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2022-2023 Trade thread

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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#101 » by TyFrekey » Thu Feb 2, 2023 5:49 am

OxAndFox wrote:
TyFrekey wrote:
City of Trees wrote:I heard Matt Barnes during pre game talking about the possibility of moving Davion and I honestly believe Davion would welcome a trade to a team he can start on. He's never going to supplant Fox so what is the endgame for Davion on the Kings? Provide defense off the bench until it's time to hit RFA? I understand why moving Davion makes sense to some. Is Davion's value high enough to justify a trade?


I'm of the opinion that we look to move him not because I don't think he's a good player or doesn't have the potential to develop into one, but because I don't think he can develop one in his current role as mentioned before, which means I think he would be more valuable to another team than he is to us. Of course, that is predicated on other teams sharing the opinion that he has the potential to be a valuable player. He's obviously great defensively, but offensively he just doesn't match what this team needs given that Fox and Monk provide most of the playmaking from the guard position. Davion, much like Holmes, needs to be in a system where he can run pick and rolls at will, and in Davion's case use his strength of his burst of speeds to attack the rim. I actually think the two of them should be really good together if given the opportunity/time, which is why I kind of think there could be some value in trying to move them together.

Anyway, I would have to think some team out there sees value in Davion after how he ended last season offensively and his defensive reputation.


The problem with Davion is there simply aren't many teams needing a starting PG, well more to the point, Davion isn't better than them.
The teams that might be able to start him at the position would be Chicago (depends on how they view Dos/White), Dallas (Luka is the "PG" but they could work a PG into the line-up), and Clippers. I can't see any other team, right at this moment either trading their starting PG for Davion or trading for him to take over from the current starter.
It doesn't get much better when looking at the backup. Charlotte, Chicago (again depends on how they view Dos+White), Dallas, Clippers, Minnesota, New York, OKC, Toronto.


I don't think the issue is that he needs to be a starting PG, but rather he just needs to be in a role that suits his strengths given how limited he is offensively. He doesn't stretch the floor, isn't very effective in a motion offense, and doesn't really do anything without the ball in his hands. His sole use offensively is attacking the rim. He is elite at getting to the rim (though not at finishing) and if he isn't in a position to do that, he's such an offensive negative not even his defense can make up for it. So a bench role where he can be the primary ball handler 15 minutes a night is essentially the only place where I think he can be effective.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#102 » by OxAndFox » Thu Feb 2, 2023 8:00 am

TyFrekey wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
TyFrekey wrote:
I'm of the opinion that we look to move him not because I don't think he's a good player or doesn't have the potential to develop into one, but because I don't think he can develop one in his current role as mentioned before, which means I think he would be more valuable to another team than he is to us. Of course, that is predicated on other teams sharing the opinion that he has the potential to be a valuable player. He's obviously great defensively, but offensively he just doesn't match what this team needs given that Fox and Monk provide most of the playmaking from the guard position. Davion, much like Holmes, needs to be in a system where he can run pick and rolls at will, and in Davion's case use his strength of his burst of speeds to attack the rim. I actually think the two of them should be really good together if given the opportunity/time, which is why I kind of think there could be some value in trying to move them together.

Anyway, I would have to think some team out there sees value in Davion after how he ended last season offensively and his defensive reputation.


The problem with Davion is there simply aren't many teams needing a starting PG, well more to the point, Davion isn't better than them.
The teams that might be able to start him at the position would be Chicago (depends on how they view Dos/White), Dallas (Luka is the "PG" but they could work a PG into the line-up), and Clippers. I can't see any other team, right at this moment either trading their starting PG for Davion or trading for him to take over from the current starter.
It doesn't get much better when looking at the backup. Charlotte, Chicago (again depends on how they view Dos+White), Dallas, Clippers, Minnesota, New York, OKC, Toronto.


I don't think the issue is that he needs to be a starting PG, but rather he just needs to be in a role that suits his strengths given how limited he is offensively. He doesn't stretch the floor, isn't very effective in a motion offense, and doesn't really do anything without the ball in his hands. His sole use offensively is attacking the rim. He is elite at getting to the rim (though not at finishing) and if he isn't in a position to do that, he's such an offensive negative not even his defense can make up for it. So a bench role where he can be the primary ball handler 15 minutes a night is essentially the only place where I think he can be effective.

I completely agree. But for Davion, and the Kings, it still goes back to who can give him a job. I don't think there are many opportunities out there, particularly as you pointed out, he isn't someone that can fit right into any situation. It may get worse for him next year too with an influx of new PGs and some inexperienced ones may pass him.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#103 » by OGSactownballer » Thu Feb 2, 2023 4:54 pm

Davion is everything Pop loves - and gets the most out of - as a lead guard.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#104 » by BoogieTime » Fri Feb 3, 2023 5:20 am

Siakam is now available, along with OG.

not a fan of giving up a lot for players heading for UFA, which both will be at the end of next year. our starting unit is nice in terms of advanced stats, so no need to rock the boat. Also, if Siakam makes a third all-nba team he will arguably be overpaid on a Supermax if he requests one.

is there a world where the Sasha vezenkov guy in Europe makes Keegan possibly available for Pascal? Not sure Pascal fits at all with our unit as he is a minus shooter compared to our starters and will hijack some of the offense. But he might carry the unit without Domas a bit better? all predicated on word Pascal would strongly consider re-signing

just thinking out loud
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#105 » by OGSactownballer » Fri Feb 3, 2023 6:38 am

If you can get Siakam and still have Domas, Fox and Murray, you do it however you need to then pick up ring chasing vets.

Let’s not get foolish here.

The best all around player aside from Joker in the league. The best fourth quarter closer in the league. The best third wheel/all around do it all and score like crazy PF in the league. A rookie sensation who can shoot the lights out with the cold killer instinct of Duncan.

Thisnis a no brainer move. And it’s the over the top, contender for the next decade move as well.

You do this and don’t look back.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#106 » by OGSactownballer » Fri Feb 3, 2023 6:47 am

Let’s go a step further.

If you do this, it’s simply giving up the protections on the ‘24 pick to Atlanta, then packaging salary relief (Barnes, Len, TD = $27 million) and Davion (that lets them move FVV because he WORKS in their system) and fill in other expiring salary to get them off the cap locks and add the ‘26 and ‘28 unprotected picks plus one or two swaps (whatever it takes).

And again - you don’t look back.

We the. Still have:

Domas
Fox
Siakam
Murray
Huerter
Monk
Holmes
Lyles
Metu
Okpala
Queta
Delly

You go make a deal with seconds and pieces needed to get a Thybulle and or Crowder to solidify the D.

And you roll and are in contention for the foreseeable future.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#107 » by City of Trees » Fri Feb 3, 2023 5:22 pm

OGSactownballer wrote:If you can get Siakam and still have Domas, Fox and Murray, you do it however you need to then pick up ring chasing vets.

Let’s not get foolish here.

The best all around player aside from Joker in the league. The best fourth quarter closer in the league. The best third wheel/all around do it all and score like crazy PF in the league. A rookie sensation who can shoot the lights out with the cold killer instinct of Duncan.

Thisnis a no brainer move. And it’s the over the top, contender for the next decade move as well.

You do this and don’t look back.


Fox, Murray, Siakam, Sabonis is a contending core. My concern is Siakam will be 30 years old hitting UFA looking for possibly the supermax at the same time Sabonis is hitting UFA. Kings risk exposure would be off the charts.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#108 » by LightTheBeam » Fri Feb 3, 2023 6:26 pm

OGSactownballer wrote:Davion is everything Pop loves - and gets the most out of - as a lead guard.


I agree this is the location for him. Tre Jones has played well, but I think Mitchell is overall better, and with Pop he could turn him into something.

I kinda like Holmes + Davion + 2nds for Richardson. Kings move Monk to the point, and have a decent size guard/wing who plays defense and shoots 3s.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#109 » by BoogieTime » Fri Feb 3, 2023 6:39 pm

what's becoming an underreported element of the domas/hali trade is hield, who is actually shooting better than Huerter now for the year, more boards, a tick below in assists.

I still dont like him personally, and think Huerter is the headier player, but was this a minus giving him up and giving up a first for Huerter?
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#110 » by LightTheBeam » Fri Feb 3, 2023 6:55 pm

Just posted this on the trade board. I don't see Sac making a Siakam level move, it would probably have to include Murray. Team is playing well, that's a move you explore this summer IMO when our 2023 pick is moveable.

Kings out: Davion, Holmes, Len, 2nds (as you see fit)
Kings in: Plumlee, Richardson

Charlotte out: Plumlee
Charlotte in: Alex Len, 2nd(s)?

Spurs out: Richardson
Spurs in: Holmes, Mitchell, 2nd?

Gives Sac a bench of Monk - Davis - Richardson - Lyles - Plumlee. We run the same offense as the starting lineup with Monk as the scoring guard, and Plumlee facilitating. We gain much better size, and add more shooting.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#111 » by Kabaum » Fri Feb 3, 2023 6:59 pm

BoogieTime wrote:what's becoming an underreported element of the domas/hali trade is hield, who is actually shooting better than Huerter now for the year, more boards, a tick below in assists.

I still dont like him personally, and think Huerter is the headier player, but was this a minus giving him up and giving up a first for Huerter?


Big Buddy fan but maybe a change of scenery was what he needed too. He seemed to always want be more than what his best role is and dribbled way too much in my opinion. Huerter is much taller, age is aligned with our team and the passing doesnt stop with him like it did with Heild. Its one of those rare trades that worked out for everyone and I have no regrets handing over that 1st for Huerter.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#112 » by City of Trees » Fri Feb 3, 2023 7:47 pm

BoogieTime wrote:what's becoming an underreported element of the domas/hali trade is hield, who is actually shooting better than Huerter now for the year, more boards, a tick below in assists.

I still dont like him personally, and think Huerter is the headier player, but was this a minus giving him up and giving up a first for Huerter?
My take is the relationship was unsalvageable because of the KANGZ era. Buddy essentially stopped playing team ball which tanked his value. I think the Kings played it right paying slightly less than market value for Huerter.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#113 » by OxAndFox » Fri Feb 3, 2023 9:11 pm

LightTheBeam wrote:Just posted this on the trade board. I don't see Sac making a Siakam level move, it would probably have to include Murray. Team is playing well, that's a move you explore this summer IMO when our 2023 pick is moveable.

Kings out: Davion, Holmes, Len, 2nds (as you see fit)
Kings in: Plumlee, Richardson

Charlotte out: Plumlee
Charlotte in: Alex Len, 2nd(s)?

Spurs out: Richardson
Spurs in: Holmes, Mitchell, 2nd?

Gives Sac a bench of Monk - Davis - Richardson - Lyles - Plumlee. We run the same offense as the starting lineup with Monk as the scoring guard, and Plumlee facilitating. We gain much better size, and add more shooting.


I like the idea of having Plumlee on board for the 2nd unit. As you say we can play the same system. The only pause I have with this is when Monk gets into his turnover going for too many wild passes mode who is the player to calm things down?
I don't think you can just push Fox back out there. Can Richardson take up the slack in this regard?
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#114 » by LightTheBeam » Fri Feb 3, 2023 9:26 pm

OxAndFox wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:Just posted this on the trade board. I don't see Sac making a Siakam level move, it would probably have to include Murray. Team is playing well, that's a move you explore this summer IMO when our 2023 pick is moveable.

Kings out: Davion, Holmes, Len, 2nds (as you see fit)
Kings in: Plumlee, Richardson

Charlotte out: Plumlee
Charlotte in: Alex Len, 2nd(s)?

Spurs out: Richardson
Spurs in: Holmes, Mitchell, 2nd?

Gives Sac a bench of Monk - Davis - Richardson - Lyles - Plumlee. We run the same offense as the starting lineup with Monk as the scoring guard, and Plumlee facilitating. We gain much better size, and add more shooting.


I like the idea of having Plumlee on board for the 2nd unit. As you say we can play the same system. The only pause I have with this is when Monk gets into his turnover going for too many wild passes mode who is the player to calm things down?
I don't think you can just push Fox back out there. Can Richardson take up the slack in this regard?


I think its a team effort. Monk, Richardson, Plumlee, some Davis, and its likely Sabonis/Fox still take turns with the bench. We might not have a traditional point guard, but thats plenty of guys who can facilitate a bit. Richardson averages 3assists and had a season in Miami where he averaged 4.

Think of it as Fox still goes out at the 6 minute mark for Monk. At which point Sabonis is running the offense. At the 2 minute mark, Fox, Richardson, Plumlee, Lyles all check in to go with Monk. At all times he's still in the game with one of Fox/Sabonis.

Fox - Huerter - Barnes - Murray - Sabonis
Monk - Huerter - Barnes - Murray - Sabonis
Fox - Monk - Richardson - Lyles - Plumlee

Would be the 3 variations of lineups we run the most. That's a damn solid 9 man rotation come playoff time. Davis plays when we have an injury, or those games where Monk isn't playing that great he gets burn with the Fox + bench lineup.

I agree we probably need to find a 3rd string point guard for games where Fox is out. You probably don't want Monk playing this role for 30mpg like you could expect from Davion when Fox is out. Maybe we can take Neto into our TPE now that Rubio is back?
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#115 » by OxAndFox » Fri Feb 3, 2023 9:53 pm

We have been thinking about getting protections lifted on the '24 pick to allow for more picks in trades, but let's go the other way.
At this stage, the Kings should be doing everything they can to alleviate that '24 pick in any way possible without affecting the core. This is to get in the upcoming KD sweepstakes.
If KD asks out after this season, how many teams have a better outlook than the Kings all things considered?
The #2 and #3 are already in position. There are tradeable players on the roster, Huerter, Monk, Davion and Murray.

Something like this to get back into the 2024 draft?
Miami can't trade multiple 1sts, but can trade their '23 1st.
Holmes/TD for Robinson/'23 1st
Saves the Heat a ton of money. Sac gets a 1st to use in another trade. Could become a 3 teamer to get Holmes onto Charlotte or someone like that.

Trade with Memphis:
'23 Mia 1st/'23 Ind 2nd/'24 Dal 2nd for '24 GS 1st
Gets Memphis an earlier 1st along with some 2nds. Question is, does Memphis think GS could falter in 2024 and becomes a lottery pick (protected 1-4). Current Miami pick is #21. Probably is #23-25.
The Warriors could also bounce back from injuries and be up near the top.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#116 » by BoogieTime » Sat Feb 4, 2023 2:19 am

Way to make up for Fox's absence Mitchell with a -19 1/5 from the field effort...

hes toast as far as im concerned. His situational defense doesn't make up for his lack of game all the way around. he needs a change of scenery.

I'm almost on board with moving Keegan in a deal for a star, like Siakam, if Pascal feels comfortable about re-upping. Wouldnt add any picks. I think we might bring over Sasha Vezenkov who will stretch the floor like Keegan from that 4 position and actually rebound a bit.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#117 » by OxAndFox » Sat Feb 4, 2023 9:08 am

BoogieTime wrote:Way to make up for Fox's absence Mitchell with a -19 1/5 from the field effort...

hes toast as far as im concerned. His situational defense doesn't make up for his lack of game all the way around. he needs a change of scenery.

I'm almost on board with moving Keegan in a deal for a star, like Siakam, if Pascal feels comfortable about re-upping. Wouldnt add any picks. I think we might bring over Sasha Vezenkov who will stretch the floor like Keegan from that 4 position and actually rebound a bit.


Agree with Davion. Disagree with the Keegan part (surprise I know).

How are you getting to at least $27.5m salary? That means Barnes is included as well, otherwise, you're sending out Keegan/Holmes/TD/Davion and that's a 4-for-1 deal, which when you add more Raptors we need more salary.

Secondly I don't think Siakam fits this team that well. Would he get his stats? Sure he would, he's an absolute monster. He gets his inside and overall is a poor 3pt shooter. That means we are putting a lot more pressure on Huerter and Barnes outside and no space for Sabonis/Fox.
Pascal isn't a great rebounder either. I mean he isn't much better than Keegan, who is playing SF/PF and not C/PF like Pascal.
Last month Keegan was 5.9 (32.2mpg) versus 7.3 (38.8mpg). Per 36 on the season has them at 5.5 vs 7.7 respectively. Hardly a massive difference. Pascal leads the Raptors in rebounds too so it's not like he has a vaccum like Sabonis playing next to him.
I'm not saying Keegan for Siakam wouldn't improve this team, it absolutely would just on talent alone, but it's not as clear cut.
Stick with the shooters. They will go on run and hot streaks,
Keegan will improve, this might just be another run where he struggles and the AS break can't come quick enough for not only him, but most of this squad. All of them have had their little funks.
He is now playing without the strapping. It will take a couple of games and he will be back shooting 40% for the month, or maybe almost 50% like he did in February.
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#118 » by BoogieTime » Sat Feb 4, 2023 6:12 pm

OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Way to make up for Fox's absence Mitchell with a -19 1/5 from the field effort...

hes toast as far as im concerned. His situational defense doesn't make up for his lack of game all the way around. he needs a change of scenery.

I'm almost on board with moving Keegan in a deal for a star, like Siakam, if Pascal feels comfortable about re-upping. Wouldnt add any picks. I think we might bring over Sasha Vezenkov who will stretch the floor like Keegan from that 4 position and actually rebound a bit.


Agree with Davion. Disagree with the Keegan part (surprise I know).

How are you getting to at least $27.5m salary? That means Barnes is included as well, otherwise, you're sending out Keegan/Holmes/TD/Davion and that's a 4-for-1 deal, which when you add more Raptors we need more salary.

Secondly I don't think Siakam fits this team that well. Would he get his stats? Sure he would, he's an absolute monster. He gets his inside and overall is a poor 3pt shooter. That means we are putting a lot more pressure on Huerter and Barnes outside and no space for Sabonis/Fox.
Pascal isn't a great rebounder either. I mean he isn't much better than Keegan, who is playing SF/PF and not C/PF like Pascal.
Last month Keegan was 5.9 (32.2mpg) versus 7.3 (38.8mpg). Per 36 on the season has them at 5.5 vs 7.7 respectively. Hardly a massive difference. Pascal leads the Raptors in rebounds too so it's not like he has a vaccum like Sabonis playing next to him.
I'm not saying Keegan for Siakam wouldn't improve this team, it absolutely would just on talent alone, but it's not as clear cut.
Stick with the shooters. They will go on run and hot streaks,
Keegan will improve, this might just be another run where he struggles and the AS break can't come quick enough for not only him, but most of this squad. All of them have had their little funks.
He is now playing without the strapping. It will take a couple of games and he will be back shooting 40% for the month, or maybe almost 50% like he did in February.


Keegan is a hell of a shooter, and so seems to be this guy.

Read on Twitter


who may be open to joining the team soon. I was never on the Giles hype train when news of his practices were being circulated almost intentionally, but this guy feels like more of a pro. I guess it depends on how much creedence you give this euro prospect, and how you feel Keegan can potentially be a SF
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#119 » by LightTheBeam » Sat Feb 4, 2023 6:59 pm

Realistically Vezenkov shouldn't be relied upon to come in and be a starter. He's not playing nba competition. I view him as more of a lyles replacement
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Re: 2022-2023 Trade thread 

Post#120 » by OxAndFox » Sat Feb 4, 2023 7:33 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Way to make up for Fox's absence Mitchell with a -19 1/5 from the field effort...

hes toast as far as im concerned. His situational defense doesn't make up for his lack of game all the way around. he needs a change of scenery.

I'm almost on board with moving Keegan in a deal for a star, like Siakam, if Pascal feels comfortable about re-upping. Wouldnt add any picks. I think we might bring over Sasha Vezenkov who will stretch the floor like Keegan from that 4 position and actually rebound a bit.


Agree with Davion. Disagree with the Keegan part (surprise I know).

How are you getting to at least $27.5m salary? That means Barnes is included as well, otherwise, you're sending out Keegan/Holmes/TD/Davion and that's a 4-for-1 deal, which when you add more Raptors we need more salary.

Secondly I don't think Siakam fits this team that well. Would he get his stats? Sure he would, he's an absolute monster. He gets his inside and overall is a poor 3pt shooter. That means we are putting a lot more pressure on Huerter and Barnes outside and no space for Sabonis/Fox.
Pascal isn't a great rebounder either. I mean he isn't much better than Keegan, who is playing SF/PF and not C/PF like Pascal.
Last month Keegan was 5.9 (32.2mpg) versus 7.3 (38.8mpg). Per 36 on the season has them at 5.5 vs 7.7 respectively. Hardly a massive difference. Pascal leads the Raptors in rebounds too so it's not like he has a vaccum like Sabonis playing next to him.
I'm not saying Keegan for Siakam wouldn't improve this team, it absolutely would just on talent alone, but it's not as clear cut.
Stick with the shooters. They will go on run and hot streaks,
Keegan will improve, this might just be another run where he struggles and the AS break can't come quick enough for not only him, but most of this squad. All of them have had their little funks.
He is now playing without the strapping. It will take a couple of games and he will be back shooting 40% for the month, or maybe almost 50% like he did in February.


Keegan is a hell of a shooter, and so seems to be this guy.

Read on Twitter


who may be open to joining the team soon. I was never on the Giles hype train when news of his practices were being circulated almost intentionally, but this guy feels like more of a pro. I guess it depends on how much creedence you give this euro prospect, and how you feel Keegan can potentially be a SF

I think the hope would be to add Vezenkov to Murray/Barnes. Have him coming off the bench but playing decent minutes.
Hopefully, the Kings sign Lyles/Barnes and perhaps go after a backup PG in FA. Draft wise I would love Rayan Rupert, but he is going to move up mock drafts and will be a top 10 pick.

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