Pippen vs PG 13 vs Jimmy Butler, Prime and peak

[dygaction]

who do you get for
higher peak?
higher prime?

[Jaivl]

This comparison gets made every month I feel.

Pippen > Butler > George
in both, also for careers.

Very small differences. I have peak Pippen and Butler at around +4, peak George around +3.25 but on multiple different years.

Although, considering peak offense and peak defense together, I feel George may be the best of the bunch. He got very shafted by injuries.

[migya]

Still Pippen for all.

[Colbinii]

Butler is on his 9th season prime posting 23.2 PER, 58.7 TS%, 85 WS, 4.3 OBPM, 583 TS+ and a post-season of 22.7 PER, 57.5 TS%, .195 WS/48 [11.9 WS], 4.6 OBPM

Pippen during his 8-year prime posted 21.2 PER, 54.6 TS%, 87.4 WS, 3.9 OBPM, 253 TS+ and a post-season of 19.5 PER, 52.1 TS%, .157 WS/48 [18 WS], 3.5 OBPM

It is fair to say Butler and Pippen had different roles with Butler typically being an Alpha or #1/#1B option while Pippen was a #2 to one of the GOATs. I prefer Butler as I believe he is easier to build around, especially as a #1 or #1B type player. He is a better post-season scorer by a significant margin, better isolation scorer and still an all-defensive calibre defender.

[Jaivl]

Butler is on his 9th season prime posting 23.2 PER, 58.7 TS%, 85 WS, 4.3 OBPM, 583 TS+ and a post-season of 22.7 PER, 57.5 TS%, .195 WS/48 [11.9 WS], 4.6 OBPM

Pippen during his 8-year prime posted 21.2 PER, 54.6 TS%, 87.4 WS, 3.9 OBPM, 253 TS+ and a post-season of 19.5 PER, 52.1 TS%, .157 WS/48 [18 WS], 3.5 OBPM

It is fair to say Butler and Pippen had different roles with Butler typically being an Alpha or #1/#1B option while Pippen was a #2 to one of the GOATs. I prefer Butler as I believe he is easier to build around, especially as a #1 or #1B type player. He is a better post-season scorer by a significant margin, better isolation scorer and still an all-defensive calibre defender.

Yes Butler is a better offensive player.

[AEnigma]

An era relative question for me.

Pippen at his best was hovering around top five, and he was a consistent top ten throughout his prime. But by that scale I suppose Baylor and Arizin comfortably clear him too, so it is not the most useful one.

I do not like completely abandoning era relativity either though, because all you can ever really do is play to your era. In the Peaks Project I commented how in an absolute sense I do not think Rick Barry was better at basketball than several modern forwards, but I respect that for one year he was flirting with that “best player” title (mostly because of injury to Kareem) in a way never remotely true for guys like Pierce (or for this comparison, George or Butler). Or if we want to scale it up, I am not really convinced Butler could not replicate Julius Erving’s prime if transposed to the 1970s, but Erving was the one who actually achieved that level of success for himself.

What I do then is analyse the skillsets, i.e. how do they fare in a modern setting. Arizin, tough to see him faring well. Baylor and Barry, respect them, but very much a product of their era too. With Pippen (and Erving), I think he translates a little more naturally; that high defensive base helps a lot, because elite defence never stops being relevant. And on that note, I think the most direct modern equivalent to what Pippen may be today is a blend of Draymond and Siakam — which would not be a player I value intrinsically less than Butler or George overall. None of these player are likely to lead title teams, so a player fitting more naturally as a secondary option by virtue of being the better defender and having the least value tied to their scoring evens out some of the advantage George and Butler have as flawed first options. In an absolute sense, though, yeah, peak/prime Paul George would destroy the 1990s with his shooting, and 2017-22 Butler probably makes for a better lead in more circumstances than Pippen does.

Between the two modern players, I take George for peak (2019 was special) and something of a draw for prime.

[OhayoKD]

Peak is butler I think. Rest is Pippen for now imo. I'd take the very best of butler over anything pippen has, but 94 was a great postseason ontop of a strong regular season and I think he pulled a "playoff Jimmy" in 91 as well.