Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[Badonkadonk]

It's not my take, it's theirs. That's what makes this so perplexing.

Ah my bad

Like, it's Scotty's team. They've already "anointed" him. That's why him taking the back seat this season makes no sense.

Oh you meant "theirs" as in the team's.

In PD, force feeding a person before he's ready is as bad (sometimes worse) than not giving the opportunity in the first place. Scottie has been given plenty of opportunity to fail (i.e. learn) this season, and I think he's doing well with it.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Ah my bad

Like, it's Scotty's team. They've already "anointed" him. That's why him taking the back seat this season makes no sense.

Oh you meant "theirs" as in the team's.

In PD, force feeding a person before he's ready is as bad (sometimes worse) than not giving the opportunity in the first place. Scottie has been given plenty of opportunity to fail (i.e. learn) this season, and I think he's doing well with it.

Specifically, Masai and Bobby or any of the "decision makers".

So, if that's their decision how'd Barnes end up with such a discrepancy this year. You could justify him being third this year, quite easily. At least in terms of shots per game. He should easily have 15 shots per game.

[YogurtProducer]

You're talking about a bunch of players who have pretty similar poor TS% as a whole, and the whole "worst TS% of the bunch" does not matter considering even our veterans are around that same mark. We can't pick and choose when we want to use TS% in an argument. We either want to use it or we don't and this board loves using it. So here it is. The entire team is basically below league average. What they're doing now does not work.

Not, we dont have a bunch of players who have a pretty similar poor TS%.

Trent - 57.6%
Siakam - 56.5%
OG - 56.2%
FVV - 54.1%
Scottie - 53.5%

Scottie takes less shots than any of them, shoots closer to the basket than any of them, takes less tough bail out shots than any of them, and has the worst TS% out of all of them. Barnes is 166/193 qualifying players in TS. He is just not an efficient player in any fashion right now (cumulatively this year, January is obviously a different story).

We have a starter who had one bad month (November), is 21, has been coming on strong, and is clearly figuring out how to attack different defense as the season goes on. He's playing on a team that does not have a clear-cut go to option and the one who should be the go-to option based on conventional thinking (GTJ) isn't really given that opportunity and continues to be in trade rumours. The Raptors are also banking on Barnes developing into a great offensive and defensive player. This is the season to try Barnes as a more featured option in the offense when the team is clearly going nowhere.

I get where you are coming from, but I think the guy who is about to be named an all-star and is averaging 26/8/6 is a pretty clear cut go-to option.

My question is, Barnes is easily not a clear-cut go to option, so why does he deserve the touches over say GTJ, or Siakam? How do you think they will react to a lesser talented offensive player getting more touches at the expense of theirs? Or should we alienate the rest of our team to improve Barnes personal statistical achievements?

I think we all know that Scottie's time is coming. But the point is that time is now. What is it that we're trying to accomplish by continuing to play FVV/Siakam ball? We saw it fail in the playoffs and we have seen how the players outside of those two play out of rhythm whenever we play that style. This team needs to look forward to next year at this stage and it starts with how they run their offense. What exactly are we waiting for?

When did we see it fail in the playoffs? Last year where Scottie got injured in game 1 and while FVV was injured? How can you possibly say we have seen something fail when we have only seen them play 26 minutes together as a unit?

I think we can all agree that no one on the team makes the others on the team better than Barnes and Siakam. Siakam has taken on more of a scorer mentality and Barnes is clearly fine with being a guy who gets his teammates involved, and he's great at it. So, why would you not run the offense through him and give him a higher usage? It's in the best interest of everyone to put the ball in Barnes' hands to actually make decisions, whether to shoot or pass than anyone else on the team right now.

Again, asking Barnes to shoot more is a recipe for disaster, and it is impossible to be the main creator with limited scoring ability. Teams just drop under every screen, you don't force any doubles, etc.

Other thing is that Scottie is already getting a LOT of touches on this team. Look at the touches per game.

Siakam 84.3/game
FVV -83.9/game
Barnes 74.1/game
OG 49.1/game
GTJ 39.9/game

So he arguably is already our 3rd option, and might even be higher considering Siakam/FVV get a lot of touches just dribbling the ball up and passing it off. If Barnes had a reliable 3 point shot he already would be taking the 2nd or 3rd most shots on the team, he just isn't because he does not have the skill to take a shot and he has to pass.

[isyed]

Curious if we have a comparison for Scotties strength profile at age 21? I know Zion is probably yhr only freak who might outstrength him at age 21.

Cant think of many hybrid fwd with that kind of brute strength at that age. I know it's not super functional right now and maybe someone like Melo might have been super strong for his age back in the day but trying to find other non lebron players who are as strong as Scottie.

That's the one think where I'm super hopeful for his future. He still seems uncoordinated when it comes to his strength. I feel like when he figures that part out he can reach that Giannis like game ie just bully people out of the way. Ofcourse not as good since he isn't a 6'11" monster but he has that same nastiness when he puts his mind to it.



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[Badonkadonk]

Like, it's Scotty's team. They've already "anointed" him. That's why him taking the back seat this season makes no sense.

Oh you meant "theirs" as in the team's.

In PD, force feeding a person before he's ready is as bad (sometimes worse) than not giving the opportunity in the first place. Scottie has been given plenty of opportunity to fail (i.e. learn) this season, and I think he's doing well with it.

Specifically, Masai and Bobby or any of the "decision makers".

So, if that's their decision how'd Barnes end up with such a discrepancy this year. You could justify him being third this year, quite easily. At least in terms of shots per game. He should easily have 15 shots per game.

What discrepancy? Shot frequency is a near-meaningless statistic. Nick practically begged him to be more assertive taking his man into the lane whenever the opportunity presents. When they experimented with him as PG, you would naturally expect his shot frequency to be lower. With his more recent role as a connector outside the post, you would also expect his frequency to be lower. He clearly has the green light from 3.

I see no discrepancy in terms of his development. They've used him outside of the areas that he's actually good at, which is what you want to see.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Oh you meant "theirs" as in the team's.

In PD, force feeding a person before he's ready is as bad (sometimes worse) than not giving the opportunity in the first place. Scottie has been given plenty of opportunity to fail (i.e. learn) this season, and I think he's doing well with it.

Specifically, Masai and Bobby or any of the "decision makers".

So, if that's their decision how'd Barnes end up with such a discrepancy this year. You could justify him being third this year, quite easily. At least in terms of shots per game. He should easily have 15 shots per game.

What discrepancy? Shot frequency is a near-meaningless statistic. Nick practically begged him to be more assertive taking his man into the lane whenever the opportunity presents. When they experimented with him as PG, you would naturally expect his shot frequency to be lower. With his more recent role as a connector outside the post, you would also expect his frequency to be lower. He clearly has the green light from 3.

I see no discrepancy in terms of his development. They've used him outside of the areas that he's actually good at, which is what you want to see.

Lamelo Ball, year two was like 17 shots per. Most ROTY winners are going to be in that 20+ range, so 15+ is very conservative.

[OakleyDokely]

Last 15 games, team ranking:

Frontcourt touches:
1. Siakam: 42.5
2. Barnes: 39.9

Elbow touches:
1. Siakam: 3.5
2. Barnes: 1.6

Postups:
1. Siakam: 3.1
2. Barnes: 2.2

Paint touches:
1. Barnes: 6.7
2. Precious: 4.6
(3. Siakam: 3.8)

[Badonkadonk]

Specifically, Masai and Bobby or any of the "decision makers".

So, if that's their decision how'd Barnes end up with such a discrepancy this year. You could justify him being third this year, quite easily. At least in terms of shots per game. He should easily have 15 shots per game.

What discrepancy? Shot frequency is a near-meaningless statistic. Nick practically begged him to be more assertive taking his man into the lane whenever the opportunity presents. When they experimented with him as PG, you would naturally expect his shot frequency to be lower. With his more recent role as a connector outside the post, you would also expect his frequency to be lower. He clearly has the green light from 3.

I see no discrepancy in terms of his development. They've used him outside of the areas that he's actually good at, which is what you want to see.

Lamelo Ball, year two was like 17 shots per. Most ROTY winners are going to be in that 20+ range, so 15+ is very conservative.

Lamelo wasn't running point as a 6th man prior to turning professional and has a completely different skillset. Jalen Green's role is literally to jack up shots. Josh Giddey's role is somewhat closer to Scottie's and he's at similar usage. Everybody starts at a different point, with a different skillset and under different circumstances. It's just such an arbitrary thing to focus on.

The dream outcome - Kawhi - started at 6 shots per game and didn't clear 15 until his 5th season.

[OakleyDokely]

It's kind of interesting that Giddey and Barnes have literally the exact same efficiency (536 TS%) this year, yet the perception of both players sophomore years are so different.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

What discrepancy? Shot frequency is a near-meaningless statistic. Nick practically begged him to be more assertive taking his man into the lane whenever the opportunity presents. When they experimented with him as PG, you would naturally expect his shot frequency to be lower. With his more recent role as a connector outside the post, you would also expect his frequency to be lower. He clearly has the green light from 3.

I see no discrepancy in terms of his development. They've used him outside of the areas that he's actually good at, which is what you want to see.

Lamelo Ball, year two was like 17 shots per. Most ROTY winners are going to be in that 20+ range, so 15+ is very conservative.

Lamelo wasn't running point as a 6th man prior to turning professional and has a completely different skillset. Jalen Green's role is literally to jack up shots. Josh Giddey's role is somewhat closer to Scottie's and he's at similar usage. Everybody starts at a different point, with a different skillset and under different circumstances. It's just such an arbitrary thing to focus on.

The dream outcome - Kawhi - started at 6 shots per game and didn't clear 15 until his 5th season.

The thing is, if you gave him what he should be at...so 15+ shots per game. we'd be talking about him at 19-20ppg. He's ready.

He just has to convert at his current shooting percentages, totally doable.

[Madhouse]

It's kind of interesting that Giddey and Barnes have literally the exact same efficiency (536 TS%) this year, yet the perception of both players sophomore years are so different.

Less is expected out of him, so more praise.

But Giddey is terrible defensively, so he will have trouble being a positive impact player.

[HumbleRen]

It's kind of interesting that Giddey and Barnes have literally the exact same efficiency (536 TS%) this year, yet the perception of both players sophomore years are so different.

Less is expected out of him, so more praise.

But Giddey is terrible defensively, so he will have trouble being a positive impact player.

Feel like this is a misconception lol. He's not terrible, he's probably measures out to be average.

OKC has been a top 10 defence this year as well.

[Madhouse]

It's kind of interesting that Giddey and Barnes have literally the exact same efficiency (536 TS%) this year, yet the perception of both players sophomore years are so different.

Less is expected out of him, so more praise.

But Giddey is terrible defensively, so he will have trouble being a positive impact player.

Feel like this is a misconception lol. He's not terrible, he's probably measures out to be average.

OKC has been a top 10 defence this year as well.

It's the reality. Most of his defensive advanced metrics are very bad and he is a -10 on/off, so very negative impact player.

[HumbleRen]

Less is expected out of him, so more praise.

But Giddey is terrible defensively, so he will have trouble being a positive impact player.

Feel like this is a misconception lol. He's not terrible, he's probably measures out to be average.

OKC has been a top 10 defence this year as well.

It's the reality. Most of his defensive advanced metrics are very bad and he is a -10 on/off, so very negative impact player.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[HumbleRen]

Made alot of mistakes tonight, hopefully he looks back on the film and sees what he did wrong.

The defensive pressure on him will only continue to build as he becomes a better player.

[HiJiNX]

Made alot of mistakes tonight, hopefully he looks back on the film and sees what he did wrong.

The defensive pressure on him will only continue to build as he becomes a better player.

Yup. Sloppy offensive game from him tonight. Ball protection wasn’t there. Wasn’t decisive enough. Played better without the ball than with it.

His defence, however, was stellar.

[HumbleRen]

Made alot of mistakes tonight, hopefully he looks back on the film and sees what he did wrong.

The defensive pressure on him will only continue to build as he becomes a better player.

Yup. Sloppy offensive game from him tonight. Ball protection wasn’t there. Wasn’t decisive enough. Played better without the ball than with it.

His defence, however, was stellar.

Cleaned it up in the 2nd half though.

Scottie Barnes in the 1st half: 6 PTS, 2 REB, 0 AST, 3 TO

Scottie Barnes in the 2nd half: 10 PTS, 5 REB, 5 AST, 1 TO

Good to see.

[ForeverTFC]

It's kind of interesting that Giddey and Barnes have literally the exact same efficiency (536 TS%) this year, yet the perception of both players sophomore years are so different.

Giddey's hitting the 3 at .330 this season vs .260 last season while Scottie has stayed at .300. Similarly, Giddey has upped his 2p% to .526 from .492 while Scottie has regressed to .512 from .543.

Giddey's improved on while Scottie has regressed. It's easy to see why the perception is different when their numbers look pretty similar.

[Vampirate]

It's kind of interesting that Giddey and Barnes have literally the exact same efficiency (536 TS%) this year, yet the perception of both players sophomore years are so different.

Giddey's hitting the 3 at .330 this season vs .260 last season while Scottie has stayed at .300. Similarly, Giddey has upped his 2p% to .526 from .492 while Scottie has regressed to .512 from .543. Similarly, Giddey's AST, BLKS and RBDS are up/stable while Barnes is down on all metrics.

Giddey's improved on pretty much all raw stats while Scottie has regressed. It's easy to see why the perception is different when their numbers look pretty similar.

Barns is actually up quite a bit on assists and his turn overs has barely budged. So it's false to say Barnes has regressed on all raw stats.

In all honesty his stats are still recovering from that horrible November. People forget his FG% was near 40% at one point, now it's getting closer to his FG% from last year.

His FTr has also taken a leap overall as well has his FT%.

I took a look, he's averaging more blocks than last year and his steals are slightly behind.

Basically everyone is only looking at his scoring and that's about it.