2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

I don’t get the overlove for a SG. Period. Especially when Bridges can fill in there. He’s our best back up to Book IMO. Monty just needs to shelve the hockey line mentality. Best players need to play.

Do you really trust Shamet or Payne in the playoffs?

For me, the answer is no. Payne isn't healthy - in a walking boot still per Gambo
Shamet has been inconsistent

For me, the Suns need a guy who can get buckets. Just so happens those guys available, potentially are Russell, GTJr and maybe Clarkson. Who knows abot Bogdon in Atlanta.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Another example of Ayton's underappreciated value to this team??

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Slim Charless]

Well that's interesting. Wonder what that means....?

For all those who couldn't figure it out....that's our own Devin Booker talking to Fred.

Maybe FVV and OG for Ayton and CamJo....

[Jdiddy701]

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Another example of Ayton's underappreciated value to this team??

Fans would do anything they can to highlight a small sample size of a random stat to make DA look better than what he is. I have so many thoughts on this silly stat. A few are: how does that compare to other centers AND 15 attempts is pretty low. I think we all know why that sample size is so low though.


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[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Slim Charless]

I'd bet almost anything that 1 of those Dinos will be a Sun in 10 days. Not sure which one but FVV/OG/Siakam seem prime for a move to the valley.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Another example of Ayton's underappreciated value to this team??

Fans would do anything they can to highlight a small sample size of a random stat to make DA look better than what he is. I have so many thoughts on this silly stat. A few are: how does that compare to other centers AND 15 attempts is pretty low. I think we all know why that sample size is so low though.


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Just like others (Ayton antagonists) will say anything they can to downplay or minimize his value to our team LOL
IF you seem to have issues against this stats claim, feel free to actually legitimately prove your argument against it.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

A Jones vs. Ujiri trade scares the **** out of me. What are the chances we don't come out of that completely taken advantage of?

[sunskerr]

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Another example of Ayton's underappreciated value to this team??

Fans would do anything they can to highlight a small sample size of a random stat to make DA look better than what he is. I have so many thoughts on this silly stat. A few are: how does that compare to other centers AND 15 attempts is pretty low. I think we all know why that sample size is so low though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just like others (Ayton antagonists) will say anything they can to downplay or minimize his value to our team LOL
IF you seem to have issues against this stats claim, feel free to actually legitimately prove your argument against it.

A sample size of 15 is generally pretty low. That's enough to ignore it.

Im also getting kind of tired of cherry picked stats and clips posted on twitter in general (StatMuse should be banned from Twitter imo) and when it comes to Ayton. They're generally not really overcoming everyone's main concern with Ayton which is that we're investing ~$35m in a guy who doesn't create offense. He's a finisher, and that's fine, but if we're using stats like this and clips of him doing basic stuff he's done for years to justify his existence on this team - on that contract - and trying to extrapolate it "prove" his value, that's pretty weak.

We already know what somewhat his value is - he's a versatile defender and he'll get his points on finishes and a couple of post ups when he has his man beat. He's got an edge on other quick switch centers because he's taller than most of them by a couple inches. The question is how much do you value that skill set on the team for the cost it comes at.

Ultimately the best way to gauge his value is to try and see what other teams GMs and their fans think of him. I don't think other fans regard him quite as much as some of his bigger fans here, and maybe not even as much as I do. We might be able to get a read on what Toronto thinks of him if there are any leaks, or (of course) if Ayton is traded to Toronto and what we get back.

[Saberestar]

BOOM

The Phoenix Suns are signing guard Saben Lee to a two-way NBA deal and waiving Duane Washington Jr., sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Lee earns deal with Suns after strong stint on 10-days. Washington has scoring ability, averaging 8 points in 13 minutes per game this season.

[Qwigglez]

Confirmed. John Collins would welcome a trade to the Suns.

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Asked what does it feel like playing here and John Collins says "I like it" and smiles "get to wake up to some sun". Talks about being a packed house, and then says "I always enjoy playing here" and "I'm just trying to continue that." "I like Phoenix" says he has a connection with CP3. Shows his finger, doesn't look bad.

[sunsbum]

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Another example of Ayton's underappreciated value to this team??

This David guys is really simping for Ayton lately.

[Qwigglez]

BOOM

The Phoenix Suns are signing guard Saben Lee to a two-way NBA deal and waiving Duane Washington Jr., sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Lee earns deal with Suns after strong stint on 10-days. Washington has scoring ability, averaging 8 points in 13 minutes per game this season.

Holy crap. As I wrote in the previous page, I felt James Jones was contemplating between DWJ and Lee, but I thought he would have opted for DWJ. However... as I was thinking back on it, I remember someone posting on Twitter how DWJ is only good in short bursts, and Monty had to sub him out in the 2nd half because he is prone to make many mistakes. And I feel when looking back at Lee's contribution, he was rather impressive with meaningful minutes. Additionally, he provided stability at the PG spot when the Suns were struggling to bring the ball up the court with no CP3 or Booker.

Solid move. DWJ if he can just stay consistent, continue working on his craft, I think he could be a role player in the league. He just isn't ready yet.

[Qwigglez]

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Another example of Ayton's underappreciated value to this team??

This David guys is really simping for Ayton lately.

While everyone else is bagging on DA, David is trying to highlight his impressive stats so GMs will see it and would be more willing to trade the farm for DA. The rest of you guys aren't helping the cause!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Can the Pels even afford to take on Anunoby with them being at 169 million and well over the LT next season? Is there a secondary pivot for us IF either team were to trade for Anunoby? Does a Grant offer then become more intriguing if one of these teams blows there assets/cap flexibility on Anunoby? Or does going stronger on Vanderbilt or trading for Collins at lowest possible value in a buy low/ trade high value recoup premise seem more reasonable?? I think IF one of those teams were to actually trade for Anunoby, I'd (personally) prioritize our pivot options as so:

1- Jerami Grant offer.
2- Buy low on Collins, And have him play in a post presence/ rebounding and rim protecting role utilizing his athleticism whilst we seek to recoup his value and see if he can recover from his finger issues? Or perhaps acquire him solely with intent to flip him to Utah for Sexton/Naw/Vanderbilt? (Add a protected future first IF necessary)???
3- Straight trade for Vanderbilt from Utah. Then follow up that trade with a trade for Trent Jr from Toronto? Cost = Something like Shamet/Saric/ protected 1st for Trent, and Craig or Payne/ (top 8 lotto protected) 1st for V8?

[Qwigglez]

Can the Pels even afford to take on Anunoby with them being at 169 million and well over the LT next season? Is there a secondary pivot for us IF either team were to trade for Anunoby? Does a Grant offer then become more intriguing if one of these teams blows there assets/cap flexibility on Anunoby? Or does going stronger on Vanderbilt or trading for Collins at lowest possible value in a buy low/ trade high value recoup premise seem more reasonable??

Well the Pels would certainly trump the Suns offer automatically just because they own the 2023 Lakers 1st, and then the Bucks 2025 and 2027 pick. I see the Pels easily making this deal. I could see the Pels potentially making a deal over the summer, or even before the next deadline if they feel salaries will be an issue and they can probably trade Ingram or Anunoby depending on who they like more. However, until then I don't see why they wouldn't make a deal, unless it's to conserve salary and not overspend.

But yeah, Suns backup options are probably John Collins, Jerami Grant. Grant even more so than Collins just because he can spread the floor better. However, I'm sure James Jones is aware how much money Grant wants this off-season and I think that makes Collins contract far more appealing.

[kennydorglas]

Confirmed. John Collins would welcome a trade to the Suns.

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Asked what does it feel like playing here and John Collins says "I like it" and smiles "get to wake up to some sun". Talks about being a packed house, and then says "I always enjoy playing here" and "I'm just trying to continue that." "I like Phoenix" says he has a connection with CP3. Shows his finger, doesn't look bad.

Oh wow that damn smile when he said PHX SUNS.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Fans would do anything they can to highlight a small sample size of a random stat to make DA look better than what he is. I have so many thoughts on this silly stat. A few are: how does that compare to other centers AND 15 attempts is pretty low. I think we all know why that sample size is so low though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just like others (Ayton antagonists) will say anything they can to downplay or minimize his value to our team LOL
IF you seem to have issues against this stats claim, feel free to actually legitimately prove your argument against it.

A sample size of 15 is generally pretty low. That's enough to ignore it.

Im also getting kind of tired of cherry picked stats and clips posted on twitter in general (StatMuse should be banned from Twitter imo) and when it comes to Ayton. They're generally not really overcoming everyone's main concern with Ayton which is that we're investing ~$35m in a guy who doesn't create offense. He's a finisher, and that's fine, but if we're using stats like this and clips of him doing basic stuff he's done for years to justify his existence on this team - on that contract - and trying to extrapolate it "prove" his value, that's pretty weak.

We already know what somewhat his value is - he's a versatile defender and he'll get his points on finishes and a couple of post ups when he has his man beat. He's got an edge on other quick switch centers because he's taller than most of them by a couple inches. The question is how much do you value that skill set on the team for the cost it comes at.

Ultimately the best way to gauge his value is to try and see what other teams GMs and their fans think of him. I don't think other fans regard him quite as much as some of his bigger fans here, and maybe not even as much as I do. We might be able to get a read on what Toronto thinks of him if there are any leaks, or (of course) if Ayton is traded to Toronto and what we get back.

I get that man! I really do. But what so many are willfully choosing to ignore and the bigger representative picture it alludes to here is the premise I've mentioned many times before in that regardless of an singular or small sample offensive rebounding reference. Ayton's actually an underrated passer and the sheer oppositional gravity he creates gets our perimeter players much better higher percentage open looks and offensive opportunities. I could only imagine how lethal this premise could be in the postseason with Paul, Book, Bridges, JOHNSON, LEE and maybe.........just maybe even Shamet all being left wide open on the perimeter. It's just a very simple truth! Especially given the statistical shooting percentage improvements over the span of games even if Booker out. Unless people would rather argue it's just a very convenient coincidence.

So the stat small sample or not, is reflective of the above stated premise and still indicates underappreciated value Ayton provides. However IF he's traded and we're still able to somehow experience those same outlier percentages with a lesser center, Absolutely feel free to tell me I'm wrong!