Greater Accomplishment: Lebron's 4 or Duncan's 5?

[xAIRNESSx]

Cause maybe other free agents didnt want to leave their teams or chose other franchises to sign with. Your turn

So while most players that want to win try to force themselves to successful teams, LeBron for some reason tried to force himself to bad teams that had assets. And he did this because he was ring chasing?

LeBron got injured in his first year in LA. They were a top 4 team in the West before he got hurt. And I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. That LeBron wanted to play with good players? The point is he wanted to play for the Lakers because he wanted to live in LA.

Love and Kyrie are not a better situation than Bosh and Wade. That's the point. He wanted to win in Cleveland. That was his primary reason for going to the Cavs. Not because they were the best situation for him to win a ring.

Who was Kevin Loves best teammate in Minnesota?
Who was Kyrie Irvings best teammate in Cleveland before James and Love?

Wade and Bosh were not the same players in 2014 than they were in 2011/2012. Wade had knee issues and Bosh had a medical condition. Thats why James left Miami.

James played 55 games in LA his first year in LA. They were .500 in games he played that year.

He set himself up for a good situation in Cleveland and he couldnt win in LA without Davis. Sorry but this is the way it is. You never answered my questions either.

Your question is irrelevant. You tell me, who were their best teammates?

Bosh's medical condition didn't get discovered until after LeBron left, so not sure why you're bringing that up. Wade was still a better player than Kyrie.

So the Lakers weren't a top 4 team in the West before LeBron got hurt?

[xAIRNESSx]

And if you're making the point that LeBron couldn't win in his first year in LA, doesn't that show it wasn't a good situation to go to?

The AD trade wasn't guaranteed. The Pelicans almost didn't trade him to the Lakers out of spite.

[G35]

Lebron has consistently forced his teams to spend money to get him more help. That has not been the case for Tim Duncan, in fact you could say that the Spurs went the el cheapo route by relying on draft pick steals.

This is why what Tim Duncan has done is so impressive:

- Duncan didn't jump from team to team
- Duncan played in a small market that did over spend
- Duncan played for a coach that drafted a lot of foreign players when it was not popular to do so
- Many times Duncan himself was not being paid like a top 5 or 10 player

Again you're just describing a very successful front office.

What young guy of any talent did Lebron teams trade away? What young guys played around him?

Kawhi Leonard was drafted in 2011. So you are saying the Spurs were able to win three titles from 2000-2011, 10+ years off of two draft picks, a late 1st rounder and a late 2nd rounder. That is a lazy front office, if you expect any superstar to win based off two draft picks and not even lottery draft picks. Lebron certainly can't claim that.

But then are you saying Steph Curry didn't have anything to do with the Warriors winning those titles, and it was all the Warriors front office?
Klay Thompson (lottery pick)
Draymond Green (2nd rd pick) right here is equal to Manu and Tony Parker but wait, there's more

Harrison Barnes (lottery pick)
Andrew Bogut
Andre Iguodola
Shaun Livingston
Kevin Looney - this is the 2015-2016 team but wait there's even more

Kevin Durant (top 25 player all time) - this accounts for two more titles but wait there's more

Jordan Poole
Andrew Wiggins

Do you see how many lottery picks and 1st round talent that the Warriors put around Steph? And he still only has four titles. The Warriors are paying crazy amounts of money in the luxury tax. The Spurs AVOIDED paying the luxury tax as long as possible. The Warriors ran towards the luxury tax.

Because Duncan fills so many holes on a team:
- Leader this is the #1 thing Duncan did for the Spurs is provide leadership
- A go-to scorer
- GOAT level defense
- Availability, Duncan rarely got hurt
- Longevity, he's in the conversation for top players; Lebron has played 1406 games and Duncan played 1392 games and this is with two strike years and Duncan playing one less season

The only other player that I can think of that can compare to Duncan is Kareem. No one else fills as many holes on a team as Duncan.....

[nikster]

Again you're just describing a very successful front office.

What young guy of any talent did Lebron teams trade away? What young guys played around him?

Kawhi Leonard was drafted in 2011. So you are saying the Spurs were able to win three titles from 2000-2011, 10+ years off of two draft picks, a late 1st rounder and a late 2nd rounder. That is a lazy front office, if you expect any superstar to win based off two draft picks and not even lottery draft picks. Lebron certainly can't claim that.

But then are you saying Steph Curry didn't have anything to do with the Warriors winning those titles, and it was all the Warriors front office?
Klay Thompson (lottery pick)
Draymond Green (2nd rd pick) right here is equal to Manu and Tony Parker but wait, there's more

Harrison Barnes (lottery pick)
Andrew Bogut
Andre Iguodola
Shaun Livingston
Kevin Looney - this is the 2015-2016 team but wait there's even more

Kevin Durant (top 25 player all time) - this accounts for two more titles but wait there's more

Jordan Poole
Andrew Wiggins

Do you see how many lottery picks and 1st round talent that the Warriors put around Steph? And he still only has four titles. The Warriors are paying crazy amounts of money in the luxury tax. The Spurs AVOIDED paying the luxury tax as long as possible. The Warriors ran towards the luxury tax.

Because Duncan fills so many holes on a team:
- Leader this is the #1 thing Duncan did for the Spurs is provide leadership
- A go-to scorer
- GOAT level defense
- Availability, Duncan rarely got hurt
- Longevity, he's in the conversation for top players; Lebron has played 1406 games and Duncan played 1392 games and this is with two strike years and Duncan playing one less season

The only other player that I can think of that can compare to Duncan is Kareem. No one else fills as many holes on a team as Duncan.....

No and no. Thanks for not showing interest in understanding my point

[Goomba3666]

Lebron doesn't go to Cleveland in 2015 if Bron doesn't think he can dominate the East again.

[MavsDirk41]

So while most players that want to win try to force themselves to successful teams, LeBron for some reason tried to force himself to bad teams that had assets. And he did this because he was ring chasing?

LeBron got injured in his first year in LA. They were a top 4 team in the West before he got hurt. And I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. That LeBron wanted to play with good players? The point is he wanted to play for the Lakers because he wanted to live in LA.

Love and Kyrie are not a better situation than Bosh and Wade. That's the point. He wanted to win in Cleveland. That was his primary reason for going to the Cavs. Not because they were the best situation for him to win a ring.

Who was Kevin Loves best teammate in Minnesota?
Who was Kyrie Irvings best teammate in Cleveland before James and Love?

Wade and Bosh were not the same players in 2014 than they were in 2011/2012. Wade had knee issues and Bosh had a medical condition. Thats why James left Miami.

James played 55 games in LA his first year in LA. They were .500 in games he played that year.

He set himself up for a good situation in Cleveland and he couldnt win in LA without Davis. Sorry but this is the way it is. You never answered my questions either.

Your question is irrelevant. You tell me, who were their best teammates?

Bosh's medical condition didn't get discovered until after LeBron left, so not sure why you're bringing that up. Wade was still a better player than Kyrie.

So the Lakers weren't a top 4 team in the West before LeBron got hurt?

Loves best teammate was Kevin Martin. Kyries was Dion Waiters. Kyrie was in his 3rd year so he was much younger than Wade. Wade was slowing down. James is a mercenary always looking for the best situation for himself. Sorry we dont agree.

[MavsDirk41]

Lebron doesn't go to Cleveland in 2015 if Bron doesn't think he can dominate the East again.

Exactly

[xAIRNESSx]

Who was Kevin Loves best teammate in Minnesota?
Who was Kyrie Irvings best teammate in Cleveland before James and Love?

Wade and Bosh were not the same players in 2014 than they were in 2011/2012. Wade had knee issues and Bosh had a medical condition. Thats why James left Miami.

James played 55 games in LA his first year in LA. They were .500 in games he played that year.

He set himself up for a good situation in Cleveland and he couldnt win in LA without Davis. Sorry but this is the way it is. You never answered my questions either.

Your question is irrelevant. You tell me, who were their best teammates?

Bosh's medical condition didn't get discovered until after LeBron left, so not sure why you're bringing that up. Wade was still a better player than Kyrie.

So the Lakers weren't a top 4 team in the West before LeBron got hurt?

Loves best teammate was Kevin Martin. Kyries was Dion Waiters. Kyrie was in his 3rd year so he was much younger than Wade. Wade was slowing down. James is a mercenary always looking for the best situation for himself. Sorry we dont agree.

It’s just contradictory. If LeBron only cared about winning, he could’ve stayed in Miami or found better situations. Cleveland also had to clear cap space to sign him, so it’s not like any other team couldn’t have as well.

It feels like you’ve started with the conclusion and pick your facts to support it. It’s kind of mind blowing that people think Cleveland was such a great situation that LeBron would go play for an owner he completely hates, just because it was too good to pass up.

[xAIRNESSx]

Sit this out it’s obvious the media runs your mind if you believe that nonsense

Sorry that facts hurt your brain.

How is anything you said facts when it’s literally an opinion.

It’s embarrassing that you think he when there to fix something like they didn’t have Kyrie who broke out as a top 30 player and had lebron love already basically traded for

This is how much your LeBron hate has blinded you.

You think it’s some huge compliment when I say LeBron primarily went back to Cleveland to try and fix his image. If I was as biased as you, I might have said he went back to keep his promise about bringing a championship to Cleveland.

But you’d rather stick with the argument that ‘LeBron ring chaser, therefore everything LeBron does is to maximize ring chasing’.

[ItsDanger]

Greater accomplishment is having 3+ LeBron threads at all times on GB 1st page.

[floppymoose]

I love TP and Manu but let's be real, they were probably never top 15 players in the league at the same time as Duncan.

I definitely have Manu as top15 for some of Duncan's championships.

[dc]

I love TP and Manu but let's be real, they were probably never top 15 players in the league at the same time as Duncan.

I definitely have Manu as top15 for some of Duncan's championships.

Also keep in mind: Lebron was MVP in all of his Finals wins. Duncan was the MVP of his first 3 Finals wins, but Parker was MVP in 2007 and Kawhi in 2014.

Duncan was still playing at a high level in 2007, but he was a bit declined from his true superstar level in 2005. In 2014, he was a high level role player.

[sam_I_am]

Greater accomplishment: Duncan’s 1 or Lebron’s 6?

Tim Duncan 5-1 in finals series. Lebron James 4-6.
Tim Duncan 23-11 in finals games. Lebron 22-33.

Tough question. Getting to finals 10 times is pretty amazing even if he lost so many.

[Joao Saraiva]

I'll take LeBron's and here is why.

Tim Duncan was not FMVP 4 times, and that itself legacy wise is better for LeBron.

LBJ did beat GSW in 16. Against a 73 win team. After being down 3-1. That is possibily the finals with most added value.

On the other rings... Tim Duncan's win in 14 adds a ton of value being against the Heat big 3, but again he wasn't FMVP.
05 is probably the biggest win, and a very good one but Det lacks star power. I'm not saying we shouldn't praise it high as hell, but then again legacy wise it can't be comparable to the 16 ring.
99 was against an 8th seed missing Ewing and 03 against the Nets that were swept by LA a year ago.

I can see people who say Tim Duncan stayed with one franchise and that he is very coachable (he is, and those intangibles should raise his legacy) but then again he was lucky enough to play with Robinson from the begining, then Parker and Manu and later also with Kawih. Within a franchise that worked to perfection (he was also a reason why however).

Even so he was close to going to Orlando. Can you imagine if he started with those Cleveland? He either goes away or we haven't a 5 ring discussion in the proccess.

Do you think Lebron if he switched places with Duncan would have been able to beat the '99 lakers,'03 Lakers, '05 Pistons??

Idk. He entered the league a lot more raw and younger so I don't think 99 goes the Spurs' way. On the others... fit is a lot diferent. Duncan with Parker and Manu is a two guard/PF combo that works really well. Parker is not a shooter so I don't think he and LBJ work well.

If you ask however if the Spurs could be successfull by drafting him... I guess yes. Roster would have to be diferent. Do you think Duncan takes the 07 Cavs to the finals? Wins 66 in 09? Is able to get to the finals and steal two games with Mozgov and TT?

That goes both ways.

[Synciere]

It doesn't matter how you end up in a good to great situation, the result is still the same.

Duncan went to a team that had a Hall of Famer and an All Star which was already a contender. His first chip was a gimme. That said, he did have to go up against all time great(s) and teams like the Shaq and Kobe Lakers.

Meanwhile Lebron was hamstrung for the first seven or eight years of his career by having to play on the Cavs who weren't able to put a winner around him. He had to leave in order to succeed. Those Heat teams were great, but clearly they weren't as dominant as it seemed in the beginning because they lost two of the four trips to the Finals. Wade falling off a cliff screwed Lebron in that regard. However, his Cleveland chip might be the most earned of them all, and put him on MJ's level, the only one to come close.

I have Lebron's chips as slightly better, but this is a wash.

[G35]

Again you're just describing a very successful front office.

What young guy of any talent did Lebron teams trade away? What young guys played around him?

Kawhi Leonard was drafted in 2011. So you are saying the Spurs were able to win three titles from 2000-2011, 10+ years off of two draft picks, a late 1st rounder and a late 2nd rounder. That is a lazy front office, if you expect any superstar to win based off two draft picks and not even lottery draft picks. Lebron certainly can't claim that.

But then are you saying Steph Curry didn't have anything to do with the Warriors winning those titles, and it was all the Warriors front office?
Klay Thompson (lottery pick)
Draymond Green (2nd rd pick) right here is equal to Manu and Tony Parker but wait, there's more

Harrison Barnes (lottery pick)
Andrew Bogut
Andre Iguodola
Shaun Livingston
Kevin Looney - this is the 2015-2016 team but wait there's even more

Kevin Durant (top 25 player all time) - this accounts for two more titles but wait there's more

Jordan Poole
Andrew Wiggins

Do you see how many lottery picks and 1st round talent that the Warriors put around Steph? And he still only has four titles. The Warriors are paying crazy amounts of money in the luxury tax. The Spurs AVOIDED paying the luxury tax as long as possible. The Warriors ran towards the luxury tax.

Because Duncan fills so many holes on a team:
- Leader this is the #1 thing Duncan did for the Spurs is provide leadership
- A go-to scorer
- GOAT level defense
- Availability, Duncan rarely got hurt
- Longevity, he's in the conversation for top players; Lebron has played 1406 games and Duncan played 1392 games and this is with two strike years and Duncan playing one less season

The only other player that I can think of that can compare to Duncan is Kareem. No one else fills as many holes on a team as Duncan.....

No and no. Thanks for not showing interest in understanding my point

Your point is to make alibi's for Lebron and you are doing it spectacularly.....

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I love TP and Manu but let's be real, they were probably never top 15 players in the league at the same time as Duncan.

I definitely have Manu as top15 for some of Duncan's championships.

Also keep in mind: Lebron was MVP in all of his Finals wins. Duncan was the MVP of his first 3 Finals wins, but Parker was MVP in 2007 and Kawhi in 2014.

Duncan was still playing at a high level in 2007, but he was a bit declined from his true superstar level in 2005. In 2014, he was a high level role player.

2007 Duncan was still the best player in the league. Cavs were trash outside LeBron. It was more like, here, Tony, you kill these guys. They were still very much the Tim Duncans, though. TD just didn’t care about stats or awards.

[SuperPawgHunter]

Two players I deem overrated, but I'll say Duncan's five, because Duncan had to make it work with what he had. Lebron tossed away his teams when they were no longer looking like contenders, and pressured the new team into a top heavy roster. No other legend, in their prime, ran around the league like Lebron, yet he has less rings than guys who played for the same team their entire careers.

[nikster]

Kawhi Leonard was drafted in 2011. So you are saying the Spurs were able to win three titles from 2000-2011, 10+ years off of two draft picks, a late 1st rounder and a late 2nd rounder. That is a lazy front office, if you expect any superstar to win based off two draft picks and not even lottery draft picks. Lebron certainly can't claim that.

But then are you saying Steph Curry didn't have anything to do with the Warriors winning those titles, and it was all the Warriors front office?
Klay Thompson (lottery pick)
Draymond Green (2nd rd pick) right here is equal to Manu and Tony Parker but wait, there's more

Harrison Barnes (lottery pick)
Andrew Bogut
Andre Iguodola
Shaun Livingston
Kevin Looney - this is the 2015-2016 team but wait there's even more

Kevin Durant (top 25 player all time) - this accounts for two more titles but wait there's more

Jordan Poole
Andrew Wiggins

Do you see how many lottery picks and 1st round talent that the Warriors put around Steph? And he still only has four titles. The Warriors are paying crazy amounts of money in the luxury tax. The Spurs AVOIDED paying the luxury tax as long as possible. The Warriors ran towards the luxury tax.

Because Duncan fills so many holes on a team:
- Leader this is the #1 thing Duncan did for the Spurs is provide leadership
- A go-to scorer
- GOAT level defense
- Availability, Duncan rarely got hurt
- Longevity, he's in the conversation for top players; Lebron has played 1406 games and Duncan played 1392 games and this is with two strike years and Duncan playing one less season

The only other player that I can think of that can compare to Duncan is Kareem. No one else fills as many holes on a team as Duncan.....

No and no. Thanks for not showing interest in understanding my point

Your point is to make alibi's for Lebron and you are doing it spectacularly.....

You asked rhetorical questions that were a complete misrepresentation of what I said. I just dont think we should give Curry and Duncan credit as individually players for the success of their front office.

[KyRo23]

Greater accomplishment is having 3+ LeBron threads at all times on GB 1st page.

Remember this the next time people say "no one cares about LeBron or the Lakers"