The case for Curry and Giannis in the All-Time Top 10

[Dutchball97]

Curry missed time that year as well. So you excuse it when Oscar misses time but not curry.

They were on just under a 50 win pace when he played.

Double standards again.

Buddy pal you're only digging yourself and your credibility a bigger hole. It's the entire point that it's a double standard but you've got the perpetrator the wrong way around. Sure Oscar missed the play-offs but I'm just showing Curry did as well while still having more help than Oscar. Curry was fortunate he was only in such a situation for 1 season but how can you not see that team context matters? You think Oscar would've missed 3 post-seasons straight if he had Curry's help? No way. Similarly Curry wouldn't have done much more, if more at all, with the supporting casts Oscar had to deal with especially in the late 60s. Besides that what's more impactful? Missing 15 games in a league where playing every game is the standard or missing 9 games in a league where half the star players miss that many games for rest alone?

You didn’t answer my previous question, how much did you see Oscar play live? Because unless your 60-70 years old then I doubt you know how Oscar would have dealt with it either.

Don’t particularly care what you think of credibility when you state that curry is equal to Reggie, terrible take.

I did not see Oscar play live. I'm unsure why that means Curry has to be better by default though. Do you place Curry over Russell and Wilt too? How about Kareem?

I also never asked you for your opinion but you wanted to cry about double standards, while not even getting the point I was arguing against a double standard of Curry getting a pass where Oscar didn't. I'm also not saying Curry is equal to Reggie, that shows a lack of reading comprehension on your part once again.

[DimesandKnicks]

I think he's talking about in terms of individual teams, in which case he has a valid argument, as the 2017 are arguably the greatest team ever assembled.

I strongly advise not taking anything WarriorGM says seriously. You're talking to a guy who thinks the 2015 Warriors had a weak supporting cast, and his logic here is laughably bad.

With all of that said, Curry's a top ten player of all time. In fact I have him firmly at the number 10 spot as of today. I think he's more than earned that spot too with the incredible body of work he's had and the legacy he's built for himself.

Giannis is not there yet. Can he get there? It kind of feels like he's in a similar situation that LeBron was in when he returned to Cleveland where the expectation was a dynasty, but Curry overshadowed him with what was going on in Golden State, that is until LeBron's Cavs pulled off the 3-1 comeback and made the rest of the world remember who the best player in the world really was. Jokic has overshadowed Giannis and it feels like the Bucks aren't the top dogs in the East anymore. Can that change? Sure, but I'm not liking their chances. They're an aging team and one of their core members is having nagging injury problems.

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors. It really does amaze me how so many posters neglect the fact that basketball is a team sport.

Please do explain how I’m neglecting the team aspect of this sport? And while you’re at it, please do explain how Giannis still winning with the Warriors (he’s most definitely not winning in 2022) proves anything?

Pairing Giannis with Klay vs pairing Steph with Kris Middleton? Adding an MVP and DPOY w another DPOY. Death line up now becomes Giannis, Green, Iggy, Klay and a shooter at pg? My lorddd. Imagine Giannis pushing the break after pulling a defensive rebound instead of Green.

Or u could have Lopez, Portis, Holiday, Steph and Middleton. Defense will always always win championships.

[DimesandKnicks]

Funny how you need to create imaginary scenarios when there are real ones. Why wouldn't Curry win with the Bucks? He has already won with teams that were two and three years removed from 15-win and 23-win seasons respectively. It really does amaze me that people ignore that Curry's accomplishments are such outliers than they have rarely been emulated by anyone given any other group of teammates.

Because Curry has played on really good teams. Teams so good he was only deemed the most impactful player in the finals once. He doesn’t win a championship with Bucks, and people putting him over Kobe now?!! He doesn’t win championships on those Gasoline Bynum Odom teams either.

The Warriors accomplishments*

I’m not sure why people having him over Kobe surprises you. At this point I don’t really think Kobe has an argument over Steph.

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

[DimesandKnicks]

I think it should actually be about who the best players are. Your legacy is highly dependent on what organization you end up on. And fans ask why guys are demanding trades.

wow. i totally disagree. first of all, to some degree these goats all have to perform and performance is measured by numbers....that's sports. in a sense the top 100 players ALL bring numbers. you dont get in if you are a 7/8/6 31%/72% on a losing team your whole life. the very nature of a TEAM sport dictates you melding with others. and "BEST" cannot truly be compared across eras. it becomes a bias dictated by personal standards

i disagree with you because legacy is not numbers based. it is how you change the game. it is what you leave behind

for instance, lew alcindor changed the dunk rule in college ball not because he played on the bruins. he made winners out of every team he played with. he was a first in many areas

oscar was the first to give us a glimpse of what "skillset" was because he commanded so may skills we had to take notice

before drJ, the dunk was just a way to score 100% of the time when a players was close to the basket. just watch how players dunked before him. all they did was throw the ball down. actually i think the first big time dunker was the totally overlooked gus johnson. after the dr players used the dunk as their own personal signature

and on and on and on,,,but let's FIRST remind ourselves that you don't get noticed if you don't have numbers and that in a team sport you're no island. i am also giving props to those who gave the game it's building blocks. there is no kobe w/o michael. there is no michael w/o the dr, thompson, baylor, m. johnson. lebron is an accumulation of 50 years of basketball,,,,oscar was an accumulation of,,,,,5YRS???

so if everything has some sort of subjective or discretionary bias and if numbers can be twisted to your taste, what is the LEAST depedent on them. i say legacy because legacy is undeniable imo. you cannot take away what these guys gave to the game

Agree to disagree. A top players list should reflect the combination of talent and availability.

[WarriorGM]

Because Curry has played on really good teams. Teams so good he was only deemed the most impactful player in the finals once. He doesn’t win a championship with Bucks, and people putting him over Kobe now?!! He doesn’t win championships on those Gasoline Bynum Odom teams either.

The Warriors accomplishments*

I’m not sure why people having him over Kobe surprises you. At this point I don’t really think Kobe has an argument over Steph.

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

Steph Curry doesn’t win a championship with Giannis Bucks and Giannis wins championships w Steph’s Warriors. It really does amaze me how so many posters neglect the fact that basketball is a team sport.

Please do explain how I’m neglecting the team aspect of this sport? And while you’re at it, please do explain how Giannis still winning with the Warriors (he’s most definitely not winning in 2022) proves anything?

Pairing Giannis with Klay vs pairing Steph with Kris Middleton? Adding an MVP and DPOY w another DPOY. Death line up now becomes Giannis, Green, Iggy, Klay and a shooter at pg? My lorddd. Imagine Giannis pushing the break after pulling a defensive rebound instead of Green.

Or u could have Lopez, Portis, Holiday, Steph and Middleton. Defense will always always win championships.

I have reservations that the Warriors with Giannis subbed in for Curry has enough offense to be viable. I have no such worries with the Bucks with Curry subbed in.

[DimesandKnicks]

I’m not sure why people having him over Kobe surprises you. At this point I don’t really think Kobe has an argument over Steph.

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

Thanks for making my point, minus it being easier to build elite teams around a defensive liability which makes absolutely no sense

[Dutchball97]

I’m not sure why people having him over Kobe surprises you. At this point I don’t really think Kobe has an argument over Steph.

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

It's easier to build defense around Curry because he plays with Dray. Replace Curry and Kobe straight up and the Warriors get better defensively, while the Lakers get worse.

[DimesandKnicks]

I’m not sure why people having him over Kobe surprises you. At this point I don’t really think Kobe has an argument over Steph.

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

Please do explain how I’m neglecting the team aspect of this sport? And while you’re at it, please do explain how Giannis still winning with the Warriors (he’s most definitely not winning in 2022) proves anything?

Pairing Giannis with Klay vs pairing Steph with Kris Middleton? Adding an MVP and DPOY w another DPOY. Death line up now becomes Giannis, Green, Iggy, Klay and a shooter at pg? My lorddd. Imagine Giannis pushing the break after pulling a defensive rebound instead of Green.

Or u could have Lopez, Portis, Holiday, Steph and Middleton. Defense will always always win championships.

I have reservations that the Warriors with Giannis subbed in for Curry has enough offense to be viable. I have no such worries with the Bucks with Curry subbed in.

Giannis averaged 30 in the last two playoff series. What are your reservations about the Bucks defensively losing a DPOY? Like I said, all many of u posters care about is offense.

[WarriorGM]

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

Thanks for making my point, minus it being easier to build elite teams around a defensive liability which makes absolutely no sense

There is not much evidence that Curry is much of a defensive liability. We've had playoffs series at the highest level where LeBron and Harden repeatedly targeted and went iso on Curry. They ended up attacking other players. If you cannot win doing that how much of a liability is he really?

Curry provides offense. In most other situations one must be wary of playing a player such as Draymond who isn't much of an offensive threat but Curry maximizes Draymond's gifts on the offensive end. He does that as well with other strong defensive but weak offensive players. Iguodala and Gary Payton II are other examples. The Warriors being a strong defensive team being built around Curry is no accident. Nor is Curry just a passive piece. He is what makes it possible.

[WarriorGM]

Because realgm posters don’t really care about defense. One guy was a perennial all nba defender and at worst and above average defender.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

Pairing Giannis with Klay vs pairing Steph with Kris Middleton? Adding an MVP and DPOY w another DPOY. Death line up now becomes Giannis, Green, Iggy, Klay and a shooter at pg? My lorddd. Imagine Giannis pushing the break after pulling a defensive rebound instead of Green.

Or u could have Lopez, Portis, Holiday, Steph and Middleton. Defense will always always win championships.

I have reservations that the Warriors with Giannis subbed in for Curry has enough offense to be viable. I have no such worries with the Bucks with Curry subbed in.

Giannis averaged 30 in the last two playoff series. What are your reservations about the Bucks defensively losing a DPOY? Like I said, all many of u posters care about is offense.

Giannis can probably match Curry's scoring. I doubt he can match Curry's playmaking.

Jrue is a strong defensive guard maybe even stronger than Klay especially after the injuries. Lopez is probably a better solid big than the Warriors have had. Don't really know much about Middleton defensively but I presume he is above average. Not many worries really.

[bstein14]

If you're talking about entire NBA careers, Giannis clearly isn't a top 10 players at this point. If you're talking about 5 year peaks of NBA players.... as far as who had the highest/best prime over a 5 year span. He's essentially been a 30, 12 and 6 player with great D and two MVPs and a championship in that span. Giannis probably has a solid argument for what he's done in his last 5 seasons as being a top 10 peak/prime player of all time. He's been an elite rebounder, elite scorer, and elite defensive player. He's honestly probably got a solid case that his impact on defense is more so than Gobert's who struggles with the lateral quickness to defend on pick and rolls and on the perimeter where Giannis has the closing speed that makes him a much more versatile defender in the 3 point era.

Even though he's not top 10 of all-time, for me Giannis has passed a lot of the 2000s and 90s greats like Barkley, Dirk, Malone, KG, David Robinson, etc. Giannis is top 15 for me right now without question.

[DimesandKnicks]

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.




I have reservations that the Warriors with Giannis subbed in for Curry has enough offense to be viable. I have no such worries with the Bucks with Curry subbed in.

Giannis averaged 30 in the last two playoff series. What are your reservations about the Bucks defensively losing a DPOY? Like I said, all many of u posters care about is offense.

Giannis can probably match Curry's scoring. I doubt he can match Curry's playmaking.

Jrue is a strong defensive guard maybe even stronger than Klay especially after the injuries. Lopez is probably a better solid big than the Warriors have had. Don't really know much about Middleton defensively but I presume he is above average. Not many worries really.

Giannis averages one less assist than Curry. Can curry match Giannis rebounding? Or defense? These are rhetorical questions

[DimesandKnicks]

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.




I have reservations that the Warriors with Giannis subbed in for Curry has enough offense to be viable. I have no such worries with the Bucks with Curry subbed in.

Giannis averaged 30 in the last two playoff series. What are your reservations about the Bucks defensively losing a DPOY? Like I said, all many of u posters care about is offense.

Giannis can probably match Curry's scoring. I doubt he can match Curry's playmaking.

Jrue is a strong defensive guard maybe even stronger than Klay especially after the injuries. Lopez is probably a better solid big than the Warriors have had. Don't really know much about Middleton defensively but I presume he is above average. Not many worries really.

Andrew Bogut all NBA in 2015, Draymond Green DPOY

[DimesandKnicks]

Sorry to burst your bubble but Curry has been on more elite defensive teams than Kobe. It's seems easier to build such elite defensive teams around Curry.

Thanks for making my point, minus it being easier to build elite teams around a defensive liability which makes absolutely no sense

There is not much evidence that Curry is much of a defensive liability. We've had playoffs series at the highest level where LeBron and Harden repeatedly targeted and went iso on Curry. They ended up attacking other players. If you cannot win doing that how much of a liability is he really?

Curry provides offense. In most other situations one must be wary of playing a player such as Draymond who isn't much of an offensive threat but Curry maximizes Draymond's gifts on the offensive end. He does that as well with other strong defensive but weak offensive players. Iguodala and Gary Payton II are other examples. The Warriors being a strong defensive team being built around Curry is no accident. Nor is Curry just a passive piece. He is what makes it possible.

Now your just saying words

[WarriorGM]

Giannis averaged 30 in the last two playoff series. What are your reservations about the Bucks defensively losing a DPOY? Like I said, all many of u posters care about is offense.

Giannis can probably match Curry's scoring. I doubt he can match Curry's playmaking.

Jrue is a strong defensive guard maybe even stronger than Klay especially after the injuries. Lopez is probably a better solid big than the Warriors have had. Don't really know much about Middleton defensively but I presume he is above average. Not many worries really.

Giannis averages one less assist than Curry. Can curry match Giannis rebounding? Or defense? These are rhetorical questions

If you think it is Curry's box score assists that make up the main portion of his playmaking then you don't understand Curry's playmaking at all.

Andrew Bogut all NBA in 2015, Draymond Green DPOY

I can already hear the complaints about there not being enough perimeter shooting to keep defenses honest. Try opening up a Lakers thread and seeing Lakers fans moaning about how LeBron doesn't have enough help for an idea of what I'm talking about.

Now your just saying words

No that's just what spending time observing the Warriors has revealed.

[DB23]

Buddy pal you're only digging yourself and your credibility a bigger hole. It's the entire point that it's a double standard but you've got the perpetrator the wrong way around. Sure Oscar missed the play-offs but I'm just showing Curry did as well while still having more help than Oscar. Curry was fortunate he was only in such a situation for 1 season but how can you not see that team context matters? You think Oscar would've missed 3 post-seasons straight if he had Curry's help? No way. Similarly Curry wouldn't have done much more, if more at all, with the supporting casts Oscar had to deal with especially in the late 60s. Besides that what's more impactful? Missing 15 games in a league where playing every game is the standard or missing 9 games in a league where half the star players miss that many games for rest alone?

You didn’t answer my previous question, how much did you see Oscar play live? Because unless your 60-70 years old then I doubt you know how Oscar would have dealt with it either.

Don’t particularly care what you think of credibility when you state that curry is equal to Reggie, terrible take.

I did not see Oscar play live. I'm unsure why that means Curry has to be better by default though. Do you place Curry over Russell and Wilt too? How about Kareem?

I also never asked you for your opinion but you wanted to cry about double standards, while not even getting the point I was arguing against a double standard of Curry getting a pass where Oscar didn't. I'm also not saying Curry is equal to Reggie, that shows a lack of reading comprehension on your part once again.

You make a point about reading comprehension then fail at the first hurdle. I never said it made him a better player by default, I haven’t seen enough of Oscar to judge except to say that by achievements, curry has him by a wide margin.

You are the one who made a claim that Oscar is better, so on what basis do you make that claim if you never saw him play? B-ball reference?

[Vox Populi]

There is not much evidence that Curry is much of a defensive liability. We've had playoffs series at the highest level where LeBron and Harden repeatedly targeted and went iso on Curry. They ended up attacking other players. If you cannot win doing that how much of a liability is he really?

Are you perhaps, giving credit for Iguodala's and Klay's defense on Lebron and Harden to Curry there?

[WarriorGM]

There is not much evidence that Curry is much of a defensive liability. We've had playoffs series at the highest level where LeBron and Harden repeatedly targeted and went iso on Curry. They ended up attacking other players. If you cannot win doing that how much of a liability is he really?

Are you perhaps, giving credit for Iguodala's and Klay's defense on Lebron and Harden to Curry there?

In the modern game switching has become the norm. You want to go after who you think is the weakest defender on the team?

SWITCH!

Curry was targeted over and over and over by the likes of LeBron and Harden who are as far as I can tell among the greatest iso attackers of this era. They lost doing that.

Did Curry's teammates help contain damage? Sure. But Curry had to hold his ground or funnel the attacker away too and his teammates' defense can shine because Curry makes them more viable on the other end.

If stacking a team with defensive pieces was easy to win with it would be done more.

The fact remains Curry has been on more top defensive teams than just about any of the recent top players aside from Kawhi and maybe Giannis.

[DimesandKnicks]

Giannis can probably match Curry's scoring. I doubt he can match Curry's playmaking.

Jrue is a strong defensive guard maybe even stronger than Klay especially after the injuries. Lopez is probably a better solid big than the Warriors have had. Don't really know much about Middleton defensively but I presume he is above average. Not many worries really.

Giannis averages one less assist than Curry. Can curry match Giannis rebounding? Or defense? These are rhetorical questions

If you think it is Curry's box score assists that make up the main portion of his playmaking then you don't understand Curry's playmaking at all.

Andrew Bogut all NBA in 2015, Draymond Green DPOY

I can already hear the complaints about there not being enough perimeter shooting to keep defenses honest. Try opening up a Lakers thread and seeing Lakers fans moaning about how LeBron doesn't have enough help for an idea of what I'm talking about.

Now your just saying words

No that's just what spending time observing the Warriors has revealed.

Play making is the ability to directly create a shot for yourself or an assist to a teammate. Being able to suck in offenses and open up opportunities for other teammates while impactful isn’t playmaking. That’s like saying being a good screener makes someone a good playmaker. And if that’s your version of playmaking then Klay Thompson can take over that responsibility. Steph’s “playmaking” by your definition is also impacted by the gravity it takes to keep tabs on who’s probably the second greatest scoring in NBA history.

Giannis is ability to create a drive to the basket and make the right pass, I’d argue makes him a better playmaker then Curry.

Who are the DPOY’s or all nba defenders Lebron played with? You gave him him an additional superstar playmaker and he gives u a championship.

[DimesandKnicks]

There is not much evidence that Curry is much of a defensive liability. We've had playoffs series at the highest level where LeBron and Harden repeatedly targeted and went iso on Curry. They ended up attacking other players. If you cannot win doing that how much of a liability is he really?

Are you perhaps, giving credit for Iguodala's and Klay's defense on Lebron and Harden to Curry there?

In the modern game switching has become the norm. You want to go after who you think is the weakest defender on the team?

SWITCH!

Curry was targeted over and over and over by the likes of LeBron and Harden who are as far as I can tell among the greatest iso attackers of this era. They lost doing that.

Did Curry's teammates help contain damage? Sure. But Curry had to hold his ground or funnel the attacker away too and his teammates' defense can shine because Curry makes them more viable on the other end.

If stacking a team with defensive pieces was easy to win with it would be done more.

The fact remains Curry has been on more top defensive teams than just about any of the recent top players aside from Kawhi and maybe Giannis.

Plain babble, just words that make no sense. The pants yellow five from six purple fingers. That’s what your arguments read as.