2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[TeamTragic]

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Interesting

[bwoolf2]

Kenyon Martin Jr and Vanderbilt are making us the title favorites now? OK

OG is minus Cam, lol... I'll take Beasley Martin, and Vanderbilt plus Cam over OG any day of the week and twice on Sunday and it would cost less assets.

And that answer is yes, yes it would.

It's funny you act like OG is an all nba player he hasn't even made an all star game and again he is not a PF, never has been.

Let me ask a question. What is it that Cam Johnson does better than OG? I'll give you 3 pointers but I'll remind you that career Cam is .390 Which is very good. Now, you ask what is OG's career shooting?



.371

with MUCH better defense, being younger and being better all other counting stats. So again: what does Cam do better?


I'll wait.

This isn't a Cam or Og argument it wouldn't be a straight trade it would require multiple 1st.

I would rather have Cam and trade those 1st for other pieces, Cam plus those picks is greater than OG and no assets.

Plus I value shooting over D, OG might be a little better overall but it's close he isnt head and shouldersbetter, plus he hasn't played PF almost no minutes at the position, he isn't a big dude he is undersized even more so than Cam.

It's a lateral move I'd that the team isn't better without Cam and those assets.

[Qwigglez]

If Suns allow Grizzlies to outbid them for Anunoby I will be disappointed. I don't see any player besides Bane who the Raptors would be interested in, but the Grizzlies won't give him up. Not that the Raptors want anyone on the Suns except Cam Johnson, but I don't think Suns are interested in traded Cam for Anunoby. The reason I feel Raptors would accept a deal from the Suns is because the Suns are giving up Crowder to the Bucks and in exchange the Raptors get Nwora, plus a few 2nd round picks. Suns also give up more volatile picks than the Grizzlies since the Suns future is more uncertain with CP3 being closer to 40 years old.

https://hoopswire.com/grizzlies-to-make-run-at-raptors-og-anunoby/


Also I want to mention I don't feel Suns necessarily need to be the deepest team in the league with trades. As we all know, come playoff time, the rotation gets shorter and the starters play more minutes. Sure, the depth is nice in case of injuries, but the Suns won't count on the end of the bench rotation. Most likely, if the Suns traded for Anunoby, come playoff time we are riding 8 man deep every game with a few players missing a handful of games here and there. We'd run CP3, Booker, Bridges, Cam Jo, Anunoby, Ayton, Lee, Payne. I could see Smack playing some minutes but not every game, I could see Shamet maybe getting some time too, Craig getting playing time. but I wouldn't expect to see Jock, Ish, Okogie most games.

[BobbieL]

OG is minus Cam, lol... I'll take Beasley Martin, and Vanderbilt plus Cam over OG any day of the week and twice on Sunday and it would cost less assets.

And that answer is yes, yes it would.

It's funny you act like OG is an all nba player he hasn't even made an all star game and again he is not a PF, never has been.

Let me ask a question. What is it that Cam Johnson does better than OG? I'll give you 3 pointers but I'll remind you that career Cam is .390 Which is very good. Now, you ask what is OG's career shooting?



.371

with MUCH better defense, being younger and being better all other counting stats. So again: what does Cam do better?


I'll wait.

This isn't a Cam or Og argument it wouldn't be a straight trade it would require multiple 1st.

I would rather have Cam and trade those 1st for other pieces, Cam plus those picks is greater than OG and no assets.

Plus I value shooting over D, OG might be a little better overall but it's close he isnt head and shouldersbetter, plus he hasn't played PF almost no minutes at the position, he isn't a big dude he is undersized even more so than Cam.

It's a lateral move I'd that the team isn't better without Cam and those assets.

Agreed. Take one of those FRPs that can probably have more protections, add in the “posdible” seconds from the Bucks and see what you can do with Crowder Saric Payne and Shamet

[BobbieL]

If Suns allow Grizzlies to outbid them for Anunoby I will be disappointed. I don't see any player besides Bane who the Raptors would be interested in, but the Grizzlies won't give him up. Not that the Raptors want anyone on the Suns except Cam Johnson, but I don't think Suns are interested in traded Cam for Anunoby. The reason I feel Raptors would accept a deal from the Suns is because the Suns are giving up Crowder to the Bucks and in exchange the Raptors get Nwora, plus a few 2nd round picks. Suns also give up more volatile picks than the Grizzlies since the Suns future is more uncertain with CP3 being closer to 40 years old.

https://hoopswire.com/grizzlies-to-make-run-at-raptors-og-anunoby/


Also I want to mention I don't feel Suns necessarily need to be the deepest team in the league with trades. As we all know, come playoff time, the rotation gets shorter and the starters play more minutes. Sure, the depth is nice in case of injuries, but the Suns won't count on the end of the bench rotation. Most likely, if the Suns traded for Anunoby, come playoff time we are riding 8 man deep every game with a few players missing a handful of games here and there. We'd run CP3, Booker, Bridges, Cam Jo, Anunoby, Ayton, Lee, Payne. I could see Smack playing some minutes but not every game, I could see Shamet maybe getting some time too, Craig getting playing time. but I wouldn't expect to see Jock, Ish, Okogie most games.

That’s a no brainer to send Crowder to the bucks for Nwora and say Connaughton, plus a couple seconds and flip Nwora Shamet (one year) and Payne plus even one FRP for Anunoby. Suns add OG and Connaughton But Two FRP and Cam- too much.

[TeamTragic]

If Suns allow Grizzlies to outbid them for Anunoby I will be disappointed. I don't see any player besides Bane who the Raptors would be interested in, but the Grizzlies won't give him up. Not that the Raptors want anyone on the Suns except Cam Johnson, but I don't think Suns are interested in traded Cam for Anunoby. The reason I feel Raptors would accept a deal from the Suns is because the Suns are giving up Crowder to the Bucks and in exchange the Raptors get Nwora, plus a few 2nd round picks. Suns also give up more volatile picks than the Grizzlies since the Suns future is more uncertain with CP3 being closer to 40 years old.

https://hoopswire.com/grizzlies-to-make-run-at-raptors-og-anunoby/


Also I want to mention I don't feel Suns necessarily need to be the deepest team in the league with trades. As we all know, come playoff time, the rotation gets shorter and the starters play more minutes. Sure, the depth is nice in case of injuries, but the Suns won't count on the end of the bench rotation. Most likely, if the Suns traded for Anunoby, come playoff time we are riding 8 man deep every game with a few players missing a handful of games here and there. We'd run CP3, Booker, Bridges, Cam Jo, Anunoby, Ayton, Lee, Payne. I could see Smack playing some minutes but not every game, I could see Shamet maybe getting some time too, Craig getting playing time. but I wouldn't expect to see Jock, Ish, Okogie most games.

That’s a no brainer to send Crowder to the bucks for Nwora and say Connaughton, plus a couple seconds and flip Nwora Shamet (one year) and Payne plus even one FRP for Anunoby. Suns add OG and Connaughton But Two FRP and Cam- too much.

FRP (protected) + filler for OG should give the Dinos flippable assets and expirings.

How much do we need to pay OG though?

[Qwigglez]

Let me ask a question. What is it that Cam Johnson does better than OG? I'll give you 3 pointers but I'll remind you that career Cam is .390 Which is very good. Now, you ask what is OG's career shooting?



.371

with MUCH better defense, being younger and being better all other counting stats. So again: what does Cam do better?


I'll wait.

This doesn't have to be a OG vs Cam thing at all. First off, I don't believe the Raptors are interested in Cam. I think they want picks, and want to reassess their team after this season to build around Barnes.

But for what it's worth, I think Cam is a far better option for spreading the floor and that adds tremendous value to Booker and CP3 come playoff time. Sure OG is shooting 37% from 3, but he is closer to the 3P line than Cam Johnson is.

Cam Johnson is shooting 47.6% from 3s in the 20-24 ft range, and 41.3% from 3s in the 25-29 ft range.
OG Anunoby is shooting 41.4% from 3s in the 20-24 ft range, and 31.1% from 3s in the 25-29 ft range.

Suns should be looking to trade picks to avoid at all cost trading Cam Johnson. Sure one of these two will be getting upset when they are coming off the bench once Booker is back, but that is something they'll have to work out amongst the team.

[BobbieL]

If Suns allow Grizzlies to outbid them for Anunoby I will be disappointed. I don't see any player besides Bane who the Raptors would be interested in, but the Grizzlies won't give him up. Not that the Raptors want anyone on the Suns except Cam Johnson, but I don't think Suns are interested in traded Cam for Anunoby. The reason I feel Raptors would accept a deal from the Suns is because the Suns are giving up Crowder to the Bucks and in exchange the Raptors get Nwora, plus a few 2nd round picks. Suns also give up more volatile picks than the Grizzlies since the Suns future is more uncertain with CP3 being closer to 40 years old.

https://hoopswire.com/grizzlies-to-make-run-at-raptors-og-anunoby/


Also I want to mention I don't feel Suns necessarily need to be the deepest team in the league with trades. As we all know, come playoff time, the rotation gets shorter and the starters play more minutes. Sure, the depth is nice in case of injuries, but the Suns won't count on the end of the bench rotation. Most likely, if the Suns traded for Anunoby, come playoff time we are riding 8 man deep every game with a few players missing a handful of games here and there. We'd run CP3, Booker, Bridges, Cam Jo, Anunoby, Ayton, Lee, Payne. I could see Smack playing some minutes but not every game, I could see Shamet maybe getting some time too, Craig getting playing time. but I wouldn't expect to see Jock, Ish, Okogie most games.

That’s a no brainer to send Crowder to the bucks for Nwora and say Connaughton, plus a couple seconds and flip Nwora Shamet (one year) and Payne plus even one FRP for Anunoby. Suns add OG and Connaughton But Two FRP and Cam- too much.

FRP (protected) + filler for OG should give the Dinos flippable assets and expirings.

How much do we need to pay OG though?

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

[lilfishi22]

Kenyon Martin Jr and Vanderbilt are making us the title favorites now? OK

OG is minus Cam, lol... I'll take Beasley Martin, and Vanderbilt plus Cam over OG any day of the week and twice on Sunday and it would cost less assets.

And that answer is yes, yes it would.

It's funny you act like OG is an all nba player he hasn't even made an all star game and again he is not a PF, never has been.

Let me ask a question. What is it that Cam Johnson does better than OG? I'll give you 3 pointers but I'll remind you that career Cam is .390 Which is very good. Now, you ask what is OG's career shooting?



.371

with MUCH better defense, being younger and being better all other counting stats. So again: what does Cam do better?


I'll wait.

The question is whether OG is CamJO + 2-3 FRP better and I think that's far and away a no.

I'll certainly give OG the defensive edge and obviously the defensive counting stats would be in his favor but aside from that, I don't think he's significantly better at anything else. I don't mind if you make a case for OG being an overall better player when you take defense into consideration but again, it comes down to value and OG is just not CamJo PLUS 2-3 FRP better.

2023 season stats
2023 CamJo per100
PPG: 26.5
RPG: 7.7
ORPG: 1.6
APG: 3.0
SPG:1.6
BPG: 0.8
TO: 0.8
PF: 3.5
FTr: 19.9%
TS%: 60.3%
3PT%: 44.3%
ORTG: 128
DRTG: 113

2023 OG per100
PPG: 23.3
RPG: 7.6
ORPG: 2.1
APG: 2.8
SPG: 2.9
BPG: 1.1
TO: 3.0
PF: 4.1
FTr: 21.7%
TS%: 56.2%
3PT%: 36.6
ORTG: 109
DRTG: 113

Career stats
Career CamJo per100
PPG: 21.2
RPG: 7.2
ORPG: 1.4
APG: 2.8
SPG: 1.4
BPG: 0.6
TO: 1.3
PF: 3.2
FTr: 15.8%
TS%: 59.7%
3PT%: 39.7%
ORTG: 119
DRTG: 111

Career OG per100
PPG: 19.7
RPG: 7.5
ORPG: 1.9
APG: 2.6
SPG: 2.1
BPG: 0.9
TO: 2.2
FTr: 18.4%
TS%: 57.3%
3PT%: 37.1
ORTG: 111
DRTG: 109

So for me, OG is clearly better defensively, he's objectively younger and likely has a higher ceiling because of the athleticism. On the other hand, I think Cam is going to be paid less, Cam hasn't had the opportunities OG has had to fully showcase what he can do and I think Cam is comfortable in his role whereas OG seems to want a much bigger role.

[Slim Charless]

That’s a no brainer to send Crowder to the bucks for Nwora and say Connaughton, plus a couple seconds and flip Nwora Shamet (one year) and Payne plus even one FRP for Anunoby. Suns add OG and Connaughton But Two FRP and Cam- too much.

FRP (protected) + filler for OG should give the Dinos flippable assets and expirings.

How much do we need to pay OG though?

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

This is funny to read. I'm on the Raptors board right now having the same conversations with them and they're telling me that they need 4 FRPs+CamJo for OG...some want Ayton as well.

Over here it's a couple of seconds, a protected FRP and Shamet for OG.


Always funny how fanbases rate their own players as compared to another team's.

Both them and you guys have told me that Shams is full of it and doesn't know what he's talking about. So there's that at least.

[bwgood77]

Really interested to see if anything comes of the Raptors meeting. I think Ayton makes a lot of sense for that team and you know I have a man crush on Achiuwa as a replacement for him as long as there's something else coming back.

I think it's probably FVV (or at least that makes sense even though we were also rumored for Trent). Though FVV will be an UFA this offseason so even though an Ayton for FVV and Precious might seem like an ok deal, it doesn't make sense if he suddenly could walk. And he wants $30-$35 million a year.

Gary Trent Jr could also become an UFA or exercise a player option of over $18 million.

Jones seems like the type of GM that might trade Ayton for one of them and Precious or something but it doesn't seem like that would be wise if they are likely UFAs wanting to get paid...FVV over $30 and if GT JR turns down his player option he'd want more than $20.

I think Ayton is probably more likely to be traded this offseaason for something like Poeltl in a S&T with another player...Jones would probably rather have McDermott since he can play now over a younger guy. (Hopefully Ishbia would push for a younger guy)....or Detroit for Bojan to get a win now player, and maybe a big from them...though Bojan getting older...still more of a Jones type win now move..the 24 year old C for older player. Or maybe the best option, though not great due to Rozier's play this year, Rozier and Plumlee.

I can see those 3 moves..they make sense.

Ishbia going to be pretty hands on I don't think Jones will be able to make whatever moves he wants.

I agree. So it will depend on whether or not he agrees with Jones on making those types of moves, how much he values Ayton, his trade value, etc.

[TeamTragic]

FRP (protected) + filler for OG should give the Dinos flippable assets and expirings.

How much do we need to pay OG though?

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

This is funny to read. I'm on the Raptors board right now having the same conversations with them and they're telling me that they need 4 FRPs+CamJo for OG...some want Ayton as well.

Over here it's a couple of seconds, a protected FRP and Shamet for OG.


Always funny how fanbases rate their own players as compared to another team's.

Both them and you guys have told me that Shams is full of it and doesn't know what he's talking about. So there's that at least.

Dreaming is free

[bwgood77]

Really interested to see if anything comes of the Raptors meeting. I think Ayton makes a lot of sense for that team and you know I have a man crush on Achiuwa as a replacement for him as long as there's something else coming back.

I think it's probably FVV (or at least that makes sense even though we were also rumored for Trent). Though FVV will be an UFA this offseason so even though an Ayton for FVV and Precious might seem like an ok deal, it doesn't make sense if he suddenly could walk. And he wants $30-$35 million a year.

Gary Trent Jr could also become an UFA or exercise a player option of over $18 million.

Jones seems like the type of GM that might trade Ayton for one of them and Precious or something but it doesn't seem like that would be wise if they are likely UFAs wanting to get paid...FVV over $30 and if GT JR turns down his player option he'd want more than $20.

I think Ayton is probably more likely to be traded this offseaason for something like Poeltl in a S&T with another player...Jones would probably rather have McDermott since he can play now over a younger guy. (Hopefully Ishbia would push for a younger guy)....or Detroit for Bojan to get a win now player, and maybe a big from them...though Bojan getting older...still more of a Jones type win now move..the 24 year old C for older player. Or maybe the best option, though not great due to Rozier's play this year, Rozier and Plumlee.

I can see those 3 moves..they make sense.

Peotl again lol.....and you get on me about my bringing up Presti or moving Ayton for OG/Siakam/actual good players.


You are aware that Peotl is a UFA and as such will not be taking discounts. So if are we sign and trading Ayton for him, how much....

Sure I'd like to trade him for Siakam, OG, etc, but I'm talking more realistic trades based on value Poeltl would have to be a S&T. He will probably make somewhere in between $20 and $25. Probably lower end of that.

[lilfishi22]

That’s a no brainer to send Crowder to the bucks for Nwora and say Connaughton, plus a couple seconds and flip Nwora Shamet (one year) and Payne plus even one FRP for Anunoby. Suns add OG and Connaughton But Two FRP and Cam- too much.

FRP (protected) + filler for OG should give the Dinos flippable assets and expirings.

How much do we need to pay OG though?

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

They key difference is Cam is getting his 2nd contract whereas OG is moving onto his 3rd. I'd say Cam is going get around what OG is on now (~$20m a year) whereas OG is going to want healthy pay increase from that $20m.

[BobbieL]

FRP (protected) + filler for OG should give the Dinos flippable assets and expirings.

How much do we need to pay OG though?

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

This is funny to read. I'm on the Raptors board right now having the same conversations with them and they're telling me that they need 4 FRPs+CamJo for OG...some want Ayton as well.

Over here it's a couple of seconds, a protected FRP and Shamet for OG.


Always funny how fanbases rate their own players as compared to another team's.

Both them and you guys have told me that Shams is full of it and doesn't know what he's talking about. So there's that at least.

For the record - I think a trade for OG will be Cam plus at two FRPs. They would take Shamet

That said - I would feel more comfortable if it was along the lines of Nwora Shamet the seconds from MilwAukee and two FRPs, one somewhat protected

Different levels - one reality. One hoping

[Slim Charless]

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

This is funny to read. I'm on the Raptors board right now having the same conversations with them and they're telling me that they need 4 FRPs+CamJo for OG...some want Ayton as well.

Over here it's a couple of seconds, a protected FRP and Shamet for OG.


Always funny how fanbases rate their own players as compared to another team's.

Both them and you guys have told me that Shams is full of it and doesn't know what he's talking about. So there's that at least.

Dreaming is free

They would say the same about your 2 seconds and a protected first suggestion. Truth probably lies in the middle: Cam +2 firsts if this happens.

PS: Gambo just had another tweet where he's defending his take that the above suggestion is what could be on the table

[bwgood77]

Those guys were not available early in the season. Those teams were trying to compete. DLo's name just came up. There was talk about whether WAS would try to keep Kuzma or not depending on how good they were. Interestestingly enough, they are bad and apparently he wants to stay (or I assume he does since WAS doesn't want to trade him so they probably have an understanding with his agent).

No thanks on Collins with that finger and the loss of being any sort of shooting threat.

He was shooting 40% on 3s in 19-20, 20-21, and 21-22 up until his injury. He comes back last year from injury and goes 2-16 from 3 and this year is at 26%.

Where have you heard Kuzma wants to stay with the Wizards? His name has been on the trade block since November since the Wizards have held the same fear of Kuzma opting out and becoming a free agent this summer since then. I know the Wizards don't want to trade him, but if he wants to leave I could see the Wizards wanting to get some value back.

D'Lo's name has been on the trade block since at least this summer.

Spoiler:

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Yeah Collins finger is definitely a concern. I think that is for sure a reason the Hawks are actively looking to trade him, especially come playoff time, teams will just sag off him if he is on the 3P line. Interesting enough about Collins he is still shooting above 50% from 10-16 feet which is somewhat noteworthy.

I haven't heard he wants to stay there but I imagine if they don't want to trade him and they are not playoff bound, that they know he is willing to stay if they pay him. But maybe they are willing on taking a gamble and would trade him for Cam or something, though I wouldn't give up Cam for him. Unless you are talking giving up picks. Expirings don't really help them by themselves considering Kuzma expires anyway.

[Slim Charless]

I think it's probably FVV (or at least that makes sense even though we were also rumored for Trent). Though FVV will be an UFA this offseason so even though an Ayton for FVV and Precious might seem like an ok deal, it doesn't make sense if he suddenly could walk. And he wants $30-$35 million a year.

Gary Trent Jr could also become an UFA or exercise a player option of over $18 million.

Jones seems like the type of GM that might trade Ayton for one of them and Precious or something but it doesn't seem like that would be wise if they are likely UFAs wanting to get paid...FVV over $30 and if GT JR turns down his player option he'd want more than $20.

I think Ayton is probably more likely to be traded this offseaason for something like Poeltl in a S&T with another player...Jones would probably rather have McDermott since he can play now over a younger guy. (Hopefully Ishbia would push for a younger guy)....or Detroit for Bojan to get a win now player, and maybe a big from them...though Bojan getting older...still more of a Jones type win now move..the 24 year old C for older player. Or maybe the best option, though not great due to Rozier's play this year, Rozier and Plumlee.

I can see those 3 moves..they make sense.

Peotl again lol.....and you get on me about my bringing up Presti or moving Ayton for OG/Siakam/actual good players.


You are aware that Peotl is a UFA and as such will not be taking discounts. So if are we sign and trading Ayton for him, how much....

Sure I'd like to trade him for Siakam, OG, etc, but I'm talking more realistic trades based on value Poeltl would have to be a S&T. He will probably make somewhere in between $20 and $25. Probably lower end of that.

So you think giving them Ayton and taking on McDermott plus paying Peotl 25/yr is a good move that will make the Suns a title contending team?

[lilfishi22]

Have to pay Cam if you keep him
Havfe to pay OG if you trade for him

All depends on how many loans can be written the next few years by Ishbia's company

This is funny to read. I'm on the Raptors board right now having the same conversations with them and they're telling me that they need 4 FRPs+CamJo for OG...some want Ayton as well.

Over here it's a couple of seconds, a protected FRP and Shamet for OG.


Always funny how fanbases rate their own players as compared to another team's.

Both them and you guys have told me that Shams is full of it and doesn't know what he's talking about. So there's that at least.

For the record - I think a trade for OG will be Cam plus at two FRPs. They would take Shamet

That said - I would feel more comfortable if it was along the lines of Nwora Shamet the seconds from MilwAukee and two FRPs, one somewhat protected

Different levels - one reality. One hoping

I would want another asset back, not just moving off Shamet salary which does nothing for us because we can't even use the savings

[sunsbum]

I don’t see JJ trading a twin and one of the best shooters in the league, not to mention his best accomplishment as a suns GM. Y’all are getting whipped up over twitter reporters rather than listening to JJ himself. I’d imagine we will trade 3ish picks and some fillers.