Scottie Pippen for career, prime and peak

[Jaivl]

This board is very sympathetic towards great players on historically bad teams as if they were not a big part of it but tough on great players on historically GOAT teams as if they were not a big part of it...

I'm really expecting to see some eye-opening arguments for Pippen over Wade, KG and Oscar now.

You'll have to wait for the Garnett gang and their pro great defense not great scoring mentality.

KG is a poor scorer compared with most of the top 20, but he's still a much better scorer than Pippen, so I don't know how that misrepresentation applies here.

But, of course, that's completely obvious for anybody who doesn't try to argue in bad faith.

[migya]

I'm really expecting to see some eye-opening arguments for Pippen over Wade, KG and Oscar now.

You'll have to wait for the Garnett gang and their pro great defense not great scoring mentality.

KG is a poor scorer compared with most of the top 20, but he's still a much better scorer than Pippen, so I don't know how that misrepresentation applies here.

But, of course, that's completely obvious for anybody who doesn't try to argue in bad faith.

Suppose you got that conclusion from the three point differential per 100. Duncan, Klay, Memphis Gasol and Clippers Brand are much better scorers than Garnett.

Good use of data.

[Cavsfansince84]

The same logic can be used to say Jordan never won without Pippen, Bulls with Pippen only needs another piece to win it all, and Pippen made out to second round the first time he had a chance, a feast that KG was able to do only once in 12 seasons.

I wouldn't say that you are using the same logic at all there regarding MJ.

[migya]

The same logic can be used to say Jordan never won without Pippen, Bulls with Pippen only needs another piece to win it all, and Pippen made out to second round the first time he had a chance, a feast that KG was able to do only once in 12 seasons.

I wouldn't say that you are using the same logic at all there regarding MJ.

The point is that Pippen can't be judged for not winning a championship as the sole leader with only two seasons without Jordan, and only one PS. Is Julius Erving judged for not winning before Moses got there? Is Minnesota Garnett (at least on here)? If Kobe never panned out Shaq probably has no championships, does he get judged? Kobe without Shaq and Gasol?

Ther Bulls team had nothing offensively. Horace and Armstrong were at their best and were mediocre scores. Kukoc was an average at best rookie. They had a couple of accurate shooters but little volume. It was Pippen that raised that team and his defense lead them also, that's why he was third in mvp, arguably Olajuwon's and Robinson's career seasons.

[Cavsfansince84]

The point is that Pippen can't be judged for not winning a championship as the sole leader with only two seasons without Jordan, and only one PS. Is Julius Erving judged for not winning before Moses got there? Is Minnesota Garnett (at least on here)? If Kobe never panned out Shaq probably has no championships, does he get judged? Kobe without Shaq and Gasol?

Ther Bulls team had nothing offensively. Horace and Armstrong were at their best and were mediocre scores. Kukoc was an average at best rookie. They had a couple of accurate shooters but little volume. It was Pippen that raised that team and his defense lead them also, that's why he was third in mvp, arguably Olajuwon's and Robinson's career seasons.

Julius also led the Sixers to 3 finals before Moses(with some great series mixed in) and 2 aba titles/4 mvps total I believe. In short, Pippen doesn't automatically deserve the benefit of the doubt just as I wouldn't give it to Havlicek either had he not showed what he could do in the 70-77 years. Pippen was very good in 94 but I also think you are sort of just ignoring or not aware of Pippen's reputation for being sort of mentally weak as well which again carries over to question marks about his ability to lead a team in the way that a top 35 franchise player needs to be able to. I think KG can also be given similar doubts due to things that are known about him but probably not to near the same degree and of course has a prime where he is basically a top 5 player throughout it.

[migya]

The point is that Pippen can't be judged for not winning a championship as the sole leader with only two seasons without Jordan, and only one PS. Is Julius Erving judged for not winning before Moses got there? Is Minnesota Garnett (at least on here)? If Kobe never panned out Shaq probably has no championships, does he get judged? Kobe without Shaq and Gasol?

Ther Bulls team had nothing offensively. Horace and Armstrong were at their best and were mediocre scores. Kukoc was an average at best rookie. They had a couple of accurate shooters but little volume. It was Pippen that raised that team and his defense lead them also, that's why he was third in mvp, arguably Olajuwon's and Robinson's career seasons.

Julius also led the Sixers to 3 finals before Moses(with some great series mixed in) and 2 aba titles/4 mvps total I believe. In short, Pippen doesn't automatically deserve the benefit of the doubt just as I wouldn't give it to Havlicek either had he not showed what he could do in the 70-77 years. Pippen was very good in 94 but I also think you are sort of just ignoring or not aware of Pippen's reputation for being sort of mentally weak as well which again carries over to question marks about his ability to lead a team in the way that a top 35 franchise player needs to be able to. I think KG can also be given similar doubts due to things that are known about him but probably not to near the same degree and of course has a prime where he is basically a top 5 player throughout it.

Erving had far better teams. They are on the same level, arguably Pippen is a bit better because of defense.

[HeartBreakKid]

He took his team to more wins than the others with similar talent.

And what does that have to do with Scottie Pippen's offense?

Also, lol at having similar talent. If you think the 10 Heat and the 94 Bulls are similar in talent just stop posting.

Very similar to main squeeze Lebron's offense in his teams'successes. Pippen was the playmaking for that team. Kerr and Pete Myers didn't add much in that.

I didn't say the Bulls had more talent, the Heat had Jermaine O'Neal, Haslem and a boat load of shooters. Keep your pants on

It's obvious you just go on websites and think 'oh, i remember that player!'. Are you really saying with a straight face that the 2010 Heat were comparable to the Bulls because they had past prime O'Neal and uh...Haslem? What's next, Michael Beasley was a great 2nd option?

[70sFan]

The point is that Pippen can't be judged for not winning a championship as the sole leader with only two seasons without Jordan, and only one PS. Is Julius Erving judged for not winning before Moses got there? Is Minnesota Garnett (at least on here)? If Kobe never panned out Shaq probably has no championships, does he get judged? Kobe without Shaq and Gasol?

Ther Bulls team had nothing offensively. Horace and Armstrong were at their best and were mediocre scores. Kukoc was an average at best rookie. They had a couple of accurate shooters but little volume. It was Pippen that raised that team and his defense lead them also, that's why he was third in mvp, arguably Olajuwon's and Robinson's career seasons.

Julius also led the Sixers to 3 finals before Moses(with some great series mixed in) and 2 aba titles/4 mvps total I believe. In short, Pippen doesn't automatically deserve the benefit of the doubt just as I wouldn't give it to Havlicek either had he not showed what he could do in the 70-77 years. Pippen was very good in 94 but I also think you are sort of just ignoring or not aware of Pippen's reputation for being sort of mentally weak as well which again carries over to question marks about his ability to lead a team in the way that a top 35 franchise player needs to be able to. I think KG can also be given similar doubts due to things that are known about him but probably not to near the same degree and of course has a prime where he is basically a top 5 player throughout it.

Erving had far better teams. They are on the same level, arguably Pippen is a bit better because of defense.

Why don't you just admit that all of the greatest players ever played within one decade and call it a day?

Can't wait to see discussions about Kemp being better than Giannis... wait, it already happened.

[migya]

Julius also led the Sixers to 3 finals before Moses(with some great series mixed in) and 2 aba titles/4 mvps total I believe. In short, Pippen doesn't automatically deserve the benefit of the doubt just as I wouldn't give it to Havlicek either had he not showed what he could do in the 70-77 years. Pippen was very good in 94 but I also think you are sort of just ignoring or not aware of Pippen's reputation for being sort of mentally weak as well which again carries over to question marks about his ability to lead a team in the way that a top 35 franchise player needs to be able to. I think KG can also be given similar doubts due to things that are known about him but probably not to near the same degree and of course has a prime where he is basically a top 5 player throughout it.

Erving had far better teams. They are on the same level, arguably Pippen is a bit better because of defense.

Why don't you just admit that all of the greatest players ever played within one decade and call it a day?

Can't wait to see discussions about Kemp being better than Giannis... wait, it already happened.

That's your consistent argument, nothing proof based just whinging.

[70sFan]

Erving had far better teams. They are on the same level, arguably Pippen is a bit better because of defense.

Why don't you just admit that all of the greatest players ever played within one decade and call it a day?

Can't wait to see discussions about Kemp being better than Giannis... wait, it already happened.

That's your consistent argument, nothing proof based just whinging.

You know my posts history, I have provided a little more throughout my history here than posting basketball reference numbers.

[migya]

Why don't you just admit that all of the greatest players ever played within one decade and call it a day?

Can't wait to see discussions about Kemp being better than Giannis... wait, it already happened.

That's your consistent argument, nothing proof based just whinging.

You know my posts history, I have provided a little more throughout my history here than posting basketball reference numbers.

You provide nothing more than semi mocking, sulky remarks.

[70sFan]

That's your consistent argument, nothing proof based just whinging.

You know my posts history, I have provided a little more throughout my history here than posting basketball reference numbers.

You provide nothing more than semi mocking, sulky remarks.

You ignore everything that doesn't go in line with your criteria. You said yourself that you don't need anything else than "advanced stats", so why do you even create these threads? You are not willing to change your mind anyway.

[migya]

You know my posts history, I have provided a little more throughout my history here than posting basketball reference numbers.

You provide nothing more than semi mocking, sulky remarks.

You ignore everything that doesn't go in line with your criteria. You said yourself that you don't need anything else than "advanced stats", so why do you even create these threads? You are not willing to change your mind anyway.

But it's about "facts based analysis". Isn't that one of your key beliefs?

[70sFan]

You provide nothing more than semi mocking, sulky remarks.

You ignore everything that doesn't go in line with your criteria. You said yourself that you don't need anything else than "advanced stats", so why do you even create these threads? You are not willing to change your mind anyway.

But it's about "facts based analysis". Isn't that one of your key beliefs?

It is, but it doesn't mean that you should focus only on these facts, while ignoring the other ones. You should be aware that stats have certain value, but you extrapolate them way too much.

[McBubbles]

Julius also led the Sixers to 3 finals before Moses(with some great series mixed in) and 2 aba titles/4 mvps total I believe. In short, Pippen doesn't automatically deserve the benefit of the doubt just as I wouldn't give it to Havlicek either had he not showed what he could do in the 70-77 years. Pippen was very good in 94 but I also think you are sort of just ignoring or not aware of Pippen's reputation for being sort of mentally weak as well which again carries over to question marks about his ability to lead a team in the way that a top 35 franchise player needs to be able to. I think KG can also be given similar doubts due to things that are known about him but probably not to near the same degree and of course has a prime where he is basically a top 5 player throughout it.

Erving had far better teams. They are on the same level, arguably Pippen is a bit better because of defense.

Why don't you just admit that all of the greatest players ever played within one decade and call it a day?

Can't wait to see discussions about Kemp being better than Giannis... wait, it already happened.

Excuse me is this an opinion that was stated from 2019 onwards?

[dooki667]

Very similar to main squeeze Lebron's offense in his teams'successes. Pippen was the playmaking for that team. Kerr and Pete Myers didn't add much in that.

The 94 Bulls ranked 14th in offense, and Pippen doesn't sniff Lebron as an offensive player so I have no clue what this means. At this point, it seems clear you're trolling.

I didn't say the Bulls had more talent, the Heat had Jermaine O'Neal,

Oh yeah the Jermaine Oneal who played 28 mpg and rocked a negative OBPM was such a great player out there.

Haslem

Haslem who was a negative in OBPM, BPM and was an overall negative in on/off.

and a boat load of shooters. Keep your pants on

Wait what? The Heat were only 16th in the league in % of shots from 3 point range, and 20th in makes from 3 point range.

You are literally just making things up here.

Check the other stats on the same page you were looking at

Jermaine O'Neal left before LeBron got there he went to Boston