Dutchball97 wrote:
The thing is that people here don't really use any of those arguments. It's things like his 09 season being the biggest statistical outlier ever, his 2016 ring being the biggest upset, his prime length being unprecedented even compared to someone like Kareem and his overall career value being the highest.
I prefer MJ because despite all that MJ looks better when surrounded by good talent than LeBron and I value ceiling raising more than floor raising, the latter also being an important factor for LeBron breaking statistical records in 09 in the first place. MJ was also more consistent during his prime. He faced significantly tougher competition in his conference as well. Plenty of reasons to have MJ over LeBron imo but if you feel like you have to try and devalue LeBron's accomplishments to make an argument for MJ, you're going about it the wrong way.
i don't consider his 2016 ring as the biggest upset. the warriors win total was inflated. they gunned for it. truly great teams coast parts of the season because they know health is more important for the playoffs. the durant warriors were far superior and won only 58 games in 2018. that team would smoke the 2016 warriors. it wouldn't even go to 7 games. the 73 win total ran down curry, iggy and bogut and they weren't quite the same for the finals. while the cavs had seemingly the better big 3 anyway. lebron sacrificed league mvps doing his typical coasting marathon semi load management strategy after the celtics blew it up. he knew home court advantage wasn't as important. nobody talks about them beating the 60 win hawks for a reason.
if you ignore all of this and draymonds suspension then its lebrons only real title tbh. i don't count the miami ring chasing or the bubble.
how can anyone with just 1 real title compare to a guy with 6 or even kobe who has 2 ( 4 if you count him as a co-leader for 2001 and 2002 )
i know this place is more about analytics and less about proving yourself but the way the game has been going lately everyone and their dog can put up all time PER seasons.
my reason for putting MJ over Lebron is more based on him being able to get the job done when its expected. the only time MJ lost was when he was meant to. when his teams weren't good enough. when he got a sidekick and had a full season he won every time basically. while lebron faltered in 2011 and 2014. and should have in 2013 if not for ray allen. then the 2006 bronze disaster and theres just too many times he was meant to win as the best player with the best team but couldn't.
even 2009 was kind of a let down. he didn't have a great sidekick but neither did dwight howard. he kind of ruined our chance at seeing a kobe vs lebron finals. just too many let downs for me to be considered the goat. the ring chasing is a secondary reason and possible PED usage is 3rd. era is 4th. the list goes on and on