Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[wolves_89]

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Some perspective on the potential value of 1-2 wins this season.

[Klomp]

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Some perspective on the potential value of 1-2 wins this season.

It also matters which wins. A win over one of those teams carries more significance than a win over say Detroit.

[old school 34]

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Some perspective on the potential value of 1-2 wins this season.

It also matters which wins. A win over one of those teams carries more significance than a win over say Detroit.

I do think KAT's health will be somewhat of a factor with trade discussions...if he can be back after All Star break & they didn't deal until the deadline...it would mean 3 games of say no Naz as a backup or KAT to say absorb DLo's offensive usage?

In ideal world (even though it's playing with fire some)...I consider 3-way deal with Denver & Clips...Naz to Den...DLo to Clips...some filler in there & we end up with both Mann & Bones...Clips can provide maybe that extra draft capital that Den wants & Clips have useful filler salaries to make the math work on the DLo side?

Mann gives us a low usage 3-D type right away & Bones being more of a long play while giving us a bench scorer that if developed right PG starter ceiling maybe?

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[Klomp]

In ideal world (even though it's playing with fire some)...I consider 3-way deal with Denver & Clips...Naz to Den...DLo to Clips...some filler in there & we end up with both Mann & Bones...Clips can provide maybe that extra draft capital that Den wants & Clips have useful filler salaries to make the math work on the DLo side?

Mann gives us a low usage 3-D type right away & Bones being more of a long play while giving us a bench scorer that if developed right PG starter ceiling maybe?

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Ooooh I kinda like this. Would need two bigger salaries leaving LAC and coming our way likely though.

[Klomp]

It's a bit of a bodies game right now, especially as guys get healthy. Who will accept DNP-CDs if that's what it comes to? Will Naz? Will Jaylen?

[minimus]

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Naz Reid for Payton Pritchard, 2nd round pick?

[younggunsmn]

3 Teamer:

MN IN: TJ McConnell, James Johnson
MN OUT: Prince, Naz Reid,

BRK IN: Prince, Naz Reid
BRK OUT: Patty Mills, Cam Thomas

IND IN: Patty Mills, Cam Thomas,
IND IN: McConnell, James Johnson

For MIN: balances roster, add the Kyle Anderson of PG's to steady the young players, signed cheap for 2 years after this one.
Can start next year if D-Lo walks in free agency.
For BRK: Add shooting and center depth, balances roster
For IND: Swap backup PGs and take a chance on a former 1st rounder.

Trade is salary neutral for us, BRK adds 1.3 mil in salary, Ind loses 1.3 mil in salary.

I think the Wolves need more value here. McConnell is decent, but doesn't space the floor and not a great defender. Johnson is a good defender, but he's old and can't shoot. We need to really add shooting, high level defense, rebounding, and smart players. We lose 2 high level rotation pieces here for a decent backup PG.

I'd be open to moving Naz or Prince for a backup guard to help and balance the roster as we have a log jam at the 3/4/5 and Nowell has been so disappointing.

I think you are selling McConnell short, he's a career 50/33/78 shooter and 52/43/90 this year.
Not a knock down 3 point shooter (doesn't take many), but not Jmac bad either.
But his overall game is very efficient. Great A/TO ratio, lots of steals, very few fouls.
Not an on-ball dog like Beverley, but he is a good team defender who will execute whatever finch asks him to do.
I think he could be another glue guy/levelheaded player to balance out the emotion from our young guys, not just this season but for the next 3 years.

Naz was getting DNP-CDs with Rudy and KAT healthy. We have depth.
He is the prime candidate to move for a better fitting piece/future assets.
It hurts losing Prince's shooting, but when KAT gets back there are only so many minutes to spread between Jaden/SloMo and Prince, at the 3 and backup 4, with the hope Moore, Ryan, and Knight play their way into that mix too He's also the most likely salary filler for a non-minimum deal. I'd like better filler than Johnson, but he is a vet who would be a good glue guy for the rest of the year and could play some defense at the 3/4 in a pinch.

[younggunsmn]

Finally, I don’t buy into all this worry about Towns (improved) defense either. Imagine the team goes and gets a defensive point of attack guard to pair with point-Ant, let’s say Josh Hart. Hart defends the other team’s best guard. McDaniels defends the other team’s best forward. Rudy is waiting underneath, and opponents no longer barrel in, unopposed, with a head of steam. Ant could be a strong defender too. I can’t believe Towns needs to be good at defense as well, for this team to become one of the best defensive teams in the NBA.

I think the “Trade Towns” talk is completely unrealistic.

This is the point I disagree on. Teams have built their offensive gameplans against us FOR YEARS specifically around attacking Towns in pick action. We built an entirely new scheme last year (high wall) to stop that which involves Towns trapping on the perimeter and everyone else flying around. We have pretty much abandoned that since he has gotten hurt, we are playing a lot of switch 4 and drop.
Towns's long term defensive fit and role are still big question marks/hurdles which must be overcome if we are going to take the big leap into competing for conference championships. We have a much more nimble and high IQ player in Anderson filling his shoes defensively right now.
That said, I don't see a path to us becoming a truly elite team that does not involve KAT or another player with his level of offensive talent.

[younggunsmn]

We should probably discuss what we might get back in a Naz trade

One rumor we heard (probably planted by the Wolves), was that the Clippers (Terrance Mann) and Nuggets (Bones Hyland) were interested. Both seem like an overpay, that I imagine would at least require we send out the NYK 2nd. However, both players would help us now, and are locked up for two more years. It should be noted with Mann’s extension ($10.5, $11.4), this would mean that MIN could only keep DLo OR the MLE. They would go into the lux a year early if they tried to keep both. We can expect Connelly to like Bones as a Nowell replacement - he drafted him for DEN.

The Celtics are a team that could definitely use an upgrade at back up center. Payton Prichard seems like a much-discussed piece, but Naz seems more valuable than that. If the price is two second round picks, BOS has POR (41) and MIA (52) this year. However, these aren’t great, and I suspect Connelly would look for at least one pick in the future. MIN already has NYK’s 2nd (51), and it has been reported that he stashed project Josh Minott as a replacement 2023 pick. Fortunately, BOS has a very appealing 2024 Spurs 2nd, so I would base a deal on that, plus whatever between the other 2nds or Pritchard.

I like that '24 spurs pick. If I could get that and plus late 25 or 27 2nd it would be nice.
Looking up potential Naz trades, the 2nd round pick cupboards are bare for a lot of teams.
Would target picks in '24 and '25 as we are without 2nd round picks in '24,'25 and '27.
You are rolling the dice though with Kat already injured and Rudy fairly injury prone.
But the defense/defensive rebounding falls off a cliff when Naz is at the 5 too.
For some history, not having enough space under the tax to sign a backup C (Greg Monroe) cost us at least 2 games last year if not more. We don't have that kind of depth issue this year, but Injuries happen, and they seem to happen more as the season drags on.

FWIW I think Hyland is out of our price range.
And with 90+ million per year committed to KAT/Rudy each of the next 3 years, I don't think 10+ million per for a 3rd center would be money well spent.

[minimus]

1st trade: Naz Reid for Payton Pritchard, 2nd round pick

2nd trade: Nowell, Forbes, 2nd round pick for Cam Reddish

Gobert/Knight + Garza
KA/MCD/Minott + (Towns)
MCD/TP/Reddish + Ryan
Edwards/Reddish/Pritchard + Moore
DLo/Rivers/Pritchard + (JMac)

[Danimals]

Finally, I don’t buy into all this worry about Towns (improved) defense either. Imagine the team goes and gets a defensive point of attack guard to pair with point-Ant, let’s say Josh Hart. Hart defends the other team’s best guard. McDaniels defends the other team’s best forward. Rudy is waiting underneath, and opponents no longer barrel in, unopposed, with a head of steam. Ant could be a strong defender too. I can’t believe Towns needs to be good at defense as well, for this team to become one of the best defensive teams in the NBA.

I think the “Trade Towns” talk is completely unrealistic.

This is the point I disagree on. Teams have built their offensive gameplans against us FOR YEARS specifically around attacking Towns in pick action. We built an entirely new scheme last year (high wall) to stop that which involves Towns trapping on the perimeter and everyone else flying around. We have pretty much abandoned that since he has gotten hurt, we are playing a lot of switch 4 and drop.
Towns's long term defensive fit and role are still big question marks/hurdles which must be overcome if we are going to take the big leap into competing for conference championships. We have a much more nimble and high IQ player in Anderson filling his shoes defensively right now.
That said, I don't see a path to us becoming a truly elite team that does not involve KAT or another player with his level of offensive talent.

I think teams were attacking our pick and roll defense, and that means attacking the guards as much as it was attacking Kat. He has graded out as an average to slightly above average defender over his career. Unfortunately almost every perimeter player he’s played with has been trash on defense. He’s shown he can function in team concepts when he is playing with other good defenders. He cannot improve a trash defense on his own. He doesn’t have the patience or instincts to hold together a collapsing defense on his own. He gets caught chasing blocks, rotating late, and stuck in no man’s land. And he’s been killed for this over his career. He rebounds at a high rate, has the ability to block shots, can walk up on the perimeter, and is athletic enough to actually defend some in space. I think he can play to his strengths between Ant and Macs defense on the wing and Rudy behind him. I do think it will be an issue with Dlo on the floor. But add a bulldog at the pint of attack and we could have a top 5 defense.

[shrink]

Multiple teams have inquired on Timberwolves center Naz Reid, but evidently Minnesota didn’t like the offers. Moore hears the Wolves are going to hang onto the 23-year-old and will try to sign him to a contract extension.

Posturing to get teams to up their offers?

Trying to sign him to a tradeable number?

We have no future for him next year if he’s getting 8 MPG’s with KAT and Gobert in front of him.

[BleedGreen1989]

Multiple teams have inquired on Timberwolves center Naz Reid, but evidently Minnesota didn’t like the offers. Moore hears the Wolves are going to hang onto the 23-year-old and will try to sign him to a contract extension.

Posturing to get teams to up their offers?

Trying to sign him to a tradeable number?

We have no future for him next year if he’s getting 8 MPG’s with KAT and Gobert in front of him.

Has to be posturing I imagine.

[NebWolvesFan]

Multiple teams have inquired on Timberwolves center Naz Reid, but evidently Minnesota didn’t like the offers. Moore hears the Wolves are going to hang onto the 23-year-old and will try to sign him to a contract extension.

Posturing to get teams to up their offers?

Trying to sign him to a tradeable number?

We have no future for him next year if he’s getting 8 MPG’s with KAT and Gobert in front of him.

Has to be posturing I imagine.

Plus with KAT out they need Reid as long as possible. No hurry

[Klomp]

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[shrink]

Thanks Klomp. I hate Downer Dan, but I’m so interested in hearing what Connelly has to say.

[shrink]

Posturing to get teams to up their offers?

Trying to sign him to a tradeable number?

We have no future for him next year if he’s getting 8 MPG’s with KAT and Gobert in front of him.

Has to be posturing I imagine.

Plus with KAT out they need Reid as long as possible. No hurry

I think Naz will be traded, but you’re right - they need him as long as possible, so a trade won’t happen until the deadline.

[shrink]

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This week.

[Klomp]

Left-field idea: Thoughts about trading Prince and Naz for a player in the MLE range? I know we value Prince, but there's a roster crunch and he's in a strange salary range at just over $7 million.

[shrink]

Left-field idea: Thoughts about trading Prince and Naz for a player in the MLE range? I know we value Prince, but there's a roster crunch and he's in a strange salary range at just over $7 million.

I think that’s option #2. Option #1 would be to get that salary matching piece by breaking up DLo in trade.

I think Prince and his leadership makes him a more valuable piece to us than to other teams, which makes it hard to build a successful trade. However, several of the vet guys that Connelly probably wants to get back for Naz’ value are probably near MLE guys, who we can’t match with his tiny salary.

My hope is that Connelly finds a deal where we trade $30 mil DLo for a $20 and a $10. One of them is particularly useful to us, and the other one we attach Naz to, and trade for another useful player.