Greater Accomplishment: Lebron's 4 or Duncan's 5?

[PedroFlu]

This place is infested with haters lol.

People are jealous as ****. Considering where he started from (circunstances from childhood), LeBron is probably the most successful player ever, by a country mile.

[Blame Rasho]

It is funny seeing all the Lebron stand hissy fits in this thread.

[DoctorX]

It is funny seeing all the Lebron stand hissy fits in this thread.

For me it's the blatant lies they spew to discredit Duncan's achievements which is laughable. Such as saying Duncan was not the best player on the '07 team when stats clearly show he was or them saying he was carried by Kawhi in the '14 playoffs when Kawhi was averaging just 13-7 during that playoff run is laughable.

[KirkHinrich12]

The titles Lebron won in Miami are a total sham teaming up in that manner with other superstars. It’s a stain they lost 2.

[TheLand13]

LeBron's my all time favorite player and the 2016 championship win is one of the all time great title wins. But Duncan's 5 is always going to be more impressive to me. He did it with the same team over the span of three decades. He didn't need to switch teams or ask players to come play with him. It's not a contest if I'm being honest.

Mo Williams wasn't on any of Lebron's title teams

I'm not one for nitpicking, but yeah he was.

[CIN-C-STAR]

LeBron's my all time favorite player and the 2016 championship win is one of the all time great title wins. But Duncan's 5 is always going to be more impressive to me. He did it with the same team over the span of three decades. He didn't need to switch teams or ask players to come play with him. It's not a contest if I'm being honest.

Mo Williams wasn't on any of Lebron's title teams

I'm not one for nitpicking, but yeah he was.

Looked it up and I didn't realize his last season was the 2016 title season w the Cavs.
He didn't play much but still very cool for him and glad he got a ring on his way out. I just remembered him from his earlier Cavs stint from 08-10.
Nice catch.

[Tor_Raps]

LOL why is this thread still going on. No one other than pure Lebron Homer's sees this as a debate.

[nikster]

It is funny seeing all the Lebron stand hissy fits in this thread.

For me it's the blatant lies they spew to discredit Duncan's achievements which is laughable. Such as saying Duncan was not the best player on the '07 team when stats clearly show he was or them saying he was carried by Kawhi in the '14 playoffs when Kawhi was averaging just 13-7 during that playoff run is laughable.

I'd you're going by raw stats Duncan just averaged 16 and 9 on 56 TS% in the 14 playoff run. That was an impressive rum because of what the Spurs did as a team, not what anybody, including Duncan, did individually

[TheLand13]

To the people pointing out that LeBron made three different teams title contenders... do you guys understand how hard it is to succeed in the West that Duncan played in throughout his career? You guys are acting like it was a cake walk for him. The West from 2002-2014 was basically a bloodbath. Hell, in 2016 the Spurs had 67 wins that year and the Warriors still had six more wins than them, and they weren't even the ones who eliminated them.

Repeats (and even threepeats for that matter) are very hard to accomplish. I think that's something a lot of people (myself included) put a lot of stock into with LeBron's title wins in Miami, especially when you factor in how great LeBron was in both of those series. And yeah, Duncan wasn't the FMVP in all of his title wins (and hell, he probably shouldn't have won it in 2005 either). LeBron on the other hand was.

But let's put something into perspective for a second. How many times did the Spurs benefit from game changing free agent moves or trades that ultimately changed the outcome of their team? I'd be willing to be that the number of instances you could count are on one hand. And hell, off the top of my head I can't really think of any. Parker and Manu were guys that the Spurs developed with their own system. These weren't big named players who joined their team in free agency. Danny Green was an important player for the Spurs but he came to that team as a second year player out of Cleveland who didn't get any playing time with said team. We all know the story with Kawhi, who only got to San Antonio in the first place because they took a risk and traded George Hill, who was also an important player for the Spurs.

Going off that, you're looking at a team whose biggest FA pickups are the likes of... Robert Horry (EDIT: right after I hit submit I immediately remembered that the Spurs got LeMarcus Aldridge in FA, so... oops). Granted, Horry was a key factor to SA surviving against the Pistons in 05, but if that's the most notable FA pickup they have, that's pretty telling of how consistent of a system they ran. They didn't trade their first overall pick to get Kevin Love on their team. They didn't trade multiple pieces away to get Anthony Davis. The best they got was basically the equivalent of when Miami got Ray Allen. Just think about that for a moment. They had a system in place that was remarkably consistent for a very long time. It's a testament of how great of a player Tim Duncan really was, and why he's a top ten player in the history of the NBA. LeBron was the better player, and he has the most notable ring with 2016, but Duncan's five will always impress me more than LeBron's four.

[Uncle Mxy]

I take Barkley´s 0 over LeBron´s 4. But, I am not biggest fan of LeBron as you might guess.

TD's' girl will take Duncan's 5 over Barkley's 0, so TD transitively wins.

[hundreth]

This is easily LeBron. Duncan had the luxury of being drafted to a winning franchise with a legendary HoF veteran who plays a similar position and a GOAT contender head coach.

On top of that the Spurs have had a top tier front office who has been ahead of the curve with drafting international players and player development.

Meanwhile, LeBron is carrying Larry Hughes to the finals.

[Lalouie]

lebron had to leave and recruit two hof'ers.
he had, at times, top10 or top5 teams in defense, 3pt%, 2pt %, stls, anf tov @ heat and @cavs
he had bosh, miller, wade, battier pat riley, spoelstra, allen, love, irving, frye, smith, korver, harris, thompson. he had the best rosters for his game, ie "i can carry the team just give me talent to spread the floor and i will be unstaoppable"

and yet there's enuf to show how lucky lebron was with all four rings to be quite honest

he had to beat TWO young inexperienced teams, okc and miami, who had the spurs' and bucks' number, and if memory serves both the bucks and spurs were not only the best teams that year but were also undefeated against the lebron teams

the bubble ring and the improbably come from behind win vs gsw.

he forced star players to play outside their strengths, and cajoled them.

but bottom line, luck played a huge part in ALL four rings. and tim still won one more ring than lbj and they overlap enough that comparisons can be made

[Lalouie]

This place is infested with haters lol.

People are jealous as ****. Considering where he started from (circunstances from childhood), LeBron is probably the most successful player ever, by a country mile.

but it's the blind sycophants who need us to show the way out of their dark tunnel

[bradybunch]

Oh and Duncan is better than LeBron all time as well.

[Joao Saraiva]

I'll take LeBron's and here is why.

Tim Duncan was not FMVP 4 times, and that itself legacy wise is better for LeBron.

LBJ did beat GSW in 16. Against a 73 win team. After being down 3-1. That is possibily the finals with most added value.

On the other rings... Tim Duncan's win in 14 adds a ton of value being against the Heat big 3, but again he wasn't FMVP.
05 is probably the biggest win, and a very good one but Det lacks star power. I'm not saying we shouldn't praise it high as hell, but then again legacy wise it can't be comparable to the 16 ring.
99 was against an 8th seed missing Ewing and 03 against the Nets that were swept by LA a year ago.

I can see people who say Tim Duncan stayed with one franchise and that he is very coachable (he is, and those intangibles should raise his legacy) but then again he was lucky enough to play with Robinson from the begining, then Parker and Manu and later also with Kawih. Within a franchise that worked to perfection (he was also a reason why however).

Even so he was close to going to Orlando. Can you imagine if he started with those Cleveland? He either goes away or we haven't a 5 ring discussion in the proccess.

[DoctorX]

It is funny seeing all the Lebron stand hissy fits in this thread.

For me it's the blatant lies they spew to discredit Duncan's achievements which is laughable. Such as saying Duncan was not the best player on the '07 team when stats clearly show he was or them saying he was carried by Kawhi in the '14 playoffs when Kawhi was averaging just 13-7 during that playoff run is laughable.

I'd you're going by raw stats Duncan just averaged 16 and 9 on 56 TS% in the 14 playoff run. That was an impressive rum because of what the Spurs did as a team, not what anybody, including Duncan, did individually

Spurs were like the '04 PIstons during that title run. I feel their stars were almost all equal in value much like the '04 Pistons.

[DoctorX]

I'll take LeBron's and here is why.

Tim Duncan was not FMVP 4 times, and that itself legacy wise is better for LeBron.

LBJ did beat GSW in 16. Against a 73 win team. After being down 3-1. That is possibily the finals with most added value.

On the other rings... Tim Duncan's win in 14 adds a ton of value being against the Heat big 3, but again he wasn't FMVP.
05 is probably the biggest win, and a very good one but Det lacks star power. I'm not saying we shouldn't praise it high as hell, but then again legacy wise it can't be comparable to the 16 ring.
99 was against an 8th seed missing Ewing and 03 against the Nets that were swept by LA a year ago.

I can see people who say Tim Duncan stayed with one franchise and that he is very coachable (he is, and those intangibles should raise his legacy) but then again he was lucky enough to play with Robinson from the begining, then Parker and Manu and later also with Kawih. Within a franchise that worked to perfection (he was also a reason why however).

Even so he was close to going to Orlando. Can you imagine if he started with those Cleveland? He either goes away or we haven't a 5 ring discussion in the proccess.

Do you think Lebron if he switched places with Duncan would have been able to beat the '99 lakers,'03 Lakers, '05 Pistons??

[jg77]

Seeing this poll...why is LeBron the consensus #2 GOAT again?

[og15]

I'd go with Duncan if we're asking who's championship wins are a greater accomplishment.

I wonder how many more rings Tim would have if he had played with guys like Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis throughout his career

It all depends, sometimes having the "big name" teammate(s) is inferior to having a more well rounded team, many times it is not.

Also coaching of course can be a factor.

Duncan got his first championship alongside 33 year old David Robinson who was an excellent player still. Robinson could have had better stats that season if he was more concerned about that. Nothing special about that team from out eyes now, but their builds then were a bit different too.

02-03 was Duncan primarily carrying and then having some balance on the roster and top level coaching. One of the best carry jobs.

04-05 and 06-07 Parker and Manu were top guard combos, and they had solid championship role players. I think people depending on the narrative underrate how good Parker and Manu were sometimes because of just looking at cumulative stats. That's definitely a top 3 player combination to have.

13-14 was just a very balanced team. They had 4 guys in the playoffs average 14+ ppg and 6 guys with 9+ ppg. I'd take having that quality of support over a lot of other teams where you have one other star and then too many underwhelming or non rotation players.

Depending on who the team is going against, the rest of the roster, the coaching, and health, those players LeBron played with won't always be better. Wasn't health one of the main issues the LeBron and Wade combo had?

lebron had to leave and recruit two hof'ers.
he had, at times, top10 or top5 teams in defense, 3pt%, 2pt %, stls, anf tov @ heat and @cavs
he had bosh, miller, wade, battier pat riley, spoelstra, allen, love, irving, frye, smith, korver, harris, thompson. he had the best rosters for his game, ie "i can carry the team just give me talent to spread the floor and i will be unstaoppable"

and yet there's enuf to show how lucky lebron was with all four rings to be quite honest

he had to beat TWO young inexperienced teams, okc and miami, who had the spurs' and bucks' number, and if memory serves both the bucks and spurs were not only the best teams that year but were also undefeated against the lebron teams

the bubble ring and the improbably come from behind win vs gsw.

he forced star players to play outside their strengths, and cajoled them.

but bottom line, luck played a huge part in ALL four rings. and tim still won one more ring than lbj and they overlap enough that comparisons can be made

This just sounds like basketball, lol. If you get lucky that another team beats a supposed better matchup against you, do you also get credit for being unlucky to catch a bad matchup?

For example, 08-09 Cavs, LeBron could have had 2 finals appearances in 3 seasons if they didn't get the unlucky Magic matchup if we think of it like that.

Do we say the Mavs were an unlucky matchup for the Heat for example? In some ways, I guess. They had an improbable comeback vs the Warriors, but so did the Warriors vs the Thunder. Meh, luck is not a strong argument at all.

[G35]

This place is infested with haters lol.

People are jealous as ****. Considering where he started from (circunstances from childhood), LeBron is probably the most successful player ever, by a country mile.

14 players have been born in Akron, OH including Steph Curry, Larry Nance Jr, and Nate Thurmond

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/birth-cities/79/Akron-OH-United-States

Two players have been born in the US Virgin Islands (St Croix)
Tim Duncan
Raja Bell

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/birth-cities/130/St-Croix-VI-United-States