2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[bigfoot]

Terry Rozier needs to be a sun

Yeah, Rozier, Plumlee, and Oubre for Ayton and Crowder would be good this year and for the future of the Suns.

[Slim Charless]

Terry Rozier needs to be a sun

Yeah, Rozier, Plumlee, and Oubre for Ayton and Crowder would be good this year and for the future of the Suns.

Wait, what?

You don't mean that.

[sunskerr]

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For a !st ..................really???

He is playing the best ball of his career. This would be something we'd look at if we parted with Ayton for a guard or forward.

I hear ya man. But for a 1st though?

maaaybe. It's like, if you need to fill in that hole at center because Ayton is gone and you have no options, and youre trying to still compete this year, that would be an option.

Teams always set the initial price high though.

[TeamTragic]

Terry Rozier needs to be a sun

Yeah, Rozier, Plumlee, and Oubre for Ayton and Crowder would be good this year and for the future of the Suns.

Wait, what?

You don't mean that.

[BobbieL]

Terry Rozier needs to be a sun

If they can’t get DLo - Rozier makes sense

Shamet Crowder Payne for Rozier and McDaniels
They would buy out Crowder or flip to the bucks perhaps

Maybe the Suns add a protected FRP

[KLEON]

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Yeah! Even with him struggling more than usual, and you still have fans saying .........................Get this guy off our team. I honestly can't wait for Ayton to be traded for these same people to finally see how truly good we'll be without his presence, easy scoring opportunities and efficiency. And the gravity he affords our shooters. The hindsight responses and rationalizations should be very entertaining and comical.

January 29 and 22 is still here.

[TeamTragic]

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[BobbieL]

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BWG been talking aboiut him all season

they can add Zach lavine

[lilfishi22]

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Yeah! Even with him struggling more than usual, and you still have fans saying .........................Get this guy off our team. I honestly can't wait for Ayton to be traded for these same people to finally see how truly good we'll be without his presence, easy scoring opportunities and efficiency. And the gravity he affords our shooters. The hindsight responses and rationalizations should be very entertaining and comical.

Ayton is putting up career lows in

1. steals
2. blocks
3. total rebounds
4. on-off
5. PER

As well as career highs in

turnovers
usage

His measly increase for career highs in free throws and assists is meaningless. Varlock filtering numbers to justify there are only two other players in the NBA with numbers like Ayton is meaningless. Here's my spin:

FiveThirtyEight raptor score for centers with at least 1120 minutes played

#1 of 33 Jokic at 13.3 total raptor
#4 of 33 Sabonis at 4.2 total raptor
#31 of 33 Ayton at -4.9 total raptor

Ayton is a money pit who quit playing defense after he got his bag

2023 average vs Career average:
FTA: 2.9 vs 2.6 (difference of 0.3 fta)
Assists: 2.1 vs 1.7 (difference of 0.4 apg)

In absolute terms, it's an improvement but not exactly the meaningful "career highs" people think of when people talk about career highs.

[lilfishi22]

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I'd be more open to it if I knew he wasn't in the last year of his rookie deal (same as his mate CamJo) and while it's good to have Ishbia on board, I don't feel good about going into the offseason with two RFA's.

[bwgood77]

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For a !st ..................really???

He is playing the best ball of his career. This would be something we'd look at if we parted with Ayton for a guard or forward.

I wouldn't be shocked if we traded Ayton for Rozier and Plumlee this summer.

[bwgood77]

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Interesting. Obviously I mentioned this a bit earlier in the year as I saw it as a possibility given all their guards and White being a pending FA.

Also Zach Lowe just wrote about the big improvements of White as of late in his last "10 things" piece.

[bwgood77]

2023 average vs Career average:
FTA: 2.9 vs 2.6 (difference of 0.3 fta)
Assists: 2.1 vs 1.7 (difference of 0.4 apg)

In absolute terms, it's an improvement but not exactly the meaningful "career highs" people think of when people talk about career highs.

You can't really use career avg when it is increased by this year...obviously it was lower before the increase. Also, per 36 should be used since he left a few games really early due to injury and has fewer mpg this year. Per 36 is assists this year are 2.6 vs 1.8 and 1.7 the last two years...and increase of about 50%. And you using differences when #s are low makes it look..FTA increase per 36 is around 20% (over career avg excluding this year).

Also the decrease in some of those other #s is not terrribly meaningful either. Rebounds, for example, he is at 12.1 per 36, not his career low. Last year is was 12.5, the year before 12.4. The decrease in rebounding, for example, is like 3% as opposed to the 20% and 50%, for FTA an assists. His blocks are the same as last year. He's not much of a shot blocker but this is by design as they want him to contest with arms up and not foul and stay in front of people. Prior to last year his blocks were quite a bit higher. Prior to Paul coming his blocks were more than double.

He is worse this year a bit in some areas but not meaningfully worse in those raw stat areas mentioned.

But his defense often has been poor. And his efficiency has really dropped off from his historic year last year. I do think both have been largely impacted by all the injuries and a shuffling lineup, having to constantly play with different players, particularly the latter (efficiency).

I want to see how he plays when we are more healthy, like before Book went down and he was Western Conference Player of the week.

[kennydorglas]

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Yeah! Even with him struggling more than usual, and you still have fans saying .........................Get this guy off our team. I honestly can't wait for Ayton to be traded for these same people to finally see how truly good we'll be without his presence, easy scoring opportunities and efficiency. And the gravity he affords our shooters. The hindsight responses and rationalizations should be very entertaining and comical.

Ayton is putting up career lows in

1. steals
2. blocks
3. total rebounds
4. on-off
5. PER

As well as career highs in

turnovers
usage

His measly increase for career highs in free throws and assists is meaningless. Varlock filtering numbers to justify there are only two other players in the NBA with numbers like Ayton is meaningless. Here's my spin:

FiveThirtyEight raptor score for centers with at least 1120 minutes played

#1 of 33 Jokic at 13.3 total raptor
#4 of 33 Sabonis at 4.2 total raptor
#31 of 33 Ayton at -4.9 total raptor

Ayton is a money pit who quit playing defense after he got his bag

We can't even be surprised bc he already told us that reaching the 2nd contract was his focus lol.
Pretty crazy this statement wasn't a red flag at all for **** sarver

[bwgood77]

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I'd be more open to it if I knew he wasn't in the last year of his rookie deal (same as his mate CamJo) and while it's good to have Ishbia on board, I don't feel good about going into the offseason with two RFA's.

I don't think he'd get many offers. Most teams have good pg depth. I think he'd get less than Shamet did. More like Payne #s, if not less.

He hasn't been that good overall but still has upside given he was a 1 year college player and is only 22. Would be good to learn from Paul the rest of this year....be around the team I think.

[suns12345]

Read on Twitter

Yeah! Even with him struggling more than usual, and you still have fans saying .........................Get this guy off our team. I honestly can't wait for Ayton to be traded for these same people to finally see how truly good we'll be without his presence, easy scoring opportunities and efficiency. And the gravity he affords our shooters. The hindsight responses and rationalizations should be very entertaining and comical.

Ayton is putting up career lows in

1. steals
2. blocks
3. total rebounds
4. on-off
5. PER

As well as career highs in

turnovers
usage

His measly increase for career highs in free throws and assists is meaningless. Varlock filtering numbers to justify there are only two other players in the NBA with numbers like Ayton is meaningless. Here's my spin:

FiveThirtyEight raptor score for centers with at least 1120 minutes played

#1 of 33 Jokic at 13.3 total raptor
#4 of 33 Sabonis at 4.2 total raptor
#31 of 33 Ayton at -4.9 total raptor

Ayton is a money pit who quit playing defense after he got his bag

We can't even be surprised bc he already told us that reaching the 2nd contract was his focus lol.
Pretty crazy this statement wasn't a red flag at all for **** sarver

I think the concern for me, more than stats and career highs/lows, is that when we needed him to step up with Book, CP3 and Cam out, he did nothing.

He was a number one pick, we're paying him the max - and he doesn't deliver to that standard. I've actually always been an Ayton supporter and still am, but we aren't getting value for money with him sadly.

[kennydorglas]

Ayton is putting up career lows in

1. steals
2. blocks
3. total rebounds
4. on-off
5. PER

As well as career highs in

turnovers
usage

His measly increase for career highs in free throws and assists is meaningless. Varlock filtering numbers to justify there are only two other players in the NBA with numbers like Ayton is meaningless. Here's my spin:

FiveThirtyEight raptor score for centers with at least 1120 minutes played

#1 of 33 Jokic at 13.3 total raptor
#4 of 33 Sabonis at 4.2 total raptor
#31 of 33 Ayton at -4.9 total raptor

Ayton is a money pit who quit playing defense after he got his bag

We can't even be surprised bc he already told us that reaching the 2nd contract was his focus lol.
Pretty crazy this statement wasn't a red flag at all for **** sarver

I think the concern for me, more than stats and career highs/lows, is that when we needed him to step up with Book, CP3 and Cam out, he did nothing.

He was a number one pick, we're paying him the max - and he doesn't deliver to that standard. I've actually always been an Ayton supporter and still am, but we aren't getting value for money with him sadly.

Very similar to Wiggins situation in minny.
He'll never live up to his #1 pick status.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Yeah! Even with him struggling more than usual, and you still have fans saying .........................Get this guy off our team. I honestly can't wait for Ayton to be traded for these same people to finally see how truly good we'll be without his presence, easy scoring opportunities and efficiency. And the gravity he affords our shooters. The hindsight responses and rationalizations should be very entertaining and comical.

January 29 and 22 is still here.

Yeah! I've mentioned this before a few times already, but Ayton simply won't be traded by the deadline because the value return for him simply isn't there currently. On top of that people really also need to consider the new CBA suggestions towards a soft cap, BUT a a lot more severe LT penalties as a byproduct of doing a soft cap instead of just having a hard cap. This is also a major consideration for so much of the inactivity around trades. Because many teams simply don't yet have the new CBA numbers (calculations) on what the finalized penalties will be increased to. And teams are really hesitant to take on big or long term salaries in trades without first knowing how much that may affect their long term cap! IF there's a deal done for Ayton in a trade (which I'm not opposed to IF fair value is inclusive) it will be done this summer prior to the draft and free agency. IF Ayton absolutely needs to be traded though, I'd personally preference:

1-Chicago
Ayton/Crowder for Vucevic/P will/ D Jones Jr/ Portland 23' 1st.

2- New York
Ayton/Crowder for Mitchell/ Rose/ Reddish/Quickly/ Dallas 23' 1st.

3- Toronto
Ayton/ Crowder/ Shamet for Van Vleet/ Trent/ Boucher/ Koloko/ Toronto 23' 1st. (BOTH Barnes and Siakim are capable of initiating the offense for Toronto by the way).

4- Brooklyn
Ayton/Crowder for Simmons/ Claxton/ Philly 23' 1st (via Houston or Philly).

5 - Portland
Ayton/Saric for Nurkic/ Hart/Payton/ Eubanks/ future 1st.

6- Houston
Ayton for Gordon /Eason/ Porter Jr/ Boban/ Milwaukee 23' 1st.

7- New Orleans
Ayton for Valuncias/Graham/Temple/ Liddell/ Seabron.
** Buyout Graham (partial guarantee).
**Like Liddell still as an under the radar Crowder type replacement.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

8- Charlotte
Ayton/Shamet for Rozier/ Oubre/ Williams/ Denver 23' 1st/ Utah 23' 2nd.

*** I put Charlotte last because I've read a lot of reports saying they're targeting Turner currently. So I don't think they'd have much interest in Ayton at his price tag! I'll also say that any lotto teams in need of a center that miss out on Wemby or Scoot could be in play for Ayton. And I'd be down for that value in any trade with them (their lotto pick)!!

[lilfishi22]

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I'd be more open to it if I knew he wasn't in the last year of his rookie deal (same as his mate CamJo) and while it's good to have Ishbia on board, I don't feel good about going into the offseason with two RFA's.

I don't think he'd get many offers. Most teams have good pg depth. I think he'd get less than Shamet did. More like Payne #s, if not less.

He hasn't been that good overall but still has upside given he was a 1 year college player and is only 22. Would be good to learn from Paul the rest of this year....be around the team I think.

I'll grant you this, he's a low-ish risk and medium reward kind of player if we can get him for Crowder. As opposed to DLo for example who is a better player, a higher tier of player but he's also more expensive to retain in all likelihood.

[kennydorglas]

Coby white doesn't move the needle at all for me.
One trick pony like Shamet.