Grant Williams Thread

[BK_2020]

If we sign Grant (who is useless in the last stretch of games, can't stop anyone and dumb plays on offense) I suggest to add a clause in the contract that any interaction he has with an official will he be fines $10K.
After a couple of games and minus about a couple of millions he will stop complaining and start playing
I guess the refs call more against him because of the bitching

Grant would be in the red by all-star break next season if they did this.

He'll be paid well over $100K/game, and that's including the postseason.

Grant's financial health will depend heavily on whether he can deduct these 10k fines as business expense or not from his taxable income. You are looking at $50k per game post-tax, that's getting wiped out with 5 complaints.

[shackles10]

If we sign Grant (who is useless in the last stretch of games, can't stop anyone and dumb plays on offense) I suggest to add a clause in the contract that any interaction he has with an official will he be fines $10K.
After a couple of games and minus about a couple of millions he will stop complaining and start playing
I guess the refs call more against him because of the bitching

Grant would be in the red by all-star break next season if they did this.

He'll be paid well over $100K/game, and that's including the postseason.

You think he only complains 10 times a game? Lol. Are we counting if he walks away and comes back for more one complaint or two? This made up situation needs to know!

[shackles10]

A lot of his complaints are legit so I’ll give him that. But none of them do any good either because he gets heard by the refs about as much as my complaints do. I can’t think of a single time where I felt like he got us a makeup call. Grant is a smart guy though… hopefully he realizes this and realizes the pump fakes hurt his rhythm more than a defender heading his way do.

[Parasite]

I asked this earlier in the year and I’m going to ask again. Why are people hell-bent on paying Grant Williams after the season? The answer I got mostly last time was because he was a good locker room presence and the team loved him. I rolled with that even though I didn’t really care for it. Not anymore. Can someone please give me a legitimate reason to pay this guy a lucrative contract? I’m not seeing it. Take off the green colored glasses and fill me in.

[Cricket23]

I asked this earlier in the year and I’m going to ask again. Why are people hell-bent on paying Grant Williams after the season? The answer I got mostly last time was because he was a good locker room presence and the team loved him. I rolled with that even though I didn’t really care for it. Not anymore. Can someone please give me a legitimate reason to pay this guy a lucrative contract? I’m not seeing it. Take off the green colored glasses and fill me in.

To me his greatest value is defensively in certain key matchups in the playoffs. That alone doesn't mean he's worth his next contract, but if they don't trade him, they can't let him go and lose him for nothing. He's still improving and will be tradable in the future even if he's overpaid.

[Fencer reregistered]

I asked this earlier in the year and I’m going to ask again. Why are people hell-bent on paying Grant Williams after the season? The answer I got mostly last time was because he was a good locker room presence and the team loved him. I rolled with that even though I didn’t really care for it. Not anymore. Can someone please give me a legitimate reason to pay this guy a lucrative contract? I’m not seeing it. Take off the green colored glasses and fill me in.

To me his greatest value is defensively in certain key matchups in the playoffs. That alone doesn't mean he's worth his next contract, but if they don't trade him, they can't let him go and lose him for nothing. He's still improving and will be tradable in the future even if he's overpaid.

His combination of strength and defensive foot speed is almost unmatched. That makes him one of the best defenders against certain matchups, and a versatile switching defender in the general.

On the offensive side of 3-and-D, he's strong as well -- very good at hitting 3s, and increasingly adequate at driving closeouts.

[BK_2020]

His combination of strength and defensive foot speed is almost unmatched. That makes him one of the best defenders against certain matchups, and a versatile switching defender in the general.

On the offensive side of 3-and-D, he's strong as well -- very good at hitting 3s, and increasingly adequate at driving closeouts.

Are we doing the thing where we claim that Grant Williams is one of the best defenders against Giannis and Jokic?

[Fencer reregistered]

His combination of strength and defensive foot speed is almost unmatched. That makes him one of the best defenders against certain matchups, and a versatile switching defender in the general.

On the offensive side of 3-and-D, he's strong as well -- very good at hitting 3s, and increasingly adequate at driving closeouts.

Are we doing the thing where we claim that Grant Williams is one of the best defenders against Giannis and Jokic?

Yes, this year's Denver games notwithstanding.

But it may be that the "is" w.r.t. Jokic turns into a "was".

[BK_2020]

Grant Williams snapshot after 50 games. First number this season, second number last season.

PPG ... 9.0, 7.8
Points per 36 ... 11.7, 11.6
Points per 100 ... 15.8, 16.0
Relative TS% ... +5.9, +6.9
TS+ ... 110, 112
% of FGA within 3 feet of basket ... 13.9%, 18.5%
TRB% ... 9.2, 7.9
Block% ... 1.2, 2.8
TOV% ... 13.8, 11.6
USG% ... 12.8, 12.6
AST% ... 8.2, 5.7

His on/off is still negative but not bottom of the league like last season.

It's been said that his role on offense has expanded but has it really? The one thing that he does now that he didn't before is that short roll passing, perhaps reflected in his improved assist%. As for his scoring it's basically the same load, except he's not as efficient. He's settling for the midrange a lot more which is just not what we want a Grant Williams to do.

[BK_2020]

His combination of strength and defensive foot speed is almost unmatched. That makes him one of the best defenders against certain matchups, and a versatile switching defender in the general.

On the offensive side of 3-and-D, he's strong as well -- very good at hitting 3s, and increasingly adequate at driving closeouts.

Are we doing the thing where we claim that Grant Williams is one of the best defenders against Giannis and Jokic?

Yes, this year's Denver games notwithstanding.

But it may be that the "is" w.r.t. Jokic turns into a "was".

I don't think Grant Williams is a good defender or a good defender against Jokic and Giannis but I think his specific skillset does synergize nicely with Rob. Grant can stay in front of big, strong guys and tank the attack and let help defense bother the shot.

[Fencer reregistered]

Are we doing the thing where we claim that Grant Williams is one of the best defenders against Giannis and Jokic?

Yes, this year's Denver games notwithstanding.

But it may be that the "is" w.r.t. Jokic turns into a "was".

I don't think Grant Williams is a good defender or a good defender against Jokic and Giannis but I think his specific skillset does synergize nicely with Rob. Grant can stay in front of big, strong guys and tank the attack and let help defense bother the shot.

The last I saw this was a team sport.

Shotblocking is commonly a joint effort these days -- one or more teammates to slow the attacker down, plus one to eventually block the shot.

[BK_2020]

Yes, this year's Denver games notwithstanding.

But it may be that the "is" w.r.t. Jokic turns into a "was".

I don't think Grant Williams is a good defender or a good defender against Jokic and Giannis but I think his specific skillset does synergize nicely with Rob. Grant can stay in front of big, strong guys and tank the attack and let help defense bother the shot.

The last I saw this was a team sport.

Shotblocking is commonly a joint effort these days -- one or more teammates to slow the attacker down, plus one to eventually block the shot.

Yeah it's a team sport. But that doesn't stop people from making hyperbolic statements like Grant is one of the best Jokic defenders or whatever does it?

[Cricket23]

It's hard to say how good he is against Jokic because it's a small sample size, but I believe he's crucial to defending Giannis, and the Bucks may be the #1 team that Boston has to get through over the next couple of years. That doesn't mean he is a Giannis stopper, but he can battle him and make him work while most guys can't. If one of the Jays are on Giannis they don't have a chance, but Smart, Horford, and Grant defend him in different ways and that's what you need. Grant can take the pounding that Giannis gives out and that's huge. That's his biggest value to Boston and it can be the difference between #18 or not.

[Fencer reregistered]

I don't think Grant Williams is a good defender or a good defender against Jokic and Giannis but I think his specific skillset does synergize nicely with Rob. Grant can stay in front of big, strong guys and tank the attack and let help defense bother the shot.

The last I saw this was a team sport.

Shotblocking is commonly a joint effort these days -- one or more teammates to slow the attacker down, plus one to eventually block the shot.

Yeah it's a team sport. But that doesn't stop people from making hyperbolic statements like Grant is one of the best Jokic defenders or whatever does it?

How is that hyperbolic? Who is in the large group of players who are better at defending Jokic than Grant is?

[Hal14]

The last I saw this was a team sport.

Shotblocking is commonly a joint effort these days -- one or more teammates to slow the attacker down, plus one to eventually block the shot.

Yeah it's a team sport. But that doesn't stop people from making hyperbolic statements like Grant is one of the best Jokic defenders or whatever does it?

How is that hyperbolic? Who is in the large group of players who are better at defending Jokic than Grant is?

Don't bother talking about Grant (or JB) with BK. Save yourself the aggravation..

[BK_2020]

It's hard to say how good he is against Jokic because it's a small sample size, but I believe he's crucial to defending Giannis, and the Bucks may be the #1 team that Boston has to get through over the next couple of years. That doesn't mean he is a Giannis stopper, but he can battle him and make him work while most guys can't. If one of the Jays are on Giannis they don't have a chance, but Smart, Horford, and Grant defend him in different ways and that's what you need. Grant can take the pounding that Giannis gives out and that's huge. That's his biggest value to Boston and it can be the difference between #18 or not.

He's useful in defending Giannis. Maybe he's crucial with the roster constructed as it is. He's not crucial if you are talking about roster construction, acquisitions, and contracts, because other guys can get the job done. If Grant Williams was actually crucial to defending Giannis, the Bucks would win all games against 28 teams other than the Celtics unless Giannis was out.

[Cricket23]

It's hard to say how good he is against Jokic because it's a small sample size, but I believe he's crucial to defending Giannis, and the Bucks may be the #1 team that Boston has to get through over the next couple of years. That doesn't mean he is a Giannis stopper, but he can battle him and make him work while most guys can't. If one of the Jays are on Giannis they don't have a chance, but Smart, Horford, and Grant defend him in different ways and that's what you need. Grant can take the pounding that Giannis gives out and that's huge. That's his biggest value to Boston and it can be the difference between #18 or not.

He's useful in defending Giannis. Maybe he's crucial with the roster constructed as it is. He's not crucial if you are talking about roster construction, acquisitions, and contracts, because other guys can get the job done. If Grant Williams was actually crucial to defending Giannis, the Bucks would win all games against 28 teams other than the Celtics unless Giannis was out.

I'm surprised you would make a statement like that. He just may be the difference between winning 4 of 7 vs 3 of 7, a small difference yet a difference that can mean everything. If they don't have Grant last year, they likely lose to the Bucks.

[BK_2020]

It's hard to say how good he is against Jokic because it's a small sample size, but I believe he's crucial to defending Giannis, and the Bucks may be the #1 team that Boston has to get through over the next couple of years. That doesn't mean he is a Giannis stopper, but he can battle him and make him work while most guys can't. If one of the Jays are on Giannis they don't have a chance, but Smart, Horford, and Grant defend him in different ways and that's what you need. Grant can take the pounding that Giannis gives out and that's huge. That's his biggest value to Boston and it can be the difference between #18 or not.

He's useful in defending Giannis. Maybe he's crucial with the roster constructed as it is. He's not crucial if you are talking about roster construction, acquisitions, and contracts, because other guys can get the job done. If Grant Williams was actually crucial to defending Giannis, the Bucks would win all games against 28 teams other than the Celtics unless Giannis was out.

I'm surprised you would make a statement like that. He just may be the difference between winning 4 of 7 vs 3 of 7, a small difference yet a difference that can mean everything. If they don't have Grant last year, they likely lose to the Bucks.

Yeah but if the Celtics didn't have Grant Williams, but had, PJ Tucker, do they lose to the Bucks? I think we are not talking about the same things here. I am trying to dispute the notion that Grant Williams is crucial in an absolute sense, i.e. that he's some kind of a Giannis-stopper who is necessary to stopping Giannis. I think he does good things on defense that work well in synergy with other defensive strengths. However, I also think that there's a number of players who can do what Grant does.
If you took an 8 man rotation and took away someone, yes it's going to hurt the team. In that sense, we _needed_ Grant to win against the Bucks. But I don't think Brad goes into the off-season thinking Grant Williams must be resigned at all costs or we can never win against the Bucks.

[Cricket23]

He's useful in defending Giannis. Maybe he's crucial with the roster constructed as it is. He's not crucial if you are talking about roster construction, acquisitions, and contracts, because other guys can get the job done. If Grant Williams was actually crucial to defending Giannis, the Bucks would win all games against 28 teams other than the Celtics unless Giannis was out.

I'm surprised you would make a statement like that. He just may be the difference between winning 4 of 7 vs 3 of 7, a small difference yet a difference that can mean everything. If they don't have Grant last year, they likely lose to the Bucks.

Yeah but if the Celtics didn't have Grant Williams, but had, PJ Tucker, do they lose to the Bucks? I think we are not talking about the same things here. I am trying to dispute the notion that Grant Williams is crucial in an absolute sense, i.e. that he's some kind of a Giannis-stopper who is necessary to stopping Giannis. I think he does good things on defense that work well in synergy with other defensive strengths. However, I also think that there's a number of players who can do what Grant does.
If you took an 8 man rotation and took away someone, yes it's going to hurt the team. In that sense, we _needed_ Grant to win against the Bucks. But I don't think Brad goes into the off-season thinking Grant Williams must be resigned at all costs or we can never win against the Bucks.

I would rather have Grant at his future contract and age than Tucker at his current contract and age. I don't disagree that he's limited and possibly overvalued, but you also can't let an asset walk for nothing even if you have a comparable replacement, which they don't. That's bad asset management. I'm not sure what you're arguing; you think they should let him walk for nothing?

[BK_2020]

I'm surprised you would make a statement like that. He just may be the difference between winning 4 of 7 vs 3 of 7, a small difference yet a difference that can mean everything. If they don't have Grant last year, they likely lose to the Bucks.

Yeah but if the Celtics didn't have Grant Williams, but had, PJ Tucker, do they lose to the Bucks? I think we are not talking about the same things here. I am trying to dispute the notion that Grant Williams is crucial in an absolute sense, i.e. that he's some kind of a Giannis-stopper who is necessary to stopping Giannis. I think he does good things on defense that work well in synergy with other defensive strengths. However, I also think that there's a number of players who can do what Grant does.
If you took an 8 man rotation and took away someone, yes it's going to hurt the team. In that sense, we _needed_ Grant to win against the Bucks. But I don't think Brad goes into the off-season thinking Grant Williams must be resigned at all costs or we can never win against the Bucks.

I would rather have Grant at his future contract and age than Tucker at his current contract and age. I don't disagree that he's limited and possibly overvalued, but you also can't let an asset walk for nothing even if you have a comparable replacement, which they don't. That's bad asset management. I'm not sure what you're arguing; you think they should let him walk for nothing?

I'm saying something that's very basic which you apparently agree with. Grant Williams is a useful player and an asset, but he's not essential. He's not crucial to defending Giannis, and he's not one of the best Giannis- Jokic- defenders in the league. If the choice is between letting him walk and overpaying him, then you let him walk and get someone with the T-MLE. Letting a role player walk for nothing isn't ideal but it's far better than overpaying a role player you don't value at that price point.
Age is really kinda pointless in this discussion. Youth is valuable because younger players are typically more athletic, come cheaper, and improve. An overpaid Grant would offer none of the things that make youth valuable.