OhayoKD wrote:McBubbles wrote:
I think Ben Taylor was a lot of people's first introduction into heavy player analysis via scouting and advanced metrics. He scratched that itch for deeper knowledge that a lot of us were looking for, and so instinctively you take his word for things. But then as one learns more about the game, enough to form their own conclusions, you realise that some of Ben's are sorta wack lol.
I remember when I had the epiphany that sometimes Ben's idea of "portable" can be code for "is capable of less"
If you gave Gobert Magic's ball handling and passing skills, he'd be in the GOAT conversation. He'd also be exponentially less portable in Ben's eyes. If there are situations in which a player becoming much better also makes them less portable then who really cares about portability, how is it valuable?
Imo portability is mostly irrelevant for superstars because teams are meant to build around them in the first place. Portability is extremely valuable for role players however so they don't mess up and detract from the impact of the best players, I.E. I don't give a damn if Lebron has to take the ball out of Lance Stephenson or Westbrick's hands in order to maximise his impact. I do give a damn about the reverse.
Portability imo should be measured by the resilience of your impact when put in different situations, not by how little people have to adjust their game to fit in with you.
Agree with this though I don't think it only has potential application with non-stars. While it may not necessarily be that important for a Lebron or Kareem who can lead contenders with little. For players like durant or westbrook(peak) you are probably going to need another superstar or near superstar to compete so port has some relevance there. Westbrook was probably a more valuable playoff player than durant to OKC at his apex but I think KD's "resiliency in different" situations offers him a advantage in some situations.
I do have some quibbles with some of your counter-examples.MJ, despite incredible box scores was not as impactful as you'd think for a player in the GOAT conversation prior to playing in the triangle offence.
I'd say MJ was probably at his most impactful in 1988. And at least, by the impact stuff we have(partial rapm, playoff on/off) there's a downward trend in his influence from 88 onward. I guess if you focused in on offensive impact you could extrapolate a rise based on increased box-impact hybrids but, that may well just be a result of playing weaker versions of the defenses he ran into earlier with better help.
My bad, for every player I mentioned (besides KG) I should have specified that I was focusing on offensive portability.
Speaking of which...Outside the 2017 post-season, KD, despite being in the most optimal situation in NBA history didn't have a particularly noticeable impact on the Warriors offence.
...sure, but that's probably a more by-product of KD clashing with Kerr rather than KD's skillset not being sufficient for sustaining impact..
https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-durant-steve-kerr-odds-much-passing-warriors-004853603.html
I'm not saying we shouldn't hold it against a KD or whoever when they refuse to play the way that makes sense for them, but that's different from a player with the specific skills KD has not getting some sort of boost in certain situations relative to comparably valuable guys.
Hmm. I see your point, but:
1. If we're talking about the portability of certain player archetypes then it's irrelevant, but if we're talking about the portability of a player in general then I think BBIQ and character should factor into the discussion, in which case him clashing with Kerr after a single season shouldn't be discounted.
2. Following on from archetypes, I guess it depends if you're focusing on a players skill set or if you're focusing on a players play-style. KD's skill-set doesn't preclude him from maintaining his impact in varying situations, but his preferred play-style and propensity for isolation play could.
Also, complete aside, what's the latest year span for PI-RAPM data that we have, and where could one access it?
. Man's interrupted his free throw routine lmao
