Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[sofargone]

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[hyper316]

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Interesting twitter account, I looked up for PGs, FVV's score is right around where Pascal is at. FVV in the middle of the pack

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[Tha Cynic]

Some of yall talk about Scottie being a number one option like he will try and be Kobe when Shaq left. He would play like Jokic who is technically the 1st option but doesn't take the most shots on his team. He only takes 15 shots a game but the offense runs through him. Scottie is too smart to do things he is not good at and hijack the offense and always look for his. The ball is better in his hands to start positions than anyone else on this roster. 1st option has yall thinking 1st in shot attempts, 1st in dribbles, 1st in time of possession case Pascal/Fred has conditioned us.

Yeah, I don't get some of the comparisons here. We're talking about Wagner and Jalen Green as better offensive weapon for their teams which completely misses what Barnes does on the floor.

Green is a volume scorer who has no clue how to play the right way and Wagner is well on his way to being a good scorer on a bad team or a 4th or 5th option on a good team. He's not going to lead your team anywhere.

Barnes has shown numerous times that he can win you ball games multiple ways and none of those have ever been as some lethal shooter.

I mean isn't Scottie technically the 4th option on a bad team lol ?

I'm talking future.

[Tha Cynic]

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This is kind of why fans want his usage in decision making areas to increase while reducing that of others. We're. It looking for Barnes to score 25 a game, but to turn this messy offense around.

[TorontoBarneys]

that chart makes me think Dyson/Barnes would be a nice duo to watch and see grow. If both of them would become league average 3pt shooters they would become deadly. We should really be gunning for that Dyson/Murphy III/LAL 1st package for OG at all costs.

That would make us tremendously talented.

[Madvillainy2004]

What a miracle it is that Barnes is looking so good with basketball war criminals like Nurse, Siakam and FVV actively trying to keep him down!

He’d be averaging 24/8/8 on 60% TS as the main option

That is actively not true lmfao he's not even at 60 TS% his last like 8 games

[Yeezus_]

that chart makes me think Dyson/Barnes would be a nice duo to watch and see grow. If both of them would become league average 3pt shooters they would become deadly. We should really be gunning for that Dyson/Murphy III/LAL 1st package for OG at all costs.

That would make us tremendously talented.

Dyson, Murphy AND the Lakers 23 first for OG? No way the Pels do that, that's a lot to give up.

[hyper316]

that chart makes me think Dyson/Barnes would be a nice duo to watch and see grow. If both of them would become league average 3pt shooters they would become deadly. We should really be gunning for that Dyson/Murphy III/LAL 1st package for OG at all costs.

That would make us tremendously talented.

Dyson, Murphy AND the Lakers 23 first for OG? No way the Pels do that, that's a lot to give up.

I'm not sure Pels will trade Murphy alone for OG, Murphy (.634 TS%) is already more efficient than OG (.562 TS%). Defense wise Murphy is pretty good

[Los_29]

that chart makes me think Dyson/Barnes would be a nice duo to watch and see grow. If both of them would become league average 3pt shooters they would become deadly. We should really be gunning for that Dyson/Murphy III/LAL 1st package for OG at all costs.

That would make us tremendously talented.

Dyson, Murphy AND the Lakers 23 first for OG? No way the Pels do that, that's a lot to give up.

I'm not sure Pels will trade Murphy alone for OG, Murphy (.634 TS%) is already more efficient than OG (.562 TS%). Defense wise Murphy is pretty good

They’d definitely do that. That TS% is largely due to the type of shots Murphy takes. If OG had that same role he’d be just as efficient. His TS% in 2019 and 2020 was Above 60%.

I agree though, no way the Pelicans give up that much for OG. That Lakers pick is extremely valuable on its own.

[hyper316]

Dyson, Murphy AND the Lakers 23 first for OG? No way the Pels do that, that's a lot to give up.

I'm not sure Pels will trade Murphy alone for OG, Murphy (.634 TS%) is already more efficient than OG (.562 TS%). Defense wise Murphy is pretty good

They’d definitely do that. That TS% is largely due to the type of shots Murphy takes. If OG had that same role he’d be just as efficient. His TS% in 2019 and 2020 was Above 60%.

I agree though, no way the Pelicans give up that much for OG. That Lakers pick is extremely valuable on its own.

I think that's the problem with OG, he should just stick to 3s and steal/dunks. His iso 2pt attempts are so bad, half of the time it's either an offensive foul or lose control of the ball. There's no advantage taking inefficient 2s other than getting his points total up for a bigger contract. Trent, Siakam, and Barnes are much better options for iso 2s

[dTox]

Opposed to what?

Cunningham gets usage and loses.
Green gets usage and loses.
Wagner gets usage and loses.
Mobley is even lower on the pecking order in Cleveland.

Scottie is just better

Scottie would look horrible with that level of usage and thos teammates

How can you write with so much certainty?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Plain Old Josh]

january stats:

18.2 pts (51.3 fg%, 31 3fg%, 76.2 ft%, 58.8 TS%)
7.4 rebs, 5.7 asts, 1.5 to's, 1.1 stls, 1.3 blks, +5.7, 118.7 ortg, 111.2 drtg, +7.5 net, 19.3 usg%

[YogurtProducer]

Scottie is just better

Scottie would look horrible with that level of usage and thos teammates

How can you write with so much certainty?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Because it’s common sense. A guy who’s barely asked to create offence yet still isn’t even average efficiency wise is thrusted into a main creation role - it’s just asking for issues.

How many guys in the nba are in the high 20%’s usage wise without a jumpshot and are successful? It’s pretty much freaks like Giannis/Zion, and that’s it. It’s just nearly impossible for a guy to take on that much of the offense without any shot.

[Vampirate]

Some of yall talk about Scottie being a number one option like he will try and be Kobe when Shaq left. He would play like Jokic who is technically the 1st option but doesn't take the most shots on his team. He only takes 15 shots a game but the offense runs through him. Scottie is too smart to do things he is not good at and hijack the offense and always look for his. The ball is better in his hands to start positions than anyone else on this roster. 1st option has yall thinking 1st in shot attempts, 1st in dribbles, 1st in time of possession case Pascal/Fred has conditioned us.

Yeah, I don't get some of the comparisons here. We're talking about Wagner and Jalen Green as better offensive weapon for their teams which completely misses what Barnes does on the floor.

Green is a volume scorer who has no clue how to play the right way and Wagner is well on his way to being a good scorer on a bad team or a 4th or 5th option on a good team. He's not going to lead your team anywhere.

Barnes has shown numerous times that he can win you ball games multiple ways and none of those have ever been as some lethal shooter.

I mean isn't Scottie technically the 4th option on a bad team lol ?

After Siakam it gets pretty dicey.

Siakam pre 2023 was basically playing as a 5th option, post 2023 here's playing as good as a 2nd option.

He's really turned his season around offensively. I'd even say he's better right now offensively than he was last year even though the stats say otherwise because of that horrid November he had.

He obviously needs to keep this up but an encouraging sign is his deep midrange is now respectable. From 16-3P range he's at .340% so he actually has range. He may never develop a 3 but he also might not have to as he's pretty good close up.

If he does develop a 3 he might be entering top 10 player status sometime probably as he'd be pretty unstoppable. I'm not holding my breath of the 3, but his midrange is encouraging.

[Tha Cynic]

Scottie would look horrible with that level of usage and thos teammates

How can you write with so much certainty?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Because it’s common sense. A guy who’s barely asked to create offence yet still isn’t even average efficiency wise is thrusted into a main creation role - it’s just asking for issues.

How many guys in the nba are in the high 20%’s usage wise without a jumpshot and are successful? It’s pretty much freaks like Giannis/Zion, and that’s it. It’s just nearly impossible for a guy to take on that much of the offense without any shot.

Not really. This is a very close minded way of looking at it. Barnes does have a jumper. It's just not very good yet, and that's fine. He can still use that jumper as a weapon.

The other great thing is that this team doesn't have any player who has a TS% above league average, so may as well try it with the guy who actually does a great job of moving the ball, finding players in great spots and gives them the ball in a great shooting rhythm. Everything says Barnes and GTJ should be featured a lot more on offense than they currently are.

The argument against Barnes taking on a bigger offensive role doesn't mean he has to always shoot it or score, and also doesn't exactly take from anything great that's currently happening on the team right now.

[HiJiNX]

I am fully aboard the Scottie train and want to see him running the offense more and more, but there's something to be said for not just handing him the reins from the get go. he clearly did not have the offensive drive to dominate when he came into the league, but by making him want more, making him crave that role by not giving it to him, and making him earn it by going out there and showing what he can do, well I support that approach. He is growing into his offense and his leadership and that is fine. having said that at this point he has paid a fair amount of dues and is figuring it out, and understanding what is needed of him, and he is clearly ready for a much bigger load in the second half of this season.

This is all people are saying. Barnes wasn’t ready before and his development probably would have been negatively impacted by giving him the keys at that time. However, Barnes is proving that he’s definitely ready for an increased role and can handle lead reps. In fact, I think the team is starting to move in this direction. Go look at whose hands the ball was in to start the 3rd Q against Portland yesterday—it was Barnes. That was very eye opening for me considering Fred was having a good game to that point and Siakam is Siakam. Yet it was Barnes who was the initiator to start the 3rd.

I just hope Fred and Siakam are ready to relinquish some possessions as Scottie continues to prove that our team is better off with him getting reps as the hub.

[YogurtProducer]

Not really. This is a very close minded way of looking at it. Barnes does have a jumper. It's just not very good yet, and that's fine. He can still use that jumper as a weapon.

So.... he has a jumper but it is not good. AKA - he does not have a jumper?

The other great thing is that this team doesn't have any player who has a TS% above league average, so may as well try it with the guy who actually does a great job of moving the ball, finding players in great spots and gives them the ball in a great shooting rhythm. Everything says Barnes and GTJ should be featured a lot more on offense than they currently are.

So the argument is "we have no players with a TS% above league average, so we should promote the starter with the worst TS% to take on more offensive responsibility?

The argument against Barnes taking on a bigger offensive role doesn't mean he has to always shoot it or score, and also doesn't exactly take from anything great that's currently happening on the team right now.

Outside of Siakam, FVV/GTJ/Barnes/OG are pretty much 2a/2b/2c/2d. They are all within 2% of each other in usage. Pretty much because no one other than Siakam has more than 1 above average offensive skill and none of them deserve more usage than they get. GTJ/Barnes are like the opposites of each other. One does not know how to pass, the other to shoot. Barnes would be exposed pretty significantly if he was given the ball and expected to make plays happen every time down the floor. As long as he is as inefficient as he is, he cannot operate as a #1.

Granted, January has been a revelation. 18/7/6 on 59TS% is a fantastic line for a guy. It is reminiscent of where Siakam was on the championship team as a shared 2a/2b option type guy who was a 17/7/3 on 63TS% guy.

Scottie's time is coming - but the worst thing we can do is throw him into situations that set him up for failure. It is not something this franchise has ever done and it has worked out well, so I don't know why they would change it with Scottie.

[blastttOFF]

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This is kind of why fans want his usage in decision making areas to increase while reducing that of others. We're. It looking for Barnes to score 25 a game, but to turn this messy offense around.

Pascal in rare air with Lebron and Malik monk

[Syd-TK3]

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Interesting twitter account, I looked up for PGs, FVV's score is right around where Pascal is at. FVV in the middle of the pack

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Biggest difference is Scottie and Siakam are elite for their position while Fred is just slightly above average for his

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

If you're looking for Scottie to be your teams leading scorer that will not happen. Atleast not a good team.

He may be your best player, but he's not going to be your leading scorer, and that's quite alright. You can still build around that. The brilliance of Scottie is that he does a little bit of everything, as a connector, at high energy.

He's really upped his game by making quick decisions, and still making the right decision. He's not wasting time, or wasting movements.

I think Scottie has the potential to eventually be the leading scorer of the team and to do it in an efficient way at least in terms of overall FG% which I think his can hover around 50% even at higher usage. I think the rest of it comes down to how his 3 point shot develops which I'm uncertain about but also his ability to get to the charity stripe which I am more certain is going to be very strong. I don't have a difficult time envisioning him getting to the line 7.5-8 times a game at the peak of his career. I know that might sound crazy seeing as how he is currently averaging only 3.4 FTA a game but his ability to power his way to the basket and draw contact is quite strong when he plays confidently and assertively. He doesn't beat you with athleticism and agility as much as by bullying you and with touch. I think it's in Scottie's nature to defer but if his brain can be rewired and he can learn to be "the guy" it's entirely possible he can be the leading scorer on the team as he has the toolkit, IQ and touch to score the ball efficiently which is what warrants allowing a player more FGAs per game to the point where they become your leader in PPG.