SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT)

Moderator: G R E Y

User avatar
imagump1313
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,908
And1: 3,935
Joined: Apr 27, 2013
Location: Behind You
       

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#81 » by imagump1313 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:14 am

G R E Y wrote:I'm livid at Keldon's selfishness ruining a potential W for Pop. It's the anti-Pop ethos of selfish me-first basketball.

I knew, I JUST KNEW he'd try to make sure he got more points than Sochan. He has done this several times with other players, looking off the hot hand to get his. Well there you go, chuckster.

p.s. I'd have been fine with Sochan taking and missing that end of 4TH 3. It was the RIGHT PLAY - an open shot from an extra pass.

Post-game you could hear Pop's disappointment with the outcome even as he praised how we competed.

We keep selfless, high BBIQ players going forward, please. And ones who care about defending well, too. Otherwise, hold the door open.


He was doing the same things I thought with Vassell earlier in the year. (Although Vassell was doing it a little the other way too) He is struggling with the fact that he is not the main guy and isn't going to be. One of the biggest off season projects we have is to get him to play well with others and trust his job will be easier if he does it.

Its easy to see when we are moving the ball well and he is getting passes going to the basket or spotting up from three he is a nice player. When he tries to do everything off the dribble and has horse blinders on he is not big or athletic enough to score.

The defense is frustration IMO and this season there is no urgency for us to get him to correct that. I think we are letting a lot of things go this season that we normally wouldnt from all our players even though no one will ever admit to it.
User avatar
G R E Y
Senior Mod - Spurs
Senior Mod - Spurs
Posts: 51,332
And1: 39,152
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Location: Silver and Black
 

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#82 » by G R E Y » Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:36 am

imagump1313 wrote:
G R E Y wrote:I'm livid at Keldon's selfishness ruining a potential W for Pop. It's the anti-Pop ethos of selfish me-first basketball.

I knew, I JUST KNEW he'd try to make sure he got more points than Sochan. He has done this several times with other players, looking off the hot hand to get his. Well there you go, chuckster.

p.s. I'd have been fine with Sochan taking and missing that end of 4TH 3. It was the RIGHT PLAY - an open shot from an extra pass.

Post-game you could hear Pop's disappointment with the outcome even as he praised how we competed.

We keep selfless, high BBIQ players going forward, please. And ones who care about defending well, too. Otherwise, hold the door open.


He was doing the same things I thought with Vassell earlier in the year. (Although Vassell was doing it a little the other way too) He is struggling with the fact that he is not the main guy and isn't going to be. One of the biggest off season projects we have is to get him to play well with others and trust his job will be easier if he does it.

Its easy to see when we are moving the ball well and he is getting passes going to the basket or spotting up from three he is a nice player. When he tries to do everything off the dribble and has horse blinders on he is not big or athletic enough to score.

The defense is frustration IMO and this season there is no urgency for us to get him to correct that. I think we are letting a lot of things go this season that we normally wouldnt from all our players even though no one will ever admit to it.

I agree with all of what you're saying. I'm just having a hard time staying with Keldon the selfless player. My first big inkling to underpinning - not motives, maybe conflicting drives, or influences - was when he switched to Klutch and the agent he had switched from had no comment. Tells you it wasn't a good parting. Klutch offered to sign Keldon's brother as part of the deal, the guy in the G-League. Players have a right to make moves that are best for theri career. But there was something about that that stuck with me.

I don't like how he just keeps looking to get his and in post-game interviews he talks about gratitude that coaches and players have faith in him to take the shots. If he's under 20 points, he makes sure he's hitting that plateau. Then he hits it, but another player has more points and yeah he passed nicely at times, but he flat out looked off guys, especially in the 1ST Q as I stated in the summary.

So it's less a lack of trust. It's getting his. And it's concerning even if this season we aren't *that* concerned about certain things.

But I think we're monitoring it. I have a hunch we are. If there's ever an evaluation season, it's this one. It's how Romeo won his job over Joe Wiesy. Keldon talked about 'playing the right way and sharing the ball' as well as focusing on his defense before the season began. And he does make a pass now and again, and it gets highlighted by the broadcast crew (you missed a lot of giggles *sigh*), he does it just to say oh well look I did make the right pass.

But he was abysmal on D, abysmal in running and moving off ball, mostly passed when he got into trouble, and made sure he got his. This isn't the Keldon stand out season like DJ before him but it is the learning right habits and being willing to play the right way. And he's not. I've switched my POV about this.

This is my stance now unless I see otherwise consistently. I hate half assing what has to be done and lip service to the rest.
ImageImageImage
The Spurs Way
Thinking of you, Pop :hug:

#XX
User avatar
G R E Y
Senior Mod - Spurs
Senior Mod - Spurs
Posts: 51,332
And1: 39,152
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Location: Silver and Black
 

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#83 » by G R E Y » Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:07 am

This one's going to take a bit to stop being irritating. It's clear why or who cost us big chances to win the game.
ImageImageImage
The Spurs Way
Thinking of you, Pop :hug:

#XX
User avatar
Phreak50
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,928
And1: 10,966
Joined: Feb 01, 2014

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#84 » by Phreak50 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:56 pm

I told ya and was seeing it much earlier than you guys.

Sell high. Move Keldon by the deadline.
User avatar
G R E Y
Senior Mod - Spurs
Senior Mod - Spurs
Posts: 51,332
And1: 39,152
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Location: Silver and Black
 

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#85 » by G R E Y » Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:45 pm

Phreak50 wrote:I told ya and was seeing it much earlier than you guys.

Sell high. Move Keldon by the deadline.

Do you realistically think PATFO will trade Keldon on a rookie contract?

What I think will happen is with Devin and Sochan leaping Keldon and with us drafting elite talent, the order of who eats when will re-regulate, like when Keldon was not the top option in the bubble and was able to play off of players ahead of him.

Where we agree is that Keldon is not a first option on a contending team, though I don't think anyways making that argument.

What my eyes are open to now is Keldon's shot selection (rather than options to pass to open team mates). I'm no longer convinced it's about doing what's best for the team first.

Have you guys noticed every Klutch player we've had has gone through the same pattern with us? And we have fewer and fewer Klutch players? Something to keep an eye on as we get better. We simply cannot have a young leader defending abysmally and not passing. These are the opposite of what we are about.
ImageImageImage
The Spurs Way
Thinking of you, Pop :hug:

#XX
Ballings7
RealGM
Posts: 24,081
And1: 1,962
Joined: Jan 04, 2006

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#86 » by Ballings7 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:32 pm

I've always seen Keldon at his peak being an all-star level player and scorer, who is a great 3rd or 4th option on a decent or better playoff team. Andre Iguodala-level scorer (not defender, playmaker or rebounder, no).

He isn't an "average" nba player though.. he has legitimate talent and his work ethic has made him into a good player who can raise his game on both ends.

He won't be the replacement for Kawhi or Ginobili, on the wing offensively, or defensively; but he would be a really good piece if this team had more balance and structure after some more devleopment of roles.

I'd say keep him around as long as things develop right for the team's roles.

Great effort by Sochan, love watching him play.
The Playoffs don't care about your Analytics
User avatar
imagump1313
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,908
And1: 3,935
Joined: Apr 27, 2013
Location: Behind You
       

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#87 » by imagump1313 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:42 pm

Phreak50 wrote:I told ya and was seeing it much earlier than you guys.

Sell high. Move Keldon by the deadline.


I don't think a panic move to trade him is a good idea at all.

He's a good player who is trying to do more than he is capable of. I think he helps us a lot when used correctly. He has shown that he can play defense. He just has a little attitude problem ATM.

No one is going in pants on fire to try to fix this right now. We arent trying to win a bunch of games, we are trying to get through games the best we can.

Also, if we are lucky enough to get Wembanyama can you imagine Johnson with a renewed attitude playing along side of him? All of those failed double teamed layups he misses are going to be wide open dunks. He is going to have tons more wide open three spot ups. And the defense? He would be free to take all the chances he wants and not get burned every time if he fails.
User avatar
G R E Y
Senior Mod - Spurs
Senior Mod - Spurs
Posts: 51,332
And1: 39,152
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Location: Silver and Black
 

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#88 » by G R E Y » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:42 am

OT: SPURS 118 SUNS 128

It’s the how of our play that is at the core of this season, and the evaluation of it throughout is showing some good and some revealing traits.

Whether we would have won on an open Sochan 3 or potential drive we’ll never know. But it’s secondary to the fact that in a tie game with the ball in Keldon’s hands and Sochan open, the right play – an extra pass to the open man – was not made and it’s time for the fig leaf to get pulled about it.

Post-game, Keldon talked about how proud he was of Sochan’s growth, and it’s irritating because there’s been a whole lot of talk about leadership and the Spurs way and defense and playing the right way in interviews, and our broadcast crew pointing out those times Keldon made a good pass or defensive play. But in between, Keldon has outscored team mates who had more points than him and it wasn’t within the sets that we run. He keeps looking off players, driving into a too congested key versus too many defenders, and doesn’t pass out.

Sochan had 26 points after three Qs; Keldon, 14. So of course Sochan had but two attempts in the 4TH Q, made both for 30 points. And of course Keldon took 7 shots in the 4TH Q and another 7 in OT by which point he had surpassed Sochan with 34 points on 26FGAs, one more than Sochan. Heaven forbid that Devin or Tre or Sochan or whoever get more points or more attempts.

There’s nothing that’s been said or implied that Keldon is somehow our #1 option. Even before the season, Pop said we’d have to play by committee because we do not have that true #1 option. And the Klutch boys have taken their turns expanding their games in the meantime. Sure you need someone to step up, and the assertion is in a way good.

But if you watch replays, you notice how players are not giving the ball to Keldon as the first option once we pass half court even if he’s open. And when they look off him two things happen: one, they keep moving on and off ball, more guys touch it and more guys shoot it; two, Keldon’s body language doesn’t look too happy when he doesn’t get the ball. But that’s how his team mates feel when he continues to look off them and stifle movement as we stand around watching him barrel through the key. And it didn’t start with team mates looking off him – that’s a consequence of Keldon looking off team mates so often. And so here we are, players taking turns rather than feeding the hot hand.

And the hot hand was Sochan but hero ISO ball stepped in to do his thing and we missed a chance to seal a good comeback with a W.

Keldon can’t be the leader and be poor defensively, or be lax in off ball movement (much to Pop’s chagrin on the sidelines to keep moving to get to the right spot to run the play properly), or not make the right pass. This season is about right habit development and about evaluation. Keldon is not an exception to playing the right way and he’s certainly not the embodiment of it. And it’s getting really irritating when he actually gets in the way of team mates who are playing the right way on both ends by taking the flow out of our O.

He was one of only three Spurs who even put up a shot in OT, certainly took the most shots in the game. We took six more FGAs, made two more 3s, had a 66-52 points in the paint advantage, and still lost by 10 because the things that got us back into the game are the very things that we keep going away from in crucial times: movement and sharing on O, communication and movement and responsibility on D. And if Keldon isn’t emulating that by example then he’s part of the problem, especially since these same issues come up more frequently and in successive games now.

I did see Keldon communicating for where guys should be going and directing us, so that’s good. But again, it doesn’t make up for the cumulative plays that were well outside our right way play on both ends. And if he happens to do right things for a game or two, unless and until he does them consistently where he shows IQ and effort on D and looks to make the right play on O, it’s an exception.

So that’s it. We had a chance to reward ourselves for good play, and because the selfish hero compulsion or entitlement of whatever it is that is underpinning these decisions, the right play to end regulation wasn’t made and it cost us. Tired of the one-player free for all at the expense of the rest of the team. Make the right play. Defend with pride. Everyone is being evaluated with how they play within our sets or without them, and with what kind of effort and improvement on D. Everyone.
ImageImageImage
The Spurs Way
Thinking of you, Pop :hug:

#XX
User avatar
G R E Y
Senior Mod - Spurs
Senior Mod - Spurs
Posts: 51,332
And1: 39,152
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Location: Silver and Black
 

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#89 » by G R E Y » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:43 am

NOTEWORTHY ACHIEVEMENTS

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
ImageImageImage
The Spurs Way
Thinking of you, Pop :hug:

#XX
User avatar
G R E Y
Senior Mod - Spurs
Senior Mod - Spurs
Posts: 51,332
And1: 39,152
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Location: Silver and Black
 

Re: SPURS GAME DAY! GAME 50: SPURS VS. SUNS, 28-1-2023, 7PM (CT) 

Post#90 » by G R E Y » Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:43 am

POST-GAME INTERVIEWS

Can't seem to find any quotes from Pop yet...

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
ImageImageImage
The Spurs Way
Thinking of you, Pop :hug:

#XX

Return to San Antonio Spurs