Trade Deadline Rumours & Discussion Thread II

Tor_Raps · Post #381 » by **Tor_Raps** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=x4GdMN8FrzzhmfphIyxwAA

I know our first instinct is to be mad towards the news but there are just too many reports for something to not be a problem here. Masai/Nurse needs to get a grip of their locker room. This isn't a good look for everyone involved. Ship out the troublemakers and tank if we have to.

Son Goku 25 · Post #382 » by **Son Goku 25** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:51 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=x4GdMN8FrzzhmfphIyxwAA

Makes sense, not surprising they play like they don't like each other and are sick of it.

It goes back to what we fans observed watching them and then Nurse playing them 40 mins a game not helping the case. New reports from shams saying there may be some friction with Nurse and FO seems real. I think Masai gotta get rid of the garbage and fix this before it gets worse. Remove this me first attitude when you aren't even that good.

Tor_Raps · Post #383 » by **Tor_Raps** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm

Son Goku 25 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=x4GdMN8FrzzhmfphIyxwAA

Makes sense, not surprising they play like they don't like each other and are sick of it.

It goes back to what we fans observed watching them and then Nurse playing them 40 mins a game not helping the case. New reports from shams saying there may be some friction with Nurse and FO seems real. I think Masai gotta get rid of the garbage and fix this before it gets worse. Remove this me first attitude when you aren't even that good.

Exactly. I've never seen such selfish basketball from guys who aren't even that good. Funny enough that our 2 best players (Siakam/Barnes) are the best passers on the team. That should tell you enough about the rest.

Zeno · Post #384 » by **Zeno** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:55 pm

How about this...

Nurkic, Winslow, Hart, Sharpe and Portland 2025 for OG, Boucher, Khem, Flynn.

The money is dead even. Don't love taking on Nurkic but if we move him to a straight platoon role with Precious that could work. He's like 13% of the cap for four years but it isn't a horrifically negative deal with the cap going up.

ItsDanger · Post #385 » by **ItsDanger** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:59 pm

Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

fbalmeida · Post #386 » by **fbalmeida** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:00 pm

Reports of several players being unhappy and noise about Nurse.

Anybody want to guess who is going to make an appearance this time at the next post-game presser at home?

Los_29 · Post #387 » by **Los_29** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:02 pm

Son Goku 25 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=x4GdMN8FrzzhmfphIyxwAA

Makes sense, not surprising they play like they don't like each other and are sick of it.

It goes back to what we fans observed watching them and then Nurse playing them 40 mins a game not helping the case. New reports from shams saying there may be some friction with Nurse and FO seems real. I think Masai gotta get rid of the garbage and fix this before it gets worse. Remove this me first attitude when you aren't even that good.

Something must've changed because the last three games, the chemistry appears to be way better. Let's hope this can continue.

traps#10 · Post #388 » by **traps#10** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:03 pm

If I was a young player on the team, I wouldn’t be happy with Nurse’s rotation. Overplaying starters with heavy minutes, not subbing them out early enough in blowouts.

Yeezus_ · Post #389 » by **Yeezus_** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:09 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

What about last season when they collectively outperformed expectations?

ItsDanger · Post #390 » by **ItsDanger** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:11 pm

Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

What about last season when they collectively outperformed expectations?

Did they have pending UFAs last season? Time has elapsed and player's individual goals evolve.

ChillPill · Post #391 » by **ChillPill** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:11 pm

I think Nurse and the front-office have been hand-in-hand on which players they target. There's a pattern with both of being ultra-selective. Nurse just won't play most of the bench. Even when our starters are half-dead. While the front office won't get players who could obviously improve the team, even if marginally (like a center or back-up guard)

Yeezus_ · Post #392 » by **Yeezus_** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:14 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

What about last season when they collectively outperformed expectations?

Did they have pending UFAs last season? Time has elapsed and player's individual goals evolve.

If anything, playing well as a team boosts your trade value as it shows you can impact winning in positive ways.

The offense is very similar to last season so I don't agree with your stance.

Los_29 · Post #393 » by **Los_29** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:17 pm

ItsDanger wrote:
Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

What about last season when they collectively outperformed expectations?

Did they have pending UFAs last season?

If that actually mattered, we should be playing better.

Jadoogar · Post #394 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:17 pm

Zeno wrote:How about this...

Nurkic, Winslow, Hart, Sharpe and Portland 2025 for OG, Boucher, Khem, Flynn.

The money is dead even. Don't love taking on Nurkic but if we move him to a straight platoon role with Precious that could work. He's like 13% of the cap for four years but it isn't a horrifically negative deal with the cap going up.

It's too much from Portland's side. They lose 3 rotation players plus 2 quality assets for 1 starter and 1 bench player (Khem and flynn have negative value). Nurkic might be overpaid but he's their only real center. This would leave them with a lineup of Dame/Simons/OG/Grant/Eubanks with Boucher and GPII as the only reliable bench players. That's not a good enough team to go all in for.

ItsDanger · Post #395 » by **ItsDanger** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:19 pm

Los_29 wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:
Yeezus_ wrote:What about last season when they collectively outperformed expectations?

Did they have pending UFAs last season?

If that actually mattered, we should be playing better.

Not in my experience, playing winning basketball requires most players on the team to sacrifice individual stats.

Harcore Fenton Mun · Post #396 » by **Harcore Fenton Mun** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:19 pm

It's funny that Nurse is now being brought into focus, with guys like OG and Trent and Fred.

Three of these four, for now at least...are with Klutch.

Jadoogar · Post #397 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:25 pm

Yeezus_ wrote:
ItsDanger wrote:Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

What about last season when they collectively outperformed expectations?

East has gotten better this year. Last year we finished above:
Nets - kyrie was in and out of the lineup, then simmons didn't play for the second half
Cavs - they were better than us for most of the season until they got the injury bug. They also added Mitchell this season
Hawks - big disappointment last year and added an allstar in the summer
Pacers - improved after having Haliburton for the full season

Teams that were above us last year are still above us this year (Celtics, Bucks, Sixers, Heat)

These teams all improved in the summer (whether through new additions or health) and we stayed the same. Staying the same while other teams improve is taking a step back.

Furthermore, our players have played insane amount of minutes and it's starting to take a toll. Opposing teams have figured out our scrambling, turnover focused defense and have adjusted. The lack of rim protector is really showing more this year.

Raptors are absolutely less than a sum of their parts due to the poor fit. Our top 6 are good to great players in a vacuum but they just have too many overlapping skill sets. It worked last season when we caught teams by surprise and other teams had their own issues to deal with (detailed above).

Bruin · Post #398 » by **Bruin** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:25 pm

ItsDanger wrote:Raps roster is the anti "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

But that culture tho!

Zeno · Post #399 » by **Zeno** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:27 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
Zeno wrote:How about this...

Nurkic, Winslow, Hart, Sharpe and Portland 2025 for OG, Boucher, Khem, Flynn.

The money is dead even. Don't love taking on Nurkic but if we move him to a straight platoon role with Precious that could work. He's like 13% of the cap for four years but it isn't a horrifically negative deal with the cap going up.

It's too much from Portland's side. They lose 3 rotation players plus 2 quality assets for 1 starter and 1 bench player (Khem and flynn have negative value). Nurkic might be overpaid but he's their only real center. This would leave them with a lineup of Dame/Simons/OG/Grant/Eubanks with Boucher and GPII as the only reliable bench players. That's not a good enough team to go all in for.

I think the value is equal but I see your point. OG is definitely that best player in there and Hart for Boucher is a slight win for Portland as a straight up trade because Boucher has a declining contract and Hart will opt out this summer. I don't care about Winslow, he was just a fill in salary filler so maybe they can make the salary work otherwise. Flynn is from the region and might work in a different situation. A neutral/slight positive contract. Khem is one year so not really import to the deal. Sharpe is not a positive rotation piece right now so it wouldn't hurt them on the court. The stumbling block is Nurkic/replacing him. They want to move him and how they replace him while trading him out will be interesting.

Dalek · Post #400 » by **Dalek** » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:31 pm

One consideration is that if Toronto does part with OG, he leaves Toronto with a huge defensive gap to fill. I think what Toronto should look at is acquiring a player that can help on the defensive end. It might be why we have a combo of rumors or elite defensive players like Poeltl incoming while OG outgoing.

The better play to me, one where we target the best player long-term, should trump going for an middling draft assets like late protected firsts. Barring some crazy New Orleans offer, I really like Toronto and Cleveland trading with each other. Cleveland is such a natural fit given that Okoro's best outcome would be to end up like OG. Also, long-term you don't know if Cleveland's frontcourt exactly makes sense in the playoffs.

Jarret Allen to Toronto
OG Anunoby to Cleveland

Toronto gets the best defensive replacement with a contract that is signed for 4 years, while Cleveland gets its elite shooter/defender for the future. I don't think any draft comp. is needed because value-wise, I think it is even.