.4%
2003 - jefferson: 41.7%
2003 - kittles: 37.7%
2003 - harris: 30.6%


---------------------------------

2004 - kobe: 38.1%
2004 - fisher: 30.6%
2004 - george: 39.3%
2004 - payton: 32.1%
2004 - medvidenko: 35.3%
2004 - rush: 31.8
2004 - walton: 38.5%



2004 - hamilton: 40.2%
2004 - billups: 50.9%
2004 - prince: 38.9%
2004 - hunter: 29.4%
2004 - james: 50.0%

---------------------------

2005 - manu: 49.4%
2005 - parker: 45.8%
2005 - bowen: 38.0%
2005 - barry: 40.7%
2005 - beno: 36.4%
2005 - brown: 27.3%


2005 - billups: 43.4%
2005 - hamilton: 38.6%
2005 - prince: 38.2%
2005 - hunter: 38.1%

----------------------------------

2006 - wade: 46.8%
2006 - walker: 39.1%
2006 - williams: 36.0%
2006 - posey: 41.9%
2006 - payton: 36.8%
2006 - anderson: 33.3%

2006 - terry: 47.8%
2006 - howard: 38.8%
2006 - stackhouse: 35.5%
2006 - harris: 36.4%
2006 - van horn: 27.3%


------------------------------------


2007 - parker: 56.8%
2007 - duncan: 44.6%
2007 - manu: 36.7%
2007 - bowen: 29.6%
2007 - finley: 26.1%
2007 - barry: 36.4%


2007 - lebron: 35.6%
2007 - gibson: 43.9%
2007 - pavlovic: 36.4%
2007 - jones: 45.5%
2007 - marshall: 31.5%
2007 - snow: 40.0%

----------------------------------

2008 - pierce: 43.2%
2008 - allen: 50.7%
2008 - rondo: 37.7%
2008 - house: 35.7%
2008 - cassell: 37.5%
2008 - posey: 50.0%

2008 - kobe: 40.5%
2008 - fisher: 40.5%
2008 - vujacic: 39.1%
2008 - radmanovic: 39.0%
2008 - farmar: 48.4%
2008 - walton: 31.3%
2008 - ariza: 55.6%

-------------------------------

2009 - kobe: 43.0%
2009 - ariza: 35.7%
2009 - fisher: 50.0%
2009 - farmar: 36.8%
2009 - luke: 80.0%
2009 - brown: 0.0%
2009 - sasha: 0.0%

2009 - hedo: 49.2%
2009 - lewis: 40.5%
2009 - alston: 36.8%
2009 - pietrus: 47.5%
2009 - lee: 37.5%
2009 - reddick: 40.0%
2009 - nelson: 34.8%

--------------------------------

2010 - kobe: 40.5%
2010 - metta: 36.1%
2010 - fisher: 42.0%
2010 - brown: 45.0%
2010 - farmar: 32.1%
2010 - walton: 33.3%


2010 - pierce: 43.9%
2010 - allen: 36.7%
2010 - rondo: 45.4%
2010 - robinson: 40.0%
2010 - allen: 33.3%

You know the thing i love is normally no one would take the bait but since you mentioned Jordan ohayokd is vigorously typing on her computer responding to every point you’re about to make

[Kingdibs19]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe ) 13 vs 11

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe ) 1st soon vs 4th

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe ) 1403 vs 1346 but really the longevity argument is about longevity of prime

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe ) 10 vs 7

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe ) 2212 on 34.4% vs 1827 on 32.9%

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe ) 10301 total assists vs 6306 total assists

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe ) 73 win Warriors vs Celtics Big 3

The skills stuff is not quantifiable so didn’t post them. But the rest of these are reaches.

[ty 4191]

sorry i'm new here.

Clearly....

[Kenny Griffin]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe ) 13 vs 11

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe ) 1st soon vs 4th

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe ) 1403 vs 1346 but really the longevity argument is about longevity of prime

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe ) 10 vs 7

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe ) 34.4% vs 32.9%

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe ) 10301 total assists vs 6306 total assists

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe ) 73 win Warriors vs Celtics Big 3

The skills stuff is not quantifiable so didn’t post them. But the rest of these are reaches.

lebrons had the better career on paper than kobe. but i just don't respect the way he won. his cleveland ring was good if you ignore the draymond suspension. but its hard to

none of this stuff put kobe over MJ so it doesn't put lebron over MJ

[Dutchball97]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe ) 13 vs 11

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe ) 1st soon vs 4th

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe ) 1403 vs 1346 but really the longevity argument is about longevity of prime

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe ) 10 vs 7

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe ) 34.4% vs 32.9%

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe ) 10301 total assists vs 6306 total assists

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe ) 73 win Warriors vs Celtics Big 3

The skills stuff is not quantifiable so didn’t post them. But the rest of these are reaches.

lebrons had the better career on paper than kobe. but i just don't respect the way he won. his cleveland ring was good if you ignore the draymond suspension. but its hard to

none of this stuff put kobe over MJ so it doesn't put lebron over MJ

The thing is that people here don't really use any of those arguments. It's things like his 09 season being the biggest statistical outlier ever, his 2016 ring being the biggest upset, his prime length being unprecedented even compared to someone like Kareem and his overall career value being the highest.

I prefer MJ because despite all that MJ looks better when surrounded by good talent than LeBron and I value ceiling raising more than floor raising, the latter also being an important factor for LeBron breaking statistical records in 09 in the first place. MJ was also more consistent during his prime. He faced significantly tougher competition in his conference as well. Plenty of reasons to have MJ over LeBron imo but if you feel like you have to try and devalue LeBron's accomplishments to make an argument for MJ, you're going about it the wrong way.

[1993Playoffs]

OP can’t be serious with these arguments

[prolific passer]

This seems like a person who got kicked off of other message boards due to making the same annoying arguments all the time.

[Joao Saraiva]

People who put LeBron over Jordan usually use this (I'll sum it up quick as I don't have time to put a long post)
- Prime and peak are a wash. You take their best year, their best 3 years or 5 years and there is a slight difference between them. It has a statistical case either way - Kobe fails miserably stats wise to be in the same page;

- Longevity goes LeBron's way. And it's KAJ type of longevity. If you add value with a mathematic formula again Kobe has longevity but he hasn't significant edge over MJ - 1st because Kobe doesn't add as much value per season, and second because he played more years but his 1st years are not in the same breath as Jordan's or LeBron's

- LeBron is a proven all arround talent. Won as a rim protector and a PF in Miami. Won as a SF with Irving in Cleveland. Won as a PG in Los Angeles while leading the league in assists (I don't remember Kobe leading the lead in assists but... be my guest OP).

Accodales can't have much to do with it, because MJ has an edge on accodales obviously. 1 more MVP, 2 more FMVP. All time 1st teams can't hold the same value.

However, even accodales wise Kobe is miles away - 1 MVP, 2 FMVP... a lot less finishes in top 3 MVP votings and so on.

OP don't try to nitpick. What you're doing is clearly creating a false statement about what LeBron fans say.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Lebron has more 1st team all nba's ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more total points ( so does kobe )

Lebron has more longevity ( so did kobe )

Lebron has more finals appearances ( so did kobe )

Lebrons a better 3 point shooter ( so was kobe )

Lebron has more all around skills ( so did kobe )

Lebron was his teams top playmaker ( so was kobe )

Lebron played in a more skilled era ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat better teams ( so did kobe )

Lebron beat a finals superteam ( so did kobe )



so the idea that lebron is anywhere near Jordan is absurd. because we all agree kobe is nowhere near MJ. his overall efficiency is the only thing thats near MJ but thats only because of rebounds and assists being inflated and they mostly came during an era with elevated place where guys like harden, westbrook, luka, jokic and others are making triple doubles look ordinary. even lebrons rebounds and assists for the past while have been way higher than they were during his prime.

first off, many of those things are not what educated lebron fans use. and some of those, like the all around skills one simply isn't true. mj was a better all around player than kobe.

the biggest one however was efficiency. mj was a much more efficient scorer than kobe. and lebron was more efficient than mj.

longevity - it's not about just longevity, it's about longevity at an elite level. kobe played for a long time, but he was mostly crap for his last 5 seasons.

people are ready to put lebron ahead of MJ officially after he passes kareem. seems a little weird because Karl malone was also never considered anywhere near MJ. he just played longer. malone was built like a tank. so is lebron. i don't know how much of it is natural. i've heard of him being linked to clinics in miami and biogenesis. Kristine Leaky said on the herd that he had a biochemist on his payroll. since that we never saw her again. what else could he be spending millions on every year for his body. makes no sense. lebron stopped wanting to compete for team USA a while ago for a reason i guess. much stricter testing is done for fiba


i just don't buy the longevity stuff. lebron could score 45,000 points. it wouldn't change my opinion. i have him top 10 all time. i will never put him ahead of guys that were loyal and won their first without needing to go elsewhere and stack the deck

[MyUniBroDavis]

Unfortunately it sounds like none of y’all are prepared for the 38 year old raptor fan whose ready to school everyone here in debates

OhayoKD went from having a spider sense to jump at every time the word Jordan appeared on any thread even if it was in the off topic forum, to having her timbers shivered and shutting off her laptop after seeing King Kenny’s second post. Kenny obliterated the biggest Jordan detractor in realgm history in his first post

Truly a historic Jordan/Kobe like performance. Mamba mentality

[Homer38]

He is still mad about LeBronto!

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