2023 Trade Deadline Thread: Conley/VanVleet/Lowry/etc. (Updated thread)

[esqtvd]

Damn your plus/minus I still think we look better with Mann on the floor for 30+ MPG

Mann does provide juice for us (juicy glue?) but doesn't score consistently, and in the end reasonably efficient scoring is still the biggest thing a player can contribute. At point guard Mann is still playing out of position, but it's the best position to give him 30 MPG which I still think is a net positive all things considered (keep Reggie fresh, add some muscle and hustle, keep Wall off the floor, etc.)

OTOH, if there was a hypothetical scenario where we had the expiring contracts to get Conley for cheap AND traded Mann in a package to land John Collins, that would be the clearer win IMO.

Agree. I'm not against the move either but I think a lot of people are seeing something that's not there lol. For both Mann AND Reggie.

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Leonard-George-Mann per 100 plays: plus+5.3
Leonard-George-Jackson per 100 plays: plus+11.9

Mann is probably most effective playing with KL and PG and can give us 25-30 decent minutes that we desperately need. At the moment he's taking the harder defensive assignments to lighten their load. He is also NOT a point guard and can't play the position on the second unit. Reggie can--and is thriving--and 20 mpg instead of 30 is right where he should be too. Win-win.

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Mann, last 6 games: 25 mpg 7 ppg @ 43%/33% shooting—minus-1.3
Reggie last 6 games: 20 mpg 14 ppg @ 52%/44% shooting—plus+5.8

[Mann would be closer to even without the Cavs blowout. Still, he is not killin' it as a starter. Zubac, Batum and Powell also played in that game and they're all still in the plus.]


And BTW, Marcus was terrible on the second unit too, if you remember last year. Starting is where he is of best use for the team. He gives us decent minutes that we sorely need--Batum is maxxed out at 20-24 minutes but plays equally well starting or relieving. So Marcus starts.

But yeah, we could use upgrades at the 1 and 4. The FO is still shopping.

[madmaxmedia]

I agree with everything you say, especially the point about Mann not being a good point guard for the second unit. The reason he can fill in credibly starting is because we have PG and Kawhi. He is a great team player, and on the first unit great playmaking skills don’t matter- as much.

It points to a greater problem that Marcus doesn’t play well with the 2nd unit, because that’s where we’d need his offensive skills more.

I think some combination of 2 significant trades would probably improve our team the most. But if we don’t make any major changes by ASB besides getting Hart or another backup center, I’ll still love watching the guys we have even if we might top out 2nd round or conference title round. I’ll just be hoping our guys are healthy and fresh so we can be at our best.

[PeteyPablo]

I read a trade today of :

DAngelo Russell and filler for Marcus Morris and Luke Lennard …

Salaries match .

What do you think ?

[nickhx2]

makes us demonstrably worse, puke

[Roscoe Sheed]

I read a trade today of :

DAngelo Russell and filler for Marcus Morris and Luke Lennard …

Salaries match .

What do you think ?

I want to keep Kennard unless a great trade comes along and Russell isn't that.

He is a good player, but not the point guard the Clippers need. They need more of a facilitator whereas Russell is more of shoot first point guard.

Kennard might be the best spot up 3 point shooter in the league. He spreads the floor so well- teams know they can't leave him- it is the closest to an automatic bucket from 3 that there is in the NBA

[KL2]

Read on Twitter

[nickhx2]

FVV might be a dream, boy would i be excited

the cost i hope isn't too much though

[esqtvd]

Read on Twitter

the blind leading the stupid leading the clueless

nobody knows what the Clippers are thinking and nobody even knows what we need besides a better point guard, a better power forward and a better center


oh, and fire the coach while we're at it

[nickhx2]

you know, looking at the standings, and as i think on it

i don't see how this team doesn't go after a legit vet PG and/or big. everyone's so freaking close and GS/suns are showing some signs of life, and zion will return eventually.

i'm gonna say that the FO doesn't feel comfortable at all where we're at, in spite of our improved play. trade deadline should be exciting!

[esqtvd]

you know, looking at the standings, and as i think on it

i don't see how this team doesn't go after a legit vet PG and/or big. everyone's so freaking close and GS/suns are showing some signs of life, and zion will return eventually.

i'm gonna say that the FO doesn't feel comfortable at all where we're at, in spite of our improved play. trade deadline should be exciting!

But it's also a wide-open year with no dominant team in either conference. One all-in go-for-broke trade could steal the whole thing.

You know who's shhtng bricks? Steve Ballmer. Go for it now and even if you win it all, you open up your $2 billion Intuit Dome in 2024 with a brokeback Kawhi and PG and all your draft picks traded away for the next 5 years?

[ejftw]

Am I one of the few that would prefer Conley to FVV? I'm just not high on Van Vleet like most are, and Conley would cost vastly less, plus, we could use him as expiring ballast this summer with the rights to our 23 pick, out 28 and 30 picks along with our 29 swap

[shrink]

I read a trade today of :

DAngelo Russell and filler for Marcus Morris and Luke Lennard …

Salaries match .

What do you think ?

As a MIN fan and DLo hater, I have wondered about Russell’s fit with the Clippers.

Friday’s game against the Kings was a demonstration of who DLo is. In the first half, he was 8-for-8, with seven three pointers. None of these shots even touched the rim. In the second half, he was 0-for-6, with clutch turnovers. On our board, we call it “Good DLo” and “Bad DLo.” Good DLo can win you games against anyone - and bad DLo can cost you games against anyone. I will (begrudgingly) say thought that since December 1st, when Finch put the ball in Ant’s hands, DLo is shooting nearly 50/40/90. He can pass and shoot, but he sometimes struggles knowing when to do which.

This makes me think about the Clippers. DLo can run an offense sometimes, but he may also be valuable when Kawhi or PG have the ball in their hands. The Clippers also have a lot of talent on their bench, so they wouldn’t be forced to give him a lot of minutes when Bad DLo arrives.

I don’t know how I feel about it. I think MIN would require some more incentive than Morris and Kennard (who I like), because at his worst, DLo is still an expiring. I feel like he’s about an $18-$20 mil player on his next contract, which wouldn’t be as painful for Ballmer to re-sign (if he actually perceives financial pain), if he sent out a two year deal or two. He’s certainly younger and healthier than Conley or Lowry. He still sucks defensively so that could be a deal killer.

A bigger deal could be DLo and Naz Reid, which could help LAC’s to biggest holes. I’m sure Tim Connelly likes Terrance Mann - I think he drafted him.

[shrink]

Am I one of the few that would prefer Conley to FVV? I'm just not high on Van Vleet like most are, and Conley would cost vastly less, plus, we could use him as expiring ballast this summer with the rights to our 23 pick, out 28 and 30 picks along with our 29 swap

I’m with you. I think whoever signs FVV is in trouble - he feels like an impending “Ten Worst Contracts” type guy.

I used to like the guy, but I saw numbers that since the All Star break last year, he has the worst FG% of any NBA player .. and worse, he just keeps shooting, which costs TOR games. People have to stop calling it a “slump” after this many shots - something may be wrong with his back. He reportedly blames his teammates for the Raptor’s poor performance, that they aren’t giving him the ball right. He also wants a payday, which is why he tweeted he’s “Bet on himself” when he was insulted by TOR’s extension offers. Check out the TOR board to see what local fans think of the guy. I think he’s a very dangerous guy to give an expensive contract to. Even if Conley falls off the age cliff, he’s just one more year of salary.

[nickhx2]

good perspectives on fvv and Russell. didn't realize that about the former. fwiw your description of the latter sounds pretty much like Reggie Jackson and we certainly don't need two of him

[madmaxmedia]

you know, looking at the standings, and as i think on it

i don't see how this team doesn't go after a legit vet PG and/or big. everyone's so freaking close and GS/suns are showing some signs of life, and zion will return eventually.

i'm gonna say that the FO doesn't feel comfortable at all where we're at, in spite of our improved play. trade deadline should be exciting!

But it's also a wide-open year with no dominant team in either conference. One all-in go-for-broke trade could steal the whole thing.

You know who's shhtng bricks? Steve Ballmer. Go for it now and even if you win it all, you open up your $2 billion Intuit Dome in 2024 with a brokeback Kawhi and PG and all your draft picks traded away for the next 5 years?

I think in this case fortune favors the brave (which is different than desperate. )

If there are trades to be made that significantly improve our team this year and next, it's worth doing even if it costs us future picks. We win a title and it secures our place as a top org, with Ballmer and a new arena to go along with a trophy. I think we can then attract free agents after this core is done (when our tradable firsts would convey.) The goal is to render our future 1sts as low value as possible anyway.

[Bobbymcgee]

What about John Collins? How about MMSr + Ibaka trade exception for Collins + filler if needed (to make salaries match). That would be a nice upgrade at PF without giving up much in return.

[ejftw]

What about John Collins? How about MMSr + Ibaka trade exception for Collins + filler if needed (to make salaries match). That would be a nice upgrade at PF without giving up much in return.

Can't combine TPEs with players, but Morris + Wall gets the numbers to work, it'd be a big risk.

[madmaxmedia]

What about John Collins? How about MMSr + Ibaka trade exception for Collins + filler if needed (to make salaries match). That would be a nice upgrade at PF without giving up much in return.

Can't combine TPEs with players, but Morris + Wall gets the numbers to work, it'd be a big risk.

If literally that’s all it took for Collins, it would be a no-brainer IMO.

[Roscoe Sheed]

What about John Collins? How about MMSr + Ibaka trade exception for Collins + filler if needed (to make salaries match). That would be a nice upgrade at PF without giving up much in return.

Can't combine TPEs with players, but Morris + Wall gets the numbers to work, it'd be a big risk.

If literally that’s all it took for Collins, it would be a no-brainer IMO.

I would certainly do that trade too. However, I'm concerned that his 3 point shot seems to have abandoned him

[playaloc916]

I'm not loving any of these rumours so far. FVV is a good player, I just don't see a major need for such a costly point guard when both PG and Kawhi are going to be handling the ball a lot. Unless it's a top tier floor general type player like CP3 or Luka, I don't think the point guard is going to move the needle much. The "chemistry" with Kawhi is also overblown IMO. If a point guard is a must, I'd go with Conley.

The more I think about it, the more I'm okay with losing Kennard. I know he's one of the most talented 3 pt shooters in the league, but unless he's wide open, he can get shut down too easily. Might be a good idea to sell high and nab a solid 4/5. Morris being moved, to me is addition by subtraction. Team scoring will take a hit, but I'd much rather have a better big (starter or backup) who can focus on defense, rebounding, etc.

Depending on if the team can get a big man, I'm okay keeping Mann as the starting "point guard". He's not a point guard, but we need the energy he brings. Other teams all have youth and energy, but Clips don't have any consistently serviceable young players except for Mann.