2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[sunskerr]

This trade is highway robbery for us. Raptors would laugh us off the phone.

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

We would get destroyed in the playoffs, but sure let's build a 2k worthy regular season team of all players undersized for their positions

As with everything else in life, do yourself a favor and consider the entire picture instead of focusing on one shortcoming. The trade was for all 3 of FVV, Trent, and Achiuwa.

It's so shortsighted to focus on one single issue that it's actually so draining that I just don't feel like giving you an answer because you didn't even try to come up with something that I haven't already talked about a million times before.

Guess that's enough posting for me for a week. Good luck with whatever happens at the trade deadline my friends.

[bwgood77]

Because your criticism of height is ostensibly irrelevant when in the context of what I've actually been saying:

I want Achiuwa AS PART OF A DEAL as a replacement for Ayton IF WE DO A DEAL WITH TORONTO INVOLVING AYTON. He is 6'8" switchable for perimeter play in the playoffs. If we are outsized, we have bigger bodies like Biyombo or Landale meaning we still keep some level of defensive versatility in terms of height when we lose Ayton's 7'1" frame.

No offense and I'm not speaking to anyone in particular when I say for the love of god people please stop taking other posters out of context especially when talking about other players. "Why are you so high on Achiuwa?" as if there isn't a adequate amount of qualifiers I've used EVERY SINGLE TIME I've posted about a trade with Toronto.

In one single trade you've acquired: a PG for next season, a scorer off the bench we desperately need, and a rotation-level replacement for Ayton

please please **** tell me how this is us getting beat in a trade

I did make an assumption there that Achiuwa was the reason you thought it would be highway robbery (and thought you said you loved him) given that GT Jr would be a vastly overpaid backup guard, and FVV is a below avg PG this season who is 5'10 and would be vastly overpaid.

I think in a nutshell if you just ignore the cap/tax completely it's a decent trade, but I think we'd be very exposed at C and get crushed on the boards. There is also far from a guarantee that we will have Biyombo next year. He is making the minimum and perhaps playing good enough that a team could offer him more than we can.

We wouldn't really have an avenue to get a decent C. There is a reason the Raptors desperately want one...even though they have Pascal, Precious, Boucher, etc.

BW, I'm just happy you haven't suggested we trade for Peotl again. Thank you for that.

In all seriousness they need to do something. I know you listen to Zach Lowe. Did you hear his podcast this week with Tim Mcmahon, where they both essentially said that JJ is GMing for his job?

That is VERY interesting. Both of those guys have sources and could be wild if true

I think it's common sense that he would be GMing for his job. I have never suggested we trade for Poeltl, just that it is probably around Ayton's value to get a cheaper quality C, a shooter or potentially young piece and a pick given they have 3 extra firsts from Atlanta.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Looks like we might get outbid anyways. We don't have nearly the assests those teams do. The homers can rejoice.

Sad face.

What are either of those teams going to offer that's better than Ayton?

Memphis has a ton of young players are their picks and the Pelicans have tons of picks and someone like Herbert Jones and other young players..they could give Jones (OG being an upgrade) and Trey Murphy, Nance Jr, etc. I imagine they put two picks and two of those guys in a deal, they could get him unless Toronto REALLY wants Ayton.

[lilfishi22]

Ayton has never had an elite or even a solid true power forward supporting him yet. The same guys who are criticizing Ayton are always putting haystack-like CamJ next to him. At the same time Booker has one of the best defender(Mikal) in the league and one of the best point guard(CP3) of all time supporting him.

My question is who’s a solid PF in todays NBA? IMO, Crowder is the perfect PF next to Ayton. A traditional PF who does most of their work in the paint would only make Ayton worse. I’m not sure there’s any PF in the league that would make Ayton better. A player with all the tools that Ayton has should excel with guys like CP3 and Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Markannen, which we could have had for almost nothing... if only JJ realized he was the GM.

The majority of GMs didn't see Markannen as being the guy he is today either.

[bwoolf2]

I can't exactly understand why you are so high on Achiuwa. He is 6'8 so not exactly a guy you want playing C, and at PF he would be ok, but not nearly as good as Cam and can't shoot the 3. And do you really think FVV and Trent JR are worth $55 million? Trent wouldn't even start.

We would get destroyed in the playoffs, but sure let's build a 2k worthy regular season team of all players undersized for their positions

As with everything else in life, do yourself a favor and consider the entire picture instead of focusing on one shortcoming. The trade was for all 3 of FVV, Trent, and Achiuwa.

It's so shortsighted to focus on one single issue that it's actually so draining that I just don't feel like giving you an answer because you didn't even try to come up with something that I haven't already talked about a million times before.

Guess that's enough posting for me for a week. Good luck with whatever happens at the trade deadline my friends.

No idea what this word salad even means but ok

[WeekapaugGroove]

If New Orleans makes a trade I hope Murphy gets sent out. I swear that MF is shooting like 80% from 3 against Phoenix.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

The reality in finding another star to place next to Booker is quite simply through the draft and always has been. All stars have inevitably come from the draft and then been properly nurtured and developed in a solid environment. Other stars overcome poor environments and adversity to still reach their outlier outcomes. But the most cost effective and best odds of acquiring a star talent is still the draft. I mean how often do legitimate star players actually become available in trades or free agency?? Almost never because their teams just don't let them go! And even in the very miniscule outlier instances of them actually becoming available, You have to have an absurd cache of premium assets to even field a competitive offer for one! And even more so in today's NBA climate. And the sad reality is that we as a franchise simply don't have near enough premium assets (even with all of our picks) to field a competitive offer for a star player compared to many other current teams!

We blew those opportunities thanks to Jones aversion to the draft and recognizing value of young cost controlled upside assets. Ironically what you'll find as mandatory inclusionary pieces in the outgoing framework of any star trade currently! Teams with plenty of young rookie or 2nd and 3rd year upside talent will outbid us for available stars UNLESS we're actually willing to offload our core pieces in the trades. But IF we do that, then the trade outcome becomes (at best) maybe slightly better than a lateral move IF we're lucky???

lol virtually every player/star came through the draft....that's how the vast majority of NBA players (and busts) come into the NBA

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

It would really suck IF the Mavs were somehow able to get Lowry for some package around Finney Smith! Then they'd be even more frustrating to play against.

I'd welcome it. He's been on the block basically the entire season and possible even in the offseason. Lowry is a shell of his former self right now. Last playoffs he was a injured for half of their games and basically his entire time in Miami has been mostly underwhelming. He's far from Toronto Lowry

[lilfishi22]

You think the Raps want a 30+ mill C when theyve signalled theyre looking for young talent and picks. Dyson Daniels/Lakers picks/Warriors picks...etc, are what they got, and theyre more attractive to a team in the Raps position with a young strong prospect in Barnes

oh, I forgot Ayton was old and untalented. Dyson Daniels, of course.

But Dyson Daniels could be anything. He could even be another

OG Anunoby

Reminds me of those take $100 or choose the open the mystery box type situations

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

It would really suck IF the Mavs were somehow able to get Lowry for some package around Finney Smith! Then they'd be even more frustrating to play against.

I'd welcome it. He's been on the block basically the entire season and possible even in the offseason. Lowry is a shell of his former self right now. Last playoffs he was a injured for half of their games and basically his entire time in Miami has been mostly underwhelming. He's far from Toronto Lowry

The guy I don't want them getting is Russell from the TWolves. But the Twolves are in the thick of things in the West so he might not be as gettable as media have suggested.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

The reality in finding another star to place next to Booker is quite simply through the draft and always has been. All stars have inevitably come from the draft and then been properly nurtured and developed in a solid environment. Other stars overcome poor environments and adversity to still reach their outlier outcomes. But the most cost effective and best odds of acquiring a star talent is still the draft. I mean how often do legitimate star players actually become available in trades or free agency?? Almost never because their teams just don't let them go! And even in the very miniscule outlier instances of them actually becoming available, You have to have an absurd cache of premium assets to even field a competitive offer for one! And even more so in today's NBA climate. And the sad reality is that we as a franchise simply don't have near enough premium assets (even with all of our picks) to field a competitive offer for a star player compared to many other current teams!

We blew those opportunities thanks to Jones aversion to the draft and recognizing value of young cost controlled upside assets. Ironically what you'll find as mandatory inclusionary pieces in the outgoing framework of any star trade currently! Teams with plenty of young rookie or 2nd and 3rd year upside talent will outbid us for available stars UNLESS we're actually willing to offload our core pieces in the trades. But IF we do that, then the trade outcome becomes (at best) maybe slightly better than a lateral move IF we're lucky???

lol virtually every player/star came through the draft....that's how the vast majority of NBA players (and busts) come into the NBA

In a different universe Suns trade everyone, build an entirely new team with the picks the Suns got from trading said entire team. Suns win a championship with every single player still on their rookie contract, Suns still have picks from opposing teams, and have ample cap space to sign Lebron James even at 45 years old. GoK is still unhappy though because Suns didn't draft someone in the 2nd round that turned into a role player.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

It would really suck IF the Mavs were somehow able to get Lowry for some package around Finney Smith! Then they'd be even more frustrating to play against.

I'd welcome it. He's been on the block basically the entire season and possible even in the offseason. Lowry is a shell of his former self right now. Last playoffs he was a injured for half of their games and basically his entire time in Miami has been mostly underwhelming. He's far from Toronto Lowry

The guy I don't want them getting is Russell from the TWolves. But the Twolves are in the thick of things in the West so he might not be as gettable as media have suggested.

The problem with Dallas is their past decisions have really put a stranglehold on the trade offers they can make. They just don't have that many good assets to package up to turn into a star. Certainly not enough imo to get someone like Russell. DFS is nice but he's a role player and the only guy on their team who has real value because he can fit on most teams, he's a strong 3PT shooter (subpar this season), he's in his prime right now and he's also locked into a pretty team friendly contract. Everyone else is basically either underwhelming or overpaid.

That said, I'm not sure what the Wolves are looking for and they seem to have a history of also making very poor front office decisions (*cough* Gobert) so who knows maybe they'll accept highway robbery

[lilfishi22]

Spoiler:

The reality in finding another star to place next to Booker is quite simply through the draft and always has been. All stars have inevitably come from the draft and then been properly nurtured and developed in a solid environment. Other stars overcome poor environments and adversity to still reach their outlier outcomes. But the most cost effective and best odds of acquiring a star talent is still the draft. I mean how often do legitimate star players actually become available in trades or free agency?? Almost never because their teams just don't let them go! And even in the very miniscule outlier instances of them actually becoming available, You have to have an absurd cache of premium assets to even field a competitive offer for one! And even more so in today's NBA climate. And the sad reality is that we as a franchise simply don't have near enough premium assets (even with all of our picks) to field a competitive offer for a star player compared to many other current teams!

We blew those opportunities thanks to Jones aversion to the draft and recognizing value of young cost controlled upside assets. Ironically what you'll find as mandatory inclusionary pieces in the outgoing framework of any star trade currently! Teams with plenty of young rookie or 2nd and 3rd year upside talent will outbid us for available stars UNLESS we're actually willing to offload our core pieces in the trades. But IF we do that, then the trade outcome becomes (at best) maybe slightly better than a lateral move IF we're lucky???

lol virtually every player/star came through the draft....that's how the vast majority of NBA players (and busts) come into the NBA

In a different universe Suns trade everyone, build an entirely new team with the picks the Suns got from trading said entire team. Suns win a championship with every single player still on their rookie contract, Suns still have picks from opposing teams, and have ample cap space to sign Lebron James even at 45 years old. GoK is still unhappy though because Suns didn't draft someone in the 2nd round that turned into a role player.

And in another universe, the Suns have picks 1-5 and the 5 best prospects are rookie versions of HOF guys. We win 4 straight championships before their rookie contracts run out and then have to break it up because we can't afford 5 supermax contracts

[Qwigglez]

I didn't realize the Mavs just signed DFS and he has 4 years on that contract. THJ has 3 years on his contract. Only contract that is of value for the Mavs is Christian Wood's expiring $14 million this season. Dang did they goof on building around Luka. I still could see the Raptors maybe taking THJ and his 3 year contract for GTJ if the Mavs offer a pick. If the Mavs get Lowry, that doesn't do anything to solve their problems IMO. I think their most realistic target that can really help them is GTJ and he'd be an immediate upgrade over THJ.

Also, not sure if anyone caught EJ on a podcast earlier, but he mentioned he thinks if a deal goes down it will be on the 8th when Ishba is officially the owner. He said he believes IF the Suns are already in discussion with teams about deals, that they understand what is going on and the Suns can't really make deals until then. At least that is what I gathered.

[Slim Charless]

I did make an assumption there that Achiuwa was the reason you thought it would be highway robbery (and thought you said you loved him) given that GT Jr would be a vastly overpaid backup guard, and FVV is a below avg PG this season who is 5'10 and would be vastly overpaid.

I think in a nutshell if you just ignore the cap/tax completely it's a decent trade, but I think we'd be very exposed at C and get crushed on the boards. There is also far from a guarantee that we will have Biyombo next year. He is making the minimum and perhaps playing good enough that a team could offer him more than we can.

We wouldn't really have an avenue to get a decent C. There is a reason the Raptors desperately want one...even though they have Pascal, Precious, Boucher, etc.

BW, I'm just happy you haven't suggested we trade for Peotl again. Thank you for that.

In all seriousness they need to do something. I know you listen to Zach Lowe. Did you hear his podcast this week with Tim Mcmahon, where they both essentially said that JJ is GMing for his job?

That is VERY interesting. Both of those guys have sources and could be wild if true

I think it's common sense that he would be GMing for his job. I have never suggested we trade for Poeltl, just that it is probably around Ayton's value to get a cheaper quality C, a shooter or potentially young piece and a pick given they have 3 extra firsts from Atlanta.

Wait, what?

How can you say that it's common sense he's GMing for his job? I've been saying that for months and literally like virtually everyone, including yourself has told me that him and Monty are completely safe. Like it's me and Frank that have been the only guys in here complaining about those 2 for this season.

You can't seriously think that it's status quo to say that Monty and JJ are in jeopardy of losing their jobs?

Either way, hopefully JJ can make a good trade with Toronto. I think there's a lot there to be had.

[Slim Charless]

I did make an assumption there that Achiuwa was the reason you thought it would be highway robbery (and thought you said you loved him) given that GT Jr would be a vastly overpaid backup guard, and FVV is a below avg PG this season who is 5'10 and would be vastly overpaid.

I think in a nutshell if you just ignore the cap/tax completely it's a decent trade, but I think we'd be very exposed at C and get crushed on the boards. There is also far from a guarantee that we will have Biyombo next year. He is making the minimum and perhaps playing good enough that a team could offer him more than we can.

We wouldn't really have an avenue to get a decent C. There is a reason the Raptors desperately want one...even though they have Pascal, Precious, Boucher, etc.

BW, I'm just happy you haven't suggested we trade for Peotl again. Thank you for that.

In all seriousness they need to do something. I know you listen to Zach Lowe. Did you hear his podcast this week with Tim Mcmahon, where they both essentially said that JJ is GMing for his job?

That is VERY interesting. Both of those guys have sources and could be wild if true

I think it's common sense that he would be GMing for his job. I have never suggested we trade for Poeltl, just that it is probably around Ayton's value to get a cheaper quality C, a shooter or potentially young piece and a pick given they have 3 extra firsts from Atlanta.

Wait, what?

How can you say that it's common sense he's GMing for his job? I've been saying that for months and literally like virtually everyone, including yourself has told me that him and Monty are completely safe. Like it's me and Frank that have been the only guys in here complaining about those 2 for this season.

You can't seriously think that it's status quo around here to say that Monty and JJ are in jeopardy of losing their jobs?

[sunsfan1o1]

When did OG Anunoby become a superstar?
6 year pro who can’t carry his team into the playoffs and often injured, but he’s worth 3 frp.
I don’t think he’s even the 1st, 2nd or 3rd option on his own team.
I prefer Cam Johnson and Ayton.
Ujiri is about to embarrass somebody

[BobbieL]

I didn't realize the Mavs just signed DFS and he has 4 years on that contract. THJ has 3 years on his contract. Only contract that is of value for the Mavs is Christian Wood's expiring $14 million this season. Dang did they goof on building around Luka. I still could see the Raptors maybe taking THJ and his 3 year contract for GTJ if the Mavs offer a pick. If the Mavs get Lowry, that doesn't do anything to solve their problems IMO. I think their most realistic target that can really help them is GTJ and he'd be an immediate upgrade over THJ.

Also, not sure if anyone caught EJ on a podcast earlier, but he mentioned he thinks if a deal goes down it will be on the 8th when Ishba is officially the owner. He said he believes IF the Suns are already in discussion with teams about deals, that they understand what is going on and the Suns can't really make deals until then. At least that is what I gathered.

Dang -only Wood and Powell are on expirings

That is not that great in terms of the ability. Maybe the Heat take those two contracts for Lowry. Good point about GTJ - the Mavs might do that to help "My Name is Luka"

[TeamTragic]

I find it hilarious that Ayton is apparently not a good player and should be traded. Yet we should give a FRP for Tari "Jerami Grant 2.0" Eason even though we passed on Jerami Grant proper.

I think you might be misunderstanding me on this man. I'm not saying I'd like to trade Ayton or even would endorse it. But in a hypothetical premise IF WE WERE TO TRADE AYTON (which I think would be a big mistake)!! And they traded him to Houston, then Eason would absolutely have to be inclusive to the deal as the type of value I'd need to be getting back to consider trading him. In my "worst case scenario premise of trading Ayton to Houston, I had it being:

Ayton for Gordon/ Boban/Eason/ Fernando/ Houston 23' 1st.

OR
Ayton for Gordon/Eason/Porter Jr/ Fernando/ Milwaukee 23' 1st.

That wasn't directed at you GoK. I was talking to the people that hate Ayton even though without him we won't be back in the Finals.

[lilfishi22]

I didn't realize the Mavs just signed DFS and he has 4 years on that contract. THJ has 3 years on his contract. Only contract that is of value for the Mavs is Christian Wood's expiring $14 million this season. Dang did they goof on building around Luka. I still could see the Raptors maybe taking THJ and his 3 year contract for GTJ if the Mavs offer a pick. If the Mavs get Lowry, that doesn't do anything to solve their problems IMO. I think their most realistic target that can really help them is GTJ and he'd be an immediate upgrade over THJ.

Also, not sure if anyone caught EJ on a podcast earlier, but he mentioned he thinks if a deal goes down it will be on the 8th when Ishba is officially the owner. He said he believes IF the Suns are already in discussion with teams about deals, that they understand what is going on and the Suns can't really make deals until then. At least that is what I gathered.

Not going back to every single decision they've made but I feel like their mistake of maxing out KP sight unseen coming off a serious knee injury is what has put them in this predicament. They managed to offload KP which was a feat in itself and in return got one bad contract in Bertans and a Dinwiddie who's deal isn't too bad. But because of that one big failed gamble, they've had no real cap space to upgrade their roster so they do what over the cap teams do and resign their own guys. THJ has been OK in Dallas but he was suppose to be that 3rd guy behind Luka/KP and he's just not that calibre of player. He's also dealt with injury issues and signed a long term deal with them in the 2021 offseason.

Of course with what exceptions they have, they went out to sign McGee to not 1, not 2 but a 3 year deal and the guy sees most DNP's and garbage minutes. Bullock, Powell, Kleber and DFS are decent role players but I really don't think spending on average $10m a year on 4 role players is getting the most bang for your buck. You'd much rather have two of these guys (like we do with Crowder/Dario) and spend that remaining $20m on one higher tier player.