2022-2023 Regular Season Game 46: Orlando Magic (17-28) at Washington Wizards (19-26) - 7pm

[JF5]

Too many players to play and develop and you simply can't develop more than 3-4 players at most in same time.

Suggs situation in particular is complete mess. He isn't good player right now, he is actually pretty damn awful, but since 2023 calendar year we play him 13,8 mpg where he menages to suck his way into 5,3 ppg on 2,3 apg on mighty 35% FG, 14% for 3.

It's lose lose situation. Magic don't seem to be all that invested into him and development, and in same time he hinders their ability to compete , and on other side, he won't develop into rotation player playing 13 mpg of garbage time.


Imo it would be very, very foolish to keep this whole bunch pass deadline. Simply too many players expecting and needing serious playing time and usage.

Well to be fair to Suggs he's been in and out of the roster with nagging injury with a complete shift of his role on the team.

He was the 3rd option with the ball in his hands. Now he's just playing role player minutes.

I'm assuming if the team doesn't use him in a consolidation trade for a star he'll have the Cole Anthony role going into next season. I still believe in his abilities.

[Knightro]

I think it would be one thing if Suggs had just sucked all year.

But quite literally earlier this season when Fultz and Anthony were out Suggs started at point guard and looked decent.

13.7 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 5.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.6 BPG on a 53.4 TS% in 12 games with better overall defense than Fultz or Anthony. Not incredible numbers or anything, but solid enough for a 2nd year guy who has been dealing with injuries.

Now it's perfectly fair and completely accurate to say that Suggs looks god awful in this current sporadic minutes off-ball bench SG role he's in. But it's beyond clear at this point his value as a offensive player is directly tied to him being able to play point guard.

[eyriq]

I think it would be one thing if Suggs had just sucked all year.

But quite literally earlier this season when Fultz and Anthony were out Suggs started at point guard and looked decent.

13.7 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 5.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.6 BPG on a 53.4 TS% in 12 games with better overall defense than Fultz or Anthony. Not incredible numbers or anything, but solid enough for a 2nd year guy who has been dealing with injuries.

Now it's perfectly fair and completely accurate to say that Suggs looks god awful in this current sporadic minutes off-ball bench SG role he's in. But it's beyond clear at this point his value as a offensive player is directly tied to him being able to play point guard.

What am I missing regarding him not being able to play SG? Does the fact that he can't shoot play-in there?

[thelead]

I think it would be one thing if Suggs had just sucked all year.

But quite literally earlier this season when Fultz and Anthony were out Suggs started at point guard and looked decent.

13.7 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 5.7 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.6 BPG on a 53.4 TS% in 12 games with better overall defense than Fultz or Anthony. Not incredible numbers or anything, but solid enough for a 2nd year guy who has been dealing with injuries.

Now it's perfectly fair and completely accurate to say that Suggs looks god awful in this current sporadic minutes off-ball bench SG role he's in. But it's beyond clear at this point his value as a offensive player is directly tied to him being able to play point guard.

What am I missing regarding him not being able to play SG? Does the fact that he can't shoot play-in there?

He's a below average, but not god awful, shooter off the dribble. He cannot shoot spot up shots (like Shaq bad ). He is not a SG.

[Knightro]

What am I missing regarding him not being able to play SG? Does the fact that he can't shoot play-in there?

Thus far in his career Suggs has been MASSIVELY better shooting off dribble compared to catch-and-shoot. He's been one of the worst players in the NBA on catch and shoot.

I have to assume Suggs grew up as one of the better players among his peers and generally always had the ball as he came of age.

[zaymon]

What am I missing regarding him not being able to play SG? Does the fact that he can't shoot play-in there?

Thus far in his career Suggs has been MASSIVELY better shooting off dribble compared to catch-and-shoot. He's been one of the worst players in the NBA on catch and shoot.

I have to assume Suggs grew up as one of the better players among his peers and generally always had the ball as he came of age.

Until he polishes his catch and shoot he should be used as a point guard and i think his defense makes it worth it. Anthony is a lost cause and Fultz makes a lot of fuss but is actually a bad defender.

[pepe1991]

Problem with Suggs at PG is ... he can't handle the ball well nor his playmaking is all that good.

His playstyle is too wild, too out of control for PG. He, since he arived in nba, looks like zeroBBIQ Westbrook, who, himself, isn't very advanced basketball mind. He crushes into people, attacks closed lines, jumps in air without any purpose. Just wild. That also leads to lot of minor injuries.

[Knightro]

Problem with Suggs at PG is ... he can't handle the ball well nor his playmaking is all that good.

His playstyle is too wild, too out of control for PG. He, since he arived in nba, looks like zeroBBIQ Westbrook, who, himself, isn't very advanced basketball mind. He crushes into people, attacks closed lines, jumps in air without any purpose. Just wild. That also leads to lot of minor injuries.

Therein lies the ultimate problem.

Suggs is clearly best served to play PG... only it's not like he's *great* at it or anything.

Starting him and playing him 30 MPG ahead of Fultz and Anthony who have both clearly been better... it feels like you're asking for trouble with that. The team very likely won't be very good and the players certainly can see which guys are better right now (remember players don't tank).

[VFX]

Problem with Suggs at PG is ... he can't handle the ball well nor his playmaking is all that good.

His playstyle is too wild, too out of control for PG. He, since he arived in nba, looks like zeroBBIQ Westbrook, who, himself, isn't very advanced basketball mind. He crushes into people, attacks closed lines, jumps in air without any purpose. Just wild. That also leads to lot of minor injuries.

Therein lies the ultimate problem.

Suggs is clearly best served to play PG... only it's not like he's *great* at it or anything.

Starting him and playing him 30 MPG ahead of Fultz and Anthony who have both clearly been better... it feels like you're asking for trouble with that. The team very likely won't be very good and the players certainly can see which guys are better right now (remember players don't tank).

Right, so what do you do?

Common sense says they play for the short-term because winning games now means something (?) even though a majority of the guys on this roster won’t be here anyway and Paolo/Franz already play a ton of minutes.

So unless a move is made Suggs value will ultimately “tank” because playing Fultz +28mpg, while still losing most games, is better in the short term than when everything actually matters a few years from now.

It’s basically the same situation that happened with Oladipo, Elfrid, and Fournier. They prioritized the short term and got rid of the more valuable player to “balance” the roster.

[Knightro]

Problem with Suggs at PG is ... he can't handle the ball well nor his playmaking is all that good.

His playstyle is too wild, too out of control for PG. He, since he arived in nba, looks like zeroBBIQ Westbrook, who, himself, isn't very advanced basketball mind. He crushes into people, attacks closed lines, jumps in air without any purpose. Just wild. That also leads to lot of minor injuries.

Therein lies the ultimate problem.

Suggs is clearly best served to play PG... only it's not like he's *great* at it or anything.

Starting him and playing him 30 MPG ahead of Fultz and Anthony who have both clearly been better... it feels like you're asking for trouble with that. The team very likely won't be very good and the players certainly can see which guys are better right now (remember players don't tank).

Right, so what do you do?

Common sense says they play for the short-term because winning games now means something (?) even though a majority of the guys on this roster won’t be here anyway and Paolo/Franz already play a ton of minutes.

So unless a move is made Suggs value will ultimately “tank” because playing Fultz +28mpg, while still losing most games, is better in the short term than when everything actually matters a few years from now.

It’s basically the same situation that happened with Oladipo, Elfrid, and Fournier. They prioritized the short term and got rid of the more valuable player to “balance” the roster.

I get what you're saying.

But I think the argument the Magic's front office (not me) would make back to you is that Fultz is only 24 and Anthony is only 22, so it's not like they're playing some low ceiling, no future 35 year old veteran over Suggs.

I'd imagine they'd make the case - right or wrong - that Fultz and Anthony have just as much chance to be the long-term PG for this team as Suggs does.

The idea of Suggs playing 30 MPG, Fultz being his 18 MPG backup and Anthony being off the roster is great fan fantasy stuff, but it's not tethered in reality (even if it should be!).

[VFX]

Therein lies the ultimate problem.

Suggs is clearly best served to play PG... only it's not like he's *great* at it or anything.

Starting him and playing him 30 MPG ahead of Fultz and Anthony who have both clearly been better... it feels like you're asking for trouble with that. The team very likely won't be very good and the players certainly can see which guys are better right now (remember players don't tank).

Right, so what do you do?

Common sense says they play for the short-term because winning games now means something (?) even though a majority of the guys on this roster won’t be here anyway and Paolo/Franz already play a ton of minutes.

So unless a move is made Suggs value will ultimately “tank” because playing Fultz +28mpg, while still losing most games, is better in the short term than when everything actually matters a few years from now.

It’s basically the same situation that happened with Oladipo, Elfrid, and Fournier. They prioritized the short term and got rid of the more valuable player to “balance” the roster.

I get what you're saying.

But I think the argument the Magic's front office (not me) would make back to you is that Fultz is only 24 and Anthony is only 22, so it's not like they're playing some low ceiling, no future 35 year old veteran over Suggs.

I'd imagine they'd make the case - right or wrong - that Fultz and Anthony have just as much chance to be the long-term PG for this team as Suggs does.

The idea of Suggs playing 30 MPG, Fultz being his 18 MPG backup and Anthony being off the roster is great fan fantasy stuff, but it's not tethered in reality (even if it should be!).

Right, so a move needs to be made. This was kind of what I was talking about with free agency and the draft. In reality they are not going to add FVV and another drafted guard to the roster with the minute distribution the way it is currently.

I’m not expecting them to give Suggs all of these minutes because that’s not how it works. Mosely’s job is to win games. He’s not going to sacrifice that for the sake of 2 years down the road when he’s likely not here anymore.

[Knightro]

Right, so a move needs to be made. This was kind of what I was talking about with free agency and the draft. In reality they are not going to add FVV and another drafted guard to the roster with the minute distribution the way it is currently.

I’m not expecting them to give Suggs all of these minutes because that’s not how it works. Mosely’s job is to win games. He’s not going to sacrifice that for the sake of 2 years down the road when he’s likely not here anymore.

Well I disagree with the FVV part because he's clearly significantly better than all three incumbent guards, which changes the equation.

If he was on their level, then sure. No need to add a 4th guy at the same caliber to what you already have.

But he's way better and would start.

And a guard like Keyonte George may have to just play limited-ish minutes as a rookie until other guys are out of the way and that's ok.

[VFX]

Right, so a move needs to be made. This was kind of what I was talking about with free agency and the draft. In reality they are not going to add FVV and another drafted guard to the roster with the minute distribution the way it is currently.

I’m not expecting them to give Suggs all of these minutes because that’s not how it works. Mosely’s job is to win games. He’s not going to sacrifice that for the sake of 2 years down the road when he’s likely not here anymore.

Well I disagree with the FVV part because he's clearly significantly better than all three incumbent guards, which changes the equation.

If he was on their level, then sure. No need to add a 4th guy at the same caliber to what you already have.

But he's way better and would start.

And a guard like Keyonte George may have to just play limited-ish minutes as a rookie until other guys are out of the way and that's ok.

I’m not disagreeing that FVV isn’t the best guard in that situation.

The point I’m making is that drafting/signing more players needing minutes to grow doesn’t make sense if you already can’t give players on the current roster needed minutes.

This is why I talk about “fit” when it comes to teams that draft players. Yes, you take bpa if you are picking a consensus pick. However, you are not drafting “bpa” if that player isn’t getting minutes and makes no sense for the rest of your roster. Again, something we’ve disagreed about (the Bamba pick).

Back to the point. If the front office feels better about giving $17m to Fultz, to be a bottom 5 starting point guard on a bottom 5 team in the east, then that’s on them. If developing him makes more sense than Suggs, then Suggs should be moved like Oladipo. I just don’t want to hear a lot of crying from people when it comes back to haunt Orlando when Fultz / Cole can’t be played in a playoff situation because both can be exposed for their shortcomings and they chose the wrong guards to invest in.

[89Magicfan]

You don’t trade Suggs right now unless it’s for a Donovan Mitchell like deal.

[Knightro]

I’m not disagreeing that FVV isn’t the best guard in that situation.

The point I’m making is that drafting/signing more players needing minutes to grow doesn’t make sense if you already can’t give players on the current roster needed minutes.

This is why I talk about “fit” when it comes to teams that draft players. Yes, you take bpa if you are picking a consensus pick. However, you are not drafting “bpa” if that player isn’t getting minutes and makes no sense for the rest of your roster. Again, something we’ve disagreed about (the Bamba pick).

Back to the point. If the front office feels better about giving $17m to Fultz, to be a bottom 5 starting point guard on a bottom 5 team in the east, then that’s on them. If developing him makes more sense than Suggs, then Suggs should be moved like Oladipo. I just don’t want to hear a lot of crying from people when it comes back to haunt Orlando when Fultz / Cole can’t be played in a playoff situation because both can be exposed for their shortcomings and they chose the wrong guards to invest in.

I really think it just depends on what the goal is for next season. If it's to win as much as they can, then they should be aggressive in acquiring veteran talent to supplement the good young building blocks they already have.

FVV specifically for me is a unique case because I think he can play PG or SG, which means he could theoretically fit next to Fultz, Suggs or a top 2023 draft pick. I don't think he's pigeon holed into one role necessarily which is a good thing.

I also personally don't have any issue with one or even both of the 2023 lotto picks not playing huge minutes as rookies.... provided the team is winning without them playing a lot. Ross and Harris can be free agents after this season. Fultz and Anthony are free agents after next season.

The roster is inevitably going to change regardless.

[JoshuaPotter]

Hi guys, games like this will happen. I am not sure what to make of it as to me its more about the Paulo slump then anything else. IE our guard rotation is the same argument in circles with a consensus around "needing to get better somehow."

Still enjoying the ride, best magic basketball I have seen in years hands down. Lots of good points being made. As good as we are witnessing from Franz I would like to hopefully see an equal jump from Paulo next year (but maybe that would be like expecting an MVP candidate so maybe unrealistic). I like that teams are pushing him hard though. My hope is that he evolves from all this pressure and Franz continues to punish as he is no doubt the better ball handler today.

[jezzerinho]

Until we have at least NBA average spacing, its going to be tough sledding for Paolo, no matter what he does to his body.

Lack of good halfcourt offense, which we experience from Fultz and Suggs, makes things that much harder for big lumps like Paolo who wont thrive in transition.

All in all, the best thing you can do to help Paolo is give defences other headaches to focus on that are as far away from PB as possible. Right now it's all happening in the paint.

[Nyce_1]

Mose dunce cap.....you take the starters out watch the momentum slip away....then you bring the starters back too late knowing that we don't score in bunches....

It's 101 on how to tank without looking like we're tanking.

I actually think there's something to this.

I think Mosley intentionally doesn't pull every single lever he could pull every single night to grind out wins.

The way I see it. The front office is approaching games like this...

If they win, great.

But if they lose, also great.

And Mosley's following their orders.

This.

[tooler]

As good as we are witnessing from Franz I would like to hopefully see an equal jump from Paulo next year (but maybe that would be like expecting an MVP candidate so maybe unrealistic).

We shouldn't set our hearts on this. Franz is the exception, not the rule. Most sophomores haven't taken a leap, at least across the entire season. They're showing flashes. No reason to think the same won't happen to Paolo. I wouldn't be surprised if Franz scores more points than him next season. Or even this season!

Year 3 is the important one. Hopefully we're already winning playoff games by then.

[basketballRob]

Paolo will have a good game today. He seems to perform better in the biggest games and I'd imagine this will be the bigger crowd of the year at Amway.

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