2023 NBA Draft

[76ciology]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

[BostonCouchGM]

It’s fair to hind sight. If you are a projected top 5 pick you should pull a wiseman and not play after like 4 games. You guarantee yourself $20m+

I really have no idea why more of the top guys don’t do this

the projections about him being top 5 were laughable and those "scouts" should be called on it. Sometimes they get it dead wrong and this is certainly one of them.

But you agree with my point?

I want competitors who want to display their talents to the world but I think forcing them to play in college, G-League or overseas is bogus so I'm conflicted. I would have loved to see Sharpe in college and he may have gone #1 or #2 had done so but he got to make a lot of money and still got drafted high. He doesn't get a ton of run or touches but I've watched enough of him in the NBA to know he's a potential star. POR is just busy trying to compete so he gets lost in the shuffle but tbh it might be the best thing for his development. In Whitehead's case and others who deal with injuries, I can't blame them any longer if they chose not to play. THIS is the worst case scenario for what could go wrong. By putting bad tape out there, whether due to injuries or not, he's cost himself big time. Maybe he would have been exposed in the pre-draft process anyway though. I grew up when college basketball was great. When only rarely did freshmen play and guys stayed 3-4 years so you got to know them and their schools/coaches. It was so big time back in the 80s and 90s. Now it's a one and done factory and the quality of play and teams is lacking. I have mentioned that it does seem like coaches are adjusting and now not playing these one and done guys unless they've earned it and some of them will be forced to return to college which helps the coach out long term.

[NYPiston]

"Competitiveness" nonsense...DWH just jeopardized his future for a clown coach that had no idea what to do with him.

im sure all that "competitivness" is doing Shaedon Sharpe well at the NBA level right now

It was a freak injury, not sure what that has to do with coaching. He was still likely a lottery pick if he had stayed healthy and showed flashes.

You use the Sharpe example yet there was a bunch of guys drafted ahead of him that actually played their college season and either held steady stock or rose through the process so I wouldn't exactly poo poo the whole "competitiveness" concept. Sharpe received a lot of questions through the draft process mainly because there was no scouting of him against legit competition. If he had played and played to his potential, he could have easily been in the top 3 discussion especially considering how wide open it was at the top of that draft. Of course he could have sucked or gotten injured so there's two sides of the coin.

In retrospect, maybe Whitehead should have sat out the season but you can't blame the kid for wanting to play. I could see both sides of the argument tbh.

[clyde21]

buncha strawmanning going on here

1) i don't blame DWH for wanting to play

2) i'm not blaming Scheyer for the injury

i am saying two things: DWH should've just declared after the first foot injury which was going to cause him to come into the season too late and behind, and if that wasn't a red flag enough, he shouldn't bounced the minute Scheyer relegated him to being a spot-up shooter and refusing to put him in a good position to succeed.

[76ciology]

Brandon Miller and Jabari Smith Jr…

So Jabari Smith Jr. is better than Brandon Miller because of his defense? The difference is not that much and quite honestly nobody talks about Jabari Smith’s defense in the NBA. While if both guys are in the NBA, their offense is the one which will be on the microscope and Miller’s offense seems to be better (but not as good as Sensa, George or Howard).

[76ciology]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

Im a big fan of scoot. But his numbers brings me flashback of Emmanuel Mudiay when he played for the CBA back then.

[jman3134]

I really have to dig a lot deeper, so I am very early stages, but I think this class was extremely overrated coming in, unless some of the international guys pull through late, which certainly could happen.

[clyde21]

Johnell Davis is an intriguing sleeper

[babyjax13]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

Im a big fan of scoot. But his numbers brings me flashback of Emmanuel Mudiay when he played for the CBA back then.

Mudiay wasn't nearly as athletic. He was strong as hell but there were some people raising questions about his end to end speed + acceleration. Scoot is like a rocket, and he is a better shooter.

[baldur]

From a super loaded draft to an overrated draft? That escalated quickly.

[jman3134]

From a super loaded draft to an overrated draft? That escalated quickly.

You can't read. I said it was possibly overrated coming in, as some were touting this as an alltime draft. It is probably a decent year by normal standards. Still evaluating a lot.

[babyjax13]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

2020:
1. Edwards
2. Wiseman
3. Ball
4. Williams
5. Okoro

2021
1. Cunningham
2. Green
3. Mobley
4. Barnes
5. Suggs

2022
1. Banchero
2. Holmgren
3. Smith
4. Murray
5. Ivey

2023:
1. Victor
2. Scoot
In contention for 3:
Brandon Miller
Keyonte George
Cam Whitmore
Anthony Black
Amen Thompson
Ausar Thompson

I'm not sure if I feel the same way. 2020 Wiseman was mostly thought of as the third best prospect. 2021 was a really good draft, so I think you have a point there regarding 3 through 5. 2022 a lot of us liked Smith, but it was viewed as a draft with a four (maybe five) players you'd be happy taking second or third in a lot of years, and bigger risks at 1 (Paolo, Smith, Holmgren). Smith isn't looking as good as I expected, but I don't think he was a dramatically better prospect for me than Miller/George/Whitmore, if at all. I think this draft is just fine after 1 & 2, but that the difference is more dramatic, and some guys have not done what we hoped in college (happens every year).

[baldur]

From a super loaded draft to an overrated draft? That escalated quickly.

You can't read. I said it was possibly overrated coming in, as some were touting this as an alltime draft. It is probably a decent year by normal standards. Still evaluating a lot.

Why did you take it personally my man? I was talking in general.

[76ciology]

From a super loaded draft to an overrated draft? That escalated quickly.

When data changes you should also change your mind.

[76ciology]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

2020:
1. Edwards
2. Wiseman
3. Ball
4. Williams
5. Okoro

2021
1. Cunningham
2. Green
3. Mobley
4. Barnes
5. Suggs

2022
1. Banchero
2. Holmgren
3. Smith
4. Murray
5. Ivey

2023:
1. Victor
2. Scoot
In contention for 3:
Brandon Miller
Keyonte George
Cam Whitmore
Anthony Black
Amen Thompson
Ausar Thompson

I'm not sure if I feel the same way. 2020 Wiseman was mostly thought of as the third best prospect. 2021 was a really good draft, so I think you have a point there regarding 3 through 5. 2022 a lot of us liked Smith, but it was viewed as a draft with a four (maybe five) players you'd be happy taking second or third in a lot of years, and bigger risks at 1 (Paolo, Smith, Holmgren). Smith isn't looking as good as I expected, but I don't think he was a dramatically better prospect for me than Miller/George/Whitmore, if at all. I think this draft is just fine after 1 & 2, but that the difference is more dramatic, and some guys have not done what we hoped in college (happens every year).

Regarding Jabari Smith Jr.

I think Brandon Miller is possibly even better because of his edge on offense. And how lopsidedly valued offense is compared to defense to today’s game.

I think 1-2-3 is at par with other draft class.

But after the top 3, it’s a big drop with how guys mock is. Unless you also is a “Sensabaugh Truther” like me. If that’s the case then the big drop is after the top 4.

Btw, what do you guys see with Whitmore’s 12ppg .8apg sub par 3pt shooting and sub par overall shooting for 12ppg?

This guy is not a lottery pick prospect.

[76ciology]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

Im a big fan of scoot. But his numbers brings me flashback of Emmanuel Mudiay when he played for the CBA back then.

Mudiay wasn't nearly as athletic. He was strong as hell but there were some people raising questions about his end to end speed + acceleration. Scoot is like a rocket, and he is a better shooter.

What scares me about Scoot is his low shooting %, high TOs and low ORTG.

His physique and athleticism makes you imagine a lot of things, kind of how I felt about Mudiay back then. But their production is either meh or red flags to me.

I think Scoot is hiding his poor 3pt shooting with 16% 3PAR and shooting only 34%.

I dont really value athleticism and defense at the PG position and values shooting/scoring/+- oncourt offense ALOT

[babyjax13]

This draft has the best top 1 and top 2 but is the weakest from 3rd to bottom of the lottery compared to the last 3 drafts and even more.

Thompson twins is flawed and is playing garbage basketball at OTE, Nick Smith hasn’t proved much and is injured, Whitmore is empty calorie 12ppg scorer and nothing special, Walker is just averaging 10ppg 6rpg and .9bpg and they’re projected in the top 5 in most mocks!

Brandon Miller’s stats screams 3rd overall pick locked and the guy has average at best create and is gonna be worse than the already not impressive Jabari Smith Jr.

Most of the bigs after Wemby are bigs who are good just because they’re big for NCAA. The next best big based on NBA style of play for me is Daron Holmes but he’s more of a super late to 2nd round value pick for me. Kel’el Ware is promising but his production is meh.

So when everything is considered.. after Wemby and Scoot my next best players available are the best shot creators in Senba, George and Howard. I even have Sasser at possibly a late lotto because of how weak the talent is.

2020:
1. Edwards
2. Wiseman
3. Ball
4. Williams
5. Okoro

2021
1. Cunningham
2. Green
3. Mobley
4. Barnes
5. Suggs

2022
1. Banchero
2. Holmgren
3. Smith
4. Murray
5. Ivey

2023:
1. Victor
2. Scoot
In contention for 3:
Brandon Miller
Keyonte George
Cam Whitmore
Anthony Black
Amen Thompson
Ausar Thompson

I'm not sure if I feel the same way. 2020 Wiseman was mostly thought of as the third best prospect. 2021 was a really good draft, so I think you have a point there regarding 3 through 5. 2022 a lot of us liked Smith, but it was viewed as a draft with a four (maybe five) players you'd be happy taking second or third in a lot of years, and bigger risks at 1 (Paolo, Smith, Holmgren). Smith isn't looking as good as I expected, but I don't think he was a dramatically better prospect for me than Miller/George/Whitmore, if at all. I think this draft is just fine after 1 & 2, but that the difference is more dramatic, and some guys have not done what we hoped in college (happens every year).

Regarding Jabari Smith Jr.

I think Brandon Miller is possibly even better because of his edge on offense. And how lopsidedly valued offense is compared to defense to today’s game.

I think 1-2-3 is at par with other draft class.

But after the top 3, it’s a big drop with how guys mock is. Unless you also is a “Sensabaugh Truther” like me. If that’s the case then the big drop is after the top 4.

Btw, what do you guys see with Whitmore’s 12ppg .8apg sub par 3pt shooting and sub par overall shooting for 12ppg?

This guy is not a lottery pick prospect.

He's a very good defender with elite physical tools. He is more explosive than guys like Stanley Johnson and Justise Winslow, who I think would be the players that doubters would point to. He can handle the ball well enough to penetrate into the lane, even in college where the court is more packed. Great off-ball cutter.

Unfortunately, Villanova looks pretty bad this year. The beautiful ball movement is gone, and I think that impacts the kinds of things a guy whose best attribute is getting downhill can do. I think Whitemore's assists would be slightly higher, he definitely isn't a creator, but I don't think he is selfish at all.

I imagine him developing into a player that occupies a similar role to Wiggins or OG, as a guy who can get some baskets as a tertiary scorer, and who is a very good, switchable defender. I have Miller and George ahead of him at this point, but I still really like him.

[Hal14]

From a super loaded draft to an overrated draft? That escalated quickly.

You can't read. I said it was possibly overrated coming in, as some were touting this as an alltime draft. It is probably a decent year by normal standards. Still evaluating a lot.

I think the people saying it could be all-time. That was based on:

-Wemby being possibly the best prospect since LeBron (some are even saying he's a better prospect than LeBron)
-Scoot being a guy who'd go no. 1 in pretty much any other draft
-Thompson twins both being guys who would have gone no. 1 in last year's draft which gives you 4 guys at the top in 2023 who would have gone no.1 in 2022
-Whitmore being an absolute freak
-Nick Smith being an absolute freak
-Whitehead potentially being a slightly less athletic/explosive but WAY better shooting version on Ausar, which caused some people to have Whitehead ranked ahead of the twins because of the combination of ideal wing size + 3 level scoring with elite shooting + really good athleticism/explosiveness
-Ware and Lively as both freak 7-footers who could protect the rim, switch on perimeter, show good passing and shooting 3's (while also being 2 of the younger guys in class)

People were drooling over these 9 guys. Then they saw what George did at the U23 tourney and he started getting top 5 buzz.

So that gave us 10 absolute STUDS.

But then all of these guys (except for wemby and scoot) haven't quite lived up to the hype..at least not yet..

[WargamesX]

Brice Sensabaugh vs. Keyonte George vs. Nick Smith. Who do all of you think is the best prospect of the trio?

[SeattleJazzFan]

Brice Sensabaugh vs. Keyonte George vs. Nick Smith. Who do all of you think is the best prospect of the trio?

i lean george. i really like sensabaugh as a college player, but he just seems so slow, struggles putting the ball on the floor, not a playmaker, lacks vertical athleticism, lacking length and lateral movement on the defensive end. dude shoots the lights out and that will take you far, but it just seems to me of these three offensive minded players, george is the most advanced of the three with the highest ceiling. nick smith is tougher to judge because he has hardly played, but based on the little i saw of him at this level, i put KG ahead of him.

Sensabaugh might have the highest floor of the three, however. i can see either or both of smith or george being a bust as well.