2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[bwgood77]

I'm pretty surprised most wouldn't trade Cam and a first for OG.

I would not, even with his struggles in the last few games. I don’t even think I’d trade Cam Johnson straight up for OG. I’m probably really undervaluing OG but I really enjoy watching Cam play, and he’s also a great person off the court. It’s kind of a toss up imo between the two, loyalty to Cam outweighs it for me. I don’t think we’ve seen the best of Cam Johnson yet.

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We may not have seen the best, but the same can be said for OG, who is younger and already probably a 1st team all defense guy who has scored 17 ppg the last two years (16 the year before), while shooting 36-40% from 3 the last 4 years and is averaging over 2 steals a game as well.

[bwoolf2]

With the Raps, Ayton + Shamet for Vleet + Trent Jr + Achiuwa works as far as money. Could throw in Crowder for Thad if they want more salary relief. But I would guess they would want Cam Payne back needing a guard coming back.

Gross...

[sunskerr]

With the Raps, Ayton + Shamet for Vleet + Trent Jr + Achiuwa works as far as money. Could throw in Crowder for Thad if they want more salary relief. But I would guess they would want Cam Payne back needing a guard coming back.

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

[BobbieL]

I'm pretty surprised most wouldn't trade Cam and a first for OG.

I would not, even with his struggles in the last few games. I don’t even think I’d trade Cam Johnson straight up for OG. I’m probably really undervaluing OG but I really enjoy watching Cam play, and he’s also a great person off the court. It’s kind of a toss up imo between the two, loyalty to Cam outweighs it for me. I don’t think we’ve seen the best of Cam Johnson yet.

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We may not have seen the best, but the same can be said for OG, who is younger and already probably a 1st team all defense guy who has scored 17 ppg the last two years (16 the year before), while shooting 36-40% from 3 the last 4 years and is averaging over 2 steals a game as well.

Probably would change my vote with his all defense capabilities. He and Mikal on the wings would be nails

[bwgood77]

https://www.espn.com/nba/

1) Good - very good. Realistic. With the status of Shamet and Payne - I like Curry. Much better than Eric Gordon

2) thats a lot of draft picks - -but what the heck - Siakam has been fantastic this year

3) vomit emoji x 100

Siakim problem is you won't be able to resign him he is going to be all nba and available for the supermax while I think ishbia will pay luxury tax he isn't paying hu dres of millions in tax

I was thinking maybe he wouldn't be All NBA, which yes, would vastly increase the cost I had mentioned earlier. But maybe so. Not sure how many Fs would be ahead of him, but maybe hard to think of 6...and could depend on how many games guys like Kawhi and Zion play (and AD if he could get in as a forward). Still could even make it with them and Tatum though maybe. Also not sure about Markkanen, if he would be a forward or if is thought of as better than Siakam.

[Ghost of Kleine]

The reality in finding another star to place next to Booker is quite simply through the draft and always has been. All stars have inevitably come from the draft and then been properly nurtured and developed in a solid environment. Other stars overcome poor environments and adversity to still reach their outlier outcomes. But the most cost effective and best odds of acquiring a star talent is still the draft. I mean how often do legitimate star players actually become available in trades or free agency?? Almost never because their teams just don't let them go! And even in the very miniscule outlier instances of them actually becoming available, You have to have an absurd cache of premium assets to even field a competitive offer for one! And even more so in today's NBA climate. And the sad reality is that we as a franchise simply don't have near enough premium assets (even with all of our picks) to field a competitive offer for a star player compared to many other current teams!

We blew those opportunities thanks to Jones aversion to the draft and recognizing value of young cost controlled upside assets. Ironically what you'll find as mandatory inclusionary pieces in the outgoing framework of any star trade currently! Teams with plenty of young rookie or 2nd and 3rd year upside talent will outbid us for available stars UNLESS we're actually willing to offload our core pieces in the trades. But IF we do that, then the trade outcome becomes (at best) maybe slightly better than a lateral move IF we're lucky???

[Desertfox]

I'm pretty surprised most wouldn't trade Cam and a first for OG.

He is good but is duplicating Mikal and has the same injury problems as Cam. If Im trading Cam, I want someone who is more reliable.

[bwgood77]

With the Raps, Ayton + Shamet for Vleet + Trent Jr + Achiuwa works as far as money. Could throw in Crowder for Thad if they want more salary relief. But I would guess they would want Cam Payne back needing a guard coming back.

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

[Desertfox]

The reality in finding another star to place next to Booker is quite simply through the draft and always has been. All stars have inevitably come from the draft and then been properly nurtured and developed in a solid environment. Other stars overcome poor environments and adversity to still reach their outlier outcomes. But the most cost effective and best odds of acquiring a star talent is still the draft. I mean how often do legitimate star players actually become available in trades or free agency?? Almost never because their teams just don't let them go! And even in the very miniscule outlier instances of them actually becoming available, You have to have an absurd cache of premium assets to even field a competitive offer for one! And even more so in today's NBA climate. And the sad reality is that we as a franchise simply don't have near enough premium assets (even with all of our picks) to field a competitive offer for a star player compared to many other current teams!

We blew those opportunities thanks to Jones aversion to the draft and recognizing value of young cost controlled upside assets. Ironically what you'll find as mandatory inclusionary pieces in the outgoing framework of any star trade currently! Teams with plenty of young rookie or 2nd and 3rd year upside talent will outbid us for available stars UNLESS we're actually willing to offload our core pieces in the trades. But IF we do that, then the trade outcome becomes (at best) maybe slightly better than a lateral move IF we're lucky???

This right here, we could have Haliburton AND Bane right now... without giving up literally anyone (ok Craig but thats no loss). We'd be killing it.

[Bogyo]

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

I would violently vomit for days if we made that trade.

[Ghost of Kleine]

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

I would violently vomit for days if we made that trade.

[sunskerr]

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

Because your criticism of height is ostensibly irrelevant when in the context of what I've actually been saying:

I want Achiuwa AS PART OF A DEAL as a replacement for Ayton IF WE DO A DEAL WITH TORONTO INVOLVING AYTON. He is 6'8" switchable for perimeter play in the playoffs. If we are outsized, we have bigger bodies like Biyombo or Landale meaning we still keep some level of defensive versatility in terms of height when we lose Ayton's 7'1" frame.

No offense and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular when I say for the love of god people please stop taking other posters out of context especially when talking about other players. "Why are you so high on Achiuwa?" as if there isn't a adequate amount of qualifiers I've used EVERY SINGLE TIME I've posted about a trade with Toronto.

In one single trade you've acquired: a PG for next season, a scorer off the bench we desperately need, and a rotation-level replacement for Ayton

please please **** tell me how this is us getting beat in a trade

[Slim Charless]

With the Raps, Ayton + Shamet for Vleet + Trent Jr + Achiuwa works as far as money. Could throw in Crowder for Thad if they want more salary relief. But I would guess they would want Cam Payne back needing a guard coming back.

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

It's not that bad. FVV is gone as is GTJ so the value for Ayton isn't terrible. I personally would rather the potential of Koloko than Precious as BW said is very small to be playing the 5. Maybe add a CamP for OPJ addition onto that.

I'd do it and the Dinos would be wise to look long and hard at it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Read on Twitter

Without naming the players - hard to know

But if I had to guess - Gary Trent Jr and Boucher since an S&T with ayton was so tricky

I've always thought the smoke with Toronto revolved around Ayton, but this confirms it for me. I've always thought Indy signed him to an offer sheet as a favor to us. We've obviously been contemplating a potential Ayton-to-TOR scenario for a while.

I don't think it'll be a small package like this nonsense you've suggested. My guess is it would be a huge deal, the essential framework being:

They get Ayton to pair with Scottie and clear the books; we add protected picks; they tank.
We acquire all their salary obligations and acquire a 4-year window.

It doesn't work without Siakam - pure and simple. My guess is we're just talking about the ancillary players we get along with him - or who gets them instead. Who among Anunoby, FVV, GTJ, Boucher, Young, Birch, Achiuwa ends up in a Suns uni, and who goes elsewhere, and who gets what portion of the spoils from sending one or more of these guys to a third team?

Geez the more I think about it the realer it seems.

My bet is Anunoby goes to a third team and we get back Siakam and a bunch of guys, including from a third/fourth team. Cam Jo potentially on the move as part of it - but essentially a midseason roster makeover.

Hey, it worked for the Pelicans!

So who do we get to start in the front court with Siakam? Achiuwa? Aldama or Tilman? Poeltl?

[sunskerr]

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

It's not that bad. FVV is gone as is GTJ so the value for Ayton isn't terrible. I personally would rather the potential of Koloko than Precious as BW said is very small to be playing the 5. Maybe add a CamP for OPJ addition onto that.

I'd do it and the Dinos would be wise to look long and hard at it.

You have literally solved every problem the suns have in that one trade and people are crying because we're giving up Ayton

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Gross...

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

It's not that bad. FVV is gone as is GTJ so the value for Ayton isn't terrible. I personally would rather the potential of Koloko than Precious as BW said is very small to be playing the 5. Maybe add a CamP for OPJ addition onto that.

I'd do it and the Dinos would be wise to look long and hard at it.

Hell naw, that sucks.

Y'all do realize that getting FVV just means we're sacrifice Ayton to downgrade on Paul, right? That ain't treading water. That's straight up sinking your ship.

[Slim Charless]

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

It's not that bad. FVV is gone as is GTJ so the value for Ayton isn't terrible. I personally would rather the potential of Koloko than Precious as BW said is very small to be playing the 5. Maybe add a CamP for OPJ addition onto that.

I'd do it and the Dinos would be wise to look long and hard at it.

Hell naw, that sucks.

Y'all do realize that getting FVV just means we're sacrifice Ayton to downgrade on Paul, right? That ain't treading water. That's straight up sinking your ship.

You guys complain about Ayton. ALL....THE...TIME

Now he is too good for that kinda haul or for Siakam? OMG I'm not sure what is going on here. Either he's good and everyone can stop bashing the guy day after day after day or he needs to be moved. If he sucks, then we can stop thinking he will get us Luka or Tatum or whomever.

There are no half measures here.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Without naming the players - hard to know

But if I had to guess - Gary Trent Jr and Boucher since an S&T with ayton was so tricky

I've always thought the smoke with Toronto revolved around Ayton, but this confirms it for me. I've always thought Indy signed him to an offer sheet as a favor to us. We've obviously been contemplating a potential Ayton-to-TOR scenario for a while.

I don't think it'll be a small package like this nonsense you've suggested. My guess is it would be a huge deal, the essential framework being:

They get Ayton to pair with Scottie and clear the books; we add protected picks; they tank.
We acquire all their salary obligations and acquire a 4-year window.

It doesn't work without Siakam - pure and simple. My guess is we're just talking about the ancillary players we get along with him - or who gets them instead. Who among Anunoby, FVV, GTJ, Boucher, Young, Birch, Achiuwa ends up in a Suns uni, and who goes elsewhere, and who gets what portion of the spoils from sending one or more of these guys to a third team?

Geez the more I think about it the realer it seems.

My bet is Anunoby goes to a third team and we get back Siakam and a bunch of guys, including from a third/fourth team. Cam Jo potentially on the move as part of it - but essentially a midseason roster makeover.

Hey, it worked for the Pelicans!

So who do we get to start in the front court with Siakam? Achiuwa? Aldama or Tilman? Poeltl?

Well maybe my trade was weak but it wasn't going to include Siakam or FVV. Maybe Anunoby at the time

It does seem like a lot of "chatter" about the Suns and Raptors this week and leading up to next week. Grnated, as others have said, might be better for the summer than now.

So as Week said, it might just be Crowder and something smaller this week; and this summer, a bigger deal

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Without naming the players - hard to know

But if I had to guess - Gary Trent Jr and Boucher since an S&T with ayton was so tricky

I've always thought the smoke with Toronto revolved around Ayton, but this confirms it for me. I've always thought Indy signed him to an offer sheet as a favor to us. We've obviously been contemplating a potential Ayton-to-TOR scenario for a while.

I don't think it'll be a small package like this nonsense you've suggested. My guess is it would be a huge deal, the essential framework being:

They get Ayton to pair with Scottie and clear the books; we add protected picks; they tank.
We acquire all their salary obligations and acquire a 4-year window.

It doesn't work without Siakam - pure and simple. My guess is we're just talking about the ancillary players we get along with him - or who gets them instead. Who among Anunoby, FVV, GTJ, Boucher, Young, Birch, Achiuwa ends up in a Suns uni, and who goes elsewhere, and who gets what portion of the spoils from sending one or more of these guys to a third team?

Geez the more I think about it the realer it seems.

My bet is Anunoby goes to a third team and we get back Siakam and a bunch of guys, including from a third/fourth team. Cam Jo potentially on the move as part of it - but essentially a midseason roster makeover.

Hey, it worked for the Pelicans!

So who do we get to start in the front court with Siakam? Achiuwa? Aldama or Tilman? Poeltl?

It'll be a smaller deal wherein we don't get Siakim but maybe just maybe Anunoby. But there's no way Jones doesn't get fleeced by Ujiri unfortunately!

[bwgood77]

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

Because your criticism of height is ostensibly irrelevant when in the context of what I've actually been saying:

I want Achiuwa AS PART OF A DEAL as a replacement for Ayton IF WE DO A DEAL WITH TORONTO INVOLVING AYTON. He is 6'8" switchable for perimeter play in the playoffs. If we are outsized, we have bigger bodies like Biyombo or Landale meaning we still keep some level of defensive versatility in terms of height when we lose Ayton's 7'1" frame.

No offense and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular when I say for the love of god people please stop taking other posters out of context especially when talking about other players. "Why are you so high on Achiuwa?" as if there isn't a adequate amount of qualifiers I've used EVERY SINGLE TIME I've posted about a trade with Toronto.

In one single trade you've acquired: a PG for next season, a scorer off the bench we desperately need, and a rotation-level replacement for Ayton

please please **** tell me how this is us getting beat in a trade

I did make an assumption there that Achiuwa was the reason you thought it would be highway robbery (and thought you said you loved him) given that GT Jr would be a vastly overpaid backup guard, and FVV is a below avg PG this season who is 5'10 and would be vastly overpaid.

I think in a nutshell if you just ignore the cap/tax completely it's a decent trade, but I think we'd be very exposed at C and get crushed on the boards. There is also far from a guarantee that we will have Biyombo next year. He is making the minimum and perhaps playing good enough that a team could offer him more than we can.

We wouldn't really have an avenue to get a decent C. There is a reason the Raptors desperately want one...even though they have Pascal, Precious, Boucher, etc.