Current rule, any decade team beats 2010s best?

[dygaction]

I don't ask you about Russell, I ask you about Havlicek. Does it mean that you don't really know how Havlicek played?

I guess I don't need to watch any Harden games to know he's a bad shooter - 44% career from the field is bad after all.

Statistics makes it easier to draw conclusions, but it would be nice to understand what these statistics actually measure, you know?

I mean if someone can shoot 3s at 44% now, I don't see how 44% can be that impressive anyways without a 3pt line. Oh, to be sure, if Harden does not span the 50% higher value 3s at a good rate, 44% would make him a chucker...

So be aware that most of elite shooters now wouldn't be good shooters in the 1970s by your logic.

They would not necessarily be the most elite shooters, but certainly still great shooters, with a few might struggle because of style of play with different physicality

[penbeast0]

...I don't have to watch Russell's play to know he was a terrible shooter as a center as his FG% again is at 44%. I can assume ALL their shooting were jumpers, still not that impressive. Statistics makes it easier to draw conclusions, you know.

Actually, you may be able to quote statistics, but you also need to understand them and put them in context as I said earlier.

By 1969, that's a terrible percentage for a big man in the NBA. In Russell's 1st 4 years in the NBA, he was 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in the NBA in efg while the league was shooting an average efficiency of .388 from the floor (lower in ts% because of his poor FT shooting). But the league improved tremendously fast and Russell's shooting didn't so he went from being an efficient finisher to being an inefficient one.

However (more context), his early scoring was closer to the basket with more dunks/putbacks/etc. When Cousy was being replaced by KC Jones, they moved Russell outside to the high post to act as more of a passing hub since KC was not a playmaker like Cousy. This made his shots more difficult as his career progressed because that's the role they asked him to play.

[MyUniBroDavis]

3-10ft and 10-16ft AD is averaging 45% and 42%,
Rip Hamilton averaged 41% and 43%,
Kobe averaged 44% and 43%,
Embiid is averaging 42% and 43%, unless you think they would be poor shooters as well in 70s... AD is a good big man shooter in any day and age, especially elite going back 50 yrs.

When did we start calling 3-10 finishing "shooting"? Why did you exclude long midranges? Because his efficiency is very mediocre from that range?

All players you mentioned are clearly better shooters than Davis, though only Embiid is a bigman.

Just because they were not tracked does not mean 70 players were all mysteriously good shooters...

Just because they wete not tracked does not mean the opposite. Are you aware there were actually great shooters back then?

Also when you say "AD would be literally the worst shooter out of 1970s, probably with the exception of Kareem", did you even check Havlicek career 44%, layup, dunk included?

I don't need to check it, because I know it. I also know that Havlicek was purely a jumpshooter who took very low amount of inside shots. You know, things like these can be aquired by watching games and tracking field goals, not by looking at basketball-reference.

I'd like to know how many Havlicek games have yoy watched.

Because 3-10 also requires shooting touch and feeling, and why do I need my center to shoot 16+ the most inefficient jumpers anyways? I used Embiid because Embiid is not a better shooter than AD and considered a great shooter big man.

Just because you watch it doesn't mean you have to twist a 44% player from anywhere a better shooter than a 52% player who shoot 42% from 10-16ft, especially by abusing the word "literally"... Glad there is bb-ref, otherwise Havlicek can be shooting GOD, oh, wait, that would hurt Russell...

I’m a Davis fan, and obviously I don’t have a high opinion on older players in an absolute sense and think 2010s sweep, but like yeah AD doesn’t shoot better than Embiid, at least since his shoulder got messed up. Been shooting better lately tho

He does have a better touch in the midpoint tho for sure but he’s god level at tha

[dygaction]

...I don't have to watch Russell's play to know he was a terrible shooter as a center as his FG% again is at 44%. I can assume ALL their shooting were jumpers, still not that impressive. Statistics makes it easier to draw conclusions, you know.

Actually, you may be able to quote statistics, but you also need to understand them and put them in context as I said earlier.

By 1969, that's a terrible percentage for a big man in the NBA. In Russell's 1st 4 years in the NBA, he was 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in the NBA in efg while the league was shooting an average efficiency of .388 from the floor (lower in ts% because of his poor FT shooting). But the league improved tremendously fast and Russell's shooting didn't so he went from being an efficient finisher to being an inefficient one.

However (more context), his early scoring was closer to the basket with more dunks/putbacks/etc. When Cousy was being replaced by KC Jones, they moved Russell outside to the high post to act as more of a passing hub since KC was not a playmaker like Cousy. This made his shots more difficult as his career progressed because that's the role they asked him to play.

There is a big difference between "efficient finisher" and "good shooter". The second one is what I was talking about. In this thread, we are talking about all decade teams bringing their own advantages/disadvantages, so they are compared to many ATG shooters anyways, or more specifically at least AD.

[dygaction]

When did we start calling 3-10 finishing "shooting"? Why did you exclude long midranges? Because his efficiency is very mediocre from that range?

All players you mentioned are clearly better shooters than Davis, though only Embiid is a bigman.


Just because they wete not tracked does not mean the opposite. Are you aware there were actually great shooters back then?


I don't need to check it, because I know it. I also know that Havlicek was purely a jumpshooter who took very low amount of inside shots. You know, things like these can be aquired by watching games and tracking field goals, not by looking at basketball-reference.

I'd like to know how many Havlicek games have yoy watched.

Because 3-10 also requires shooting touch and feeling, and why do I need my center to shoot 16+ the most inefficient jumpers anyways? I used Embiid because Embiid is not a better shooter than AD and considered a great shooter big man.

Just because you watch it doesn't mean you have to twist a 44% player from anywhere a better shooter than a 52% player who shoot 42% from 10-16ft, especially by abusing the word "literally"... Glad there is bb-ref, otherwise Havlicek can be shooting GOD, oh, wait, that would hurt Russell...

I’m a Davis fan, and obviously I don’t have a high opinion on older players in an absolute sense and think 2010s sweep, but like yeah AD doesn’t shoot better than Embiid, at least since his shoulder got messed up. Been shooting better lately tho

He does have a better touch in the midpoint tho for sure but he’s god level at tha

AD is good but not Embiid level, mostly because at long range and 3pt line. He is comparable from short to mid range.